For any CAF posters who have attended prayers/services in a mosque:

[Jay53]

Have you EVER heard an anti-Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist etc. or anti-American/Israeli/European/Asian etc. message? If so, who gave the message, what was the nature/content of the message and how did the “congregation” respond?

Thank you.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I have attended prayers and services and various functions at mosques for a couple years now.

And I have never heard anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Hindu, or anti-Buddhist rhetoric. And I have not heard anti-American, anti-European, anti-Asian rhetoric in a mosque. I haven’t even heard anything I would classify as anti-Israeli rhetoric.

Especially during a prayer service.

What I have heard is criticism of some American and Israeli policies which are directed against Muslims, and usually that comes up during a “current affairs” short talk after the prayer. (After some of the prayers, sometimes a person from the community makes a short talk, and there is one brother here who will each week–thursday nights–give the people who have come to pray a brief overview of what events have been in the news.)

A few summers ago, when Israel invaded Lebanon, for instance, we heard a lot about Lebanon, a lot about Israel, and a lot about Hezbollah (and criticism of all these, plus the American position regarding the war.) I wouldn’t consider it to be anti-Israeli or anti-American or anti-Lebanese, but mostly an attempt to present the facts of the matter to the community–and frankly, not everything that everyone does is always deserving of full support.

More recently, we hear a lot about Pakistan and India, due to the bombings in Mumbai (which perhaps I should mention, that I utterly condemn.)

I’m not aware of any particular response–maybe some people talk to the speaker afterwards. Usually people stay quiet to listen or they leave. And there typically aren’t more than 75 people there on Thursday nights anyway.

I don’t hear any bashing like I think your post here has suggested. But you will find, at least in my community, Muslims to be openly critical of certain policies which are in violation of local and international laws.

 

[R_not]

I have attended prayers and services and various functions at mosques for a couple years now.

And I have never heard anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Hindu, or anti-Buddhist rhetoric. And I have not heard anti-American, anti-European, anti-Asian rhetoric in a mosque. I haven’t even heard anything I would classify as anti-Israeli rhetoric.

Especially during a prayer service.

What I have heard is criticism of some American and Israeli policies which are directed against Muslims, and usually that comes up during a “current affairs” short talk after the prayer. (After some of the prayers, sometimes a person from the community makes a short talk, and there is one brother here who will each week–thursday nights–give the people who have come to pray a brief overview of what events have been in the news.)

A few summers ago, when Israel invaded Lebanon, for instance, we heard a lot about Lebanon, a lot about Israel, and a lot about Hezbollah (and criticism of all these, plus the American position regarding the war.) I wouldn’t consider it to be anti-Israeli or anti-American or anti-Lebanese, but mostly an attempt to present the facts of the matter to the community–and frankly, not everything that everyone does is always deserving of full support.

More recently, we hear a lot about Pakistan and India, due to the bombings in Mumbai (which perhaps I should mention, that I utterly condemn.)

I’m not aware of any particular response–maybe some people talk to the speaker afterwards. Usually people stay quiet to listen or they leave. And there typically aren’t more than 75 people there on Thursday nights anyway.

I don’t hear any bashing like I think your post here has suggested. But you will find, at least in my community, Muslims to be openly critical of certain policies which are in violation of local and international laws.

So, they are critical of muslim nations too? Not one of them are signed up to stop the abuses of women in those countries. Or how about when Israel attacked Lebanon - how many bombs must the muslims from Lebanon lob at israel before they are allowed to protect their own people? Never? You probably really don’t hear the truth though.

**The conflict began when Hizbollah militants crossed into the Israeli territory and attacked Israeli forces. Israel responded by launching massive air strikes and combat operations in Southern Lebanon.

The hostilities on the Israeli-Lebanese border started on 12 July, 2006 when Hizbollah, launched several rockets towards Israel’s territory, crossed the border into Israel and attacked an Israeli patrol, capturing two soldiers, and killing three (UNIFIL). In response to the attack, Israel launched a number of artillery and air strikes on targets across southern Lebanon, destroying bridges, highways, and airports. Hizbollah responded by launching rockets against northern Israeli cities and Israel followed with a full ground offensive of southern Lebanon (“The Israel-Lebanon Crisis”).

**

Who was the aggressor in this instance? And did your sheikh sort of forget to mention that the muslims were the instigators to this war?

This gets very old - this claim that the muslims were the victims. In fact, they were so cruel they would lob bombs from places where children resided and then run knowing the strikes would strike the place they lobbed the missiles from. The muslims would come back and take the dead children and parade them through the streets using them as pure propaganda against Israel.

 

[R_not]

I would not step one foot into their dens. And I don’t need to in order to know that when a non-muslim goes into one the tenor of their rhetoric would change. And not all mosques are doing such things - but too many are indeed preaching hatred. They have found it in some mosques in Virginia, L.A., Florida, and elsewhere.

‘moderate’ Sheik yusuf Al-Qaradawi preaching jihad in America (and it ain’t that ‘inner struggle’ kind!)

and another example:

I just got this in my email box from Walid Shoebat (I am signed on to receive his notices). He has just had a former American muslim join his group who lived in Michigan. This man, Zakaryia Ezzat, is backing up the sort of stuff taught/preached in mosques in our country. They spout this stuff then walk out and tell us a different story of what is going on. Well, read for yourself and listen to the radio show if you want:
Zakaryia Ezzat a former American Muslim born in Michigan of a Muslim father and Christian mother joins The Walid Shoebat Foundation and he has made his first national radio appearance this evening on the Laurie Roth Show. To listen to his first interview www.therothshow.com look for show archives link Dec 17th show, 2nd hour and you can hear the full interview. In the interview Zak exposes the shocking truth about how each mosque he attended in America, about 20 which he personally attended over his lifetime as a Muslim all preached hatred of Jews, Israel and America. We will be posting Zak’s written testimony on the Shoebat Website shortly and will advise when it is up. Since Zak is still in College he has committed to help us get more speaking engagements on University Campuses as well as organize PR on the Campus for each event. We appreciate Zak’s courage and commitment to help in the fight to preserve our freedoms here in America as well as supporting Israel in its fight for its existance.

 

[Sister_Amy]

So, they are critical of muslim nations too? Not one of them are signed up to stop the abuses of women in those countries. Or how about when Israel attacked Lebanon - how many bombs must the muslims from Lebanon lob at israel before they are allowed to protect their own people? Never? You probably really don’t hear the truth though.

**The conflict began when Hizbollah militants crossed into the Israeli territory and attacked Israeli forces. Israel responded by launching massive air strikes and combat operations in Southern Lebanon.

The hostilities on the Israeli-Lebanese border started on 12 July, 2006 when Hizbollah, launched several rockets towards Israel’s territory, crossed the border into Israel and attacked an Israeli patrol, capturing two soldiers, and killing three (UNIFIL). In response to the attack, Israel launched a number of artillery and air strikes on targets across southern Lebanon, destroying bridges, highways, and airports. Hizbollah responded by launching rockets against northern Israeli cities and Israel followed with a full ground offensive of southern Lebanon (“The Israel-Lebanon Crisis”).

**

Who was the aggressor in this instance? And did your sheikh sort of forget to mention that the muslims were the instigators to this war?

This gets very old - this claim that the muslims were the victims. In fact, they were so cruel they would lob bombs from places where children resided and then run knowing the strikes would strike the place they lobbed the missiles from. The muslims would come back and take the dead children and parade them through the streets using them as pure propaganda against Israel.

Of course Muslim nations are criticized, too. Lebanon was criticized, Hezbollah was criticized too. Pakistan has been criticized and Egypt and plenty of Muslim nations.

 

[R_not]

Of course Muslim nations are criticized, too. Lebanon was criticized, Hezbollah was criticized too. Pakistan has been criticized and Egypt and plenty of Muslim nations.

thanks, they should not only be criticized but held to some sort of justice for starting the stuff they start in the middle east.

But, thanks for your response back.

 

[Jay53]

Bump

Should I take from the lack of reply (other than from Sister Amy ) that a.) no one else has attended a mosque or b.) that no one will actually admit to having heard any anti-? rhetoric inside one?

(I have just heard/read that hate speech is being taught inside mosques. I just figured I would go to the “source” (people who have been to mosques) and ask if this is true. )

 

[yellowbicycle]

I’ve been to mosque with my Muslim friend and her mother.
There was hate speech from the speaker and from some of the people there. Then again, the speaker wasn’t the…I know I’ll spell this one wrong…Imam of that particular mosque. He was a guest from Saudi. I can’t recall his name. And I guess we were the only dummies who didn’t know what sort of things he was going to say.
We stayed for fifteen minutes, thinking it would get better. It didn’t. My friend was SO embarrassed and apologized profusely.
We went back to her mom’s house and had fried okra and tabouli. All was forgiven.
Oh yeah, and when we got back to the house, her dad had just gotten home from work. They told him who we had gone to see and he said ‘Why on earth would you listen to him? You know he just spews hate, right?’ Uh, yeah, that info would have been helpful earlier, thanks.

 

[Jay53]

Uh, yeah, that info would have been helpful earlier, thanks.

Thank you, yellowbicycle! I wasn’t sure anyone else would reply.

For everyone, I’m also getting the impression that Saudi Arabia is the worst place to be for Islam - i.e. it follows the Quran most literally and is the most oppressive, especially towards women and is the most violent. Is this the case?

 

[yellowbicycle]

Thank you, yellowbicycle! I wasn’t sure anyone else would reply.

For everyone, I’m also getting the impression that Saudi Arabia is the worst place to be for Islam - i.e. it follows the Quran most literally and is the most oppressive, especially towards women and is the most violent. Is this the case?

This is only anecdotal, but I will say that my Muslim friend live in Saudi and she hates it. She said she was a better Muslim in American than she could ever be in Saudi. Interesting, huh? And she actually believes that Saudi follows the Quran LEAST faithfully to the letter. She says they just make things up and then say that it has to be done that way because the Quran says so. I won’t go into the details of her life story, but women are not valued or respected there, particularly the house help women - the nannies and housekeepers and the such. They are treated badly because they are women, and because they are not Saudi, many are from Malaysia or other countries. They are treated in some cases very nearly like slaves.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Jay, why don’t you try attending a mosque service yourself, just to see? Most likely you’ll be very welcome.

You’ll hear people praising God, thanking God, seeking forgiveness from God, reminding others to pray, to give in charity, to be good to their parents…

In fact, my sheikh’s khutbahs (Friday sermons) are published online in English, if you want to read through them. We have visiting speakers sometimes, and the sheikh has so many khutbahs that he kind of recycles them. But they’re online, you can visit this page to see a list: islam1.org/khutub/index.html

 

[morning_star777]

After 9/11 when USA attacked Afghanistan then many mosques in my area openly cursed USA and Israel.But perhaps famous mosques(like Baitul Mukarram in Dhaka and some others) did not curse during prayer because many journalists attend to those mosques and it is hard to curse other people in front of secular Journalist(Secular but not non religious)who sometimes join in prayers.But Joy I think you should attend in a mosque then you will know.In front of you they will not curse anyone if you are non muslim. Actually central mosques do not curse because it will destroy their reputation but other always cursed during that war time.But I went mosque at least 5 years ago for some formality so I do not have any recent experience.Perhaps Sam can give us current information because he is from SA.thanks and God bless you.

 

[meedo]

Have you EVER heard an anti-Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist etc. or anti-American/Israeli/European/Asian etc. message? If so, who gave the message, what was the nature/content of the message and how did the “congregation” respond?

Thank you.

hi,

I am a muslim from Egypt. There is no hate preached from Mosques . But rthere is harsh criticism for America and Israel foreign policies and practicies. ofcourse when israel declares itself the jewish state that doesnt help , as well as opur country has experience with teh british and the french in their capacity as colonialist also promoted christianity and suppressed islam .

The harsh criticism against America and israel is mainly due to the arab history with both of them . which has been ( at least from the ordinary citizen point of view) negative.

The grieviances are mainly as follows :

1- unfair and biased foreign policy towards Israel than the palestinians

2- Suppoort for dictatorships as long as they do teh american bidding , supressing democracy if it happen to bring non obedient government

it is worthy of saying that these two issues ( or at least the first one) were noted by american deplomats lomng time ago. Even befroe teh establsihment of teh state of israel over palestinian land. So it isnt that americans in positions of pweor dont know them .

i hope i clarified a bit

best regards,

meedo

 

[Jay53]

Thank you everyone for your nice posts. I must say I find these forums very informative!

I appreciate the invitation to a mosque. I’m not sure I ever will visit one ?? I’m not sure I can look past the extreme differences in faith - I just can’t accept that Muhammad is anything other than at best a misguided man and that Islam denies the divinity of Jesus, my Savior. My view of mosques here is also tainted by the fact that one of the head imams was deported because of terrorist ties:

During his time as an Imam in Cleveland, Damra raised funds for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad through the Islamic Committee for Palestine (ICP), an organization headed by Sami Al-Arian. In 1989, at the 2nd Annual ICP conference in Chicago, speaking on a panel with the spiritual leader of PIJ, Damra stated:
The first principle is that terrorism, and terrorism alone, is the path to liberation. This has its point of departure God, the Great and Almighty’s, words: “And make for them whatever you can of fighting men and horses, to terrify thereby the enemies of God and your enemy.” The second principle is that “settlement is decided by the sword.” That which finalizes the matter - struggle for the cause of Palestine - is the military solution.
…
My intent was that, if what they mean by jihad is terrorism, then we are terrorists!

(This was from a news story on Fawaz Damra, the Imam for the Islamic Center in Cleveland)

But I do appreciate the invitation. So far everyone here seems to be very charitable. I, personally, don’t have a problem with Muslims or even Muslims peacefully practicing their faith. My 2 biggest issues with Islam are shariah law and its oppression of people, especially women, along with the attempt to bring that nonsense to America and the fact that SOME Muslims are interpreting the Quran to try to convert everyone to Islam, by force if necessary. Even if that is not what the correct interpretation is, there are too many Muslims interpreting it that way and becoming “suicide bombers”. There has to be a really strong influence convincing these people to become “martyrs” for their faith to actually counteract the basic human desire to stay alive. It’s the whole by force or pay a subjugation tax that I have a problem with.

At the end of the day, I truly believe that all us want the same thing - to be in heaven with God, we just have differing views of how to get there.

Sister Amy, thank you for the links. It will take me a while to read all of them. I read one and have a couple questions, but I will put that in another post.

BTW: YAY! I figured out how to do the attachments - thanks to my wonderful husband!!!

 

[Jay53]

Sister Amy,

Here are my questions and the “sermon” they came from:
(Here I will again attempt to utilize my new-found information on attaching files. )

The Relationship Between Muslims and Non-Muslims
(Friday speech delivered by Imam Mohamed Baianonie at the Islamic Center of Raleigh, NC on March 29, 2002)

Regarding the goal of Islam:
It is, “To convey the message of Islam to all people, to deliver it freely, to insure the freedom of religious beliefs, and to establish justice on earth within the system of Islam.”

What does this mean with reference to the bolded part?

• Offering condolences when they are struck by any disaster, tragedy, or death. But, do not ask for Allah’s mercy on their death.
Why can someone not ask for mercy for someone who has just died? I would think that would be charitable.

 

[estesbob]

Have you EVER heard an anti-Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist etc. or anti-American/Israeli/European/Asian etc. message? If so, who gave the message, what was the nature/content of the message and how did the “congregation” respond?

Thank you.

No.

 

[Sister_Amy]

The Relationship Between Muslims and Non-Muslims
(Friday speech delivered by Imam Mohamed Baianonie at the Islamic Center of Raleigh, NC on March 29, 2002)

Regarding the goal of Islam:
It is, “To convey the message of Islam to all people, to deliver it freely, to insure the freedom of religious beliefs, and to establish justice on earth within the system of Islam.”

What does this mean with reference to the bolded part?

• Offering condolences when they are struck by any disaster, tragedy, or death. But, do not ask for Allah’s mercy on their death.
Why can someone not ask for mercy for someone who has just died? I would think that would be charitable.

Establish justice on earth within the system of Islam, as being a goal of Islam, means that Islam is not complete without its full implementation. You see, Islam is neither an exclusively spiritual tradition, nor an exclusively legal tradition. It’s both. Spiritual, and legal.

The spiritual aspects are pretty simple–you pray, for instance, and remember God. But the legislation is also important, for the health of the overall society instead of just the individual. So to say that justice needs to be established within the system of Islam is to say that a complete Islamic government needs to be established.

And about offering condolences vs. asking for mercy–indeed, it seems like it would be charitable. But there are strong proofs in Islam against it. And why? That is the command from Allah. I can’t tell you that I know the explanation of it, but I do believe that it is from Allah, and that He knows better the reason why.

 

[jastor]

Have you EVER heard an anti-Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist etc. or anti-American/Israeli/European/Asian etc. message? If so, who gave the message, what was the nature/content of the message and how did the “congregation” respond?

Thank you.

no.

 

[Jay53]

The spiritual aspects are pretty simple–you pray, for instance, and remember God. But the legislation is also important, for the health of the overall society instead of just the individual. So to say that justice needs to be established within the system of Islam is to say that a complete Islamic government needs to be established.

My interpretation then of this is that some of the posters here are correct and that the goal of Islam is to take over our country and install and implement an Islamic government!!!

 

[Booklover]

Jay53:
My interpretation then of this is that some of the posters here are correct and that the goal of Islam is to take over our country and install and implement an Islamic government!!!

That’s exactly what they want! They want to take us back to live by the barbaric, ignorant and superstitious beliefs of the Arab bedouins of the 7th century and bring back all the horrors of hand cuttings, beheadings, flogging and stonings, pedophilia and so on.

Vickie