For Catholics who seem to hate the word "Allah"...

[Reuben_J]

This actually this thread is going the way it should. Now I am not urging us to use “Allah” (that misses the point), and I’m glad you don’t have a problem with the term itself, but there are many here who don’t understand and are prejudice. It isn’t bigotry to say Islam is wrong, you are correct, but it is both bigotry and ignorant to say Muslims are pagans and that Islam is a Pagan Religion, as someone did earlier here.

OK. Basically your premises here is, “simply urging Christians against having such negative feelings towards that word;” quoting your earlier post. I think that is valid but I observe that the responses here are not so much about having negative feeling about the word but rather trying to explain that we should not go into syncretism especially when it is not needed. Thus the argument has been poorly relevant to what you want.

I thought a poster was only quoting Paul with regards to the insinuation of the religion being ‘pagan’. Generally speaking today this is quite right though wrong in the actual definition of pagan. But right in the sense that it is often to mean being infidels and refer to unbelievers in our context being Christians. We as Catholics have been taught to be politically correct and respectful to other religions but the truth is we don’t believe in them and view them as wrong.

The idea of this thread is not to tolerate Islam and say that it is “Truth”, not at all, but the issue I am addressing here is people’s misconception. People say “Allah” refers to a different God, even a pagan one, but that is wrong. People say Islam and Christianity worship different Gods, but the Vatican says differently. There I’d one view that is correct, and one that is wrong, but we can’t say they are looking at two completely different things.

I have not seen someone saying ‘Allah’ is a different God. It merely means God in Arabic. In some discussions there are Christian who argue that the Islamic’s god is a different god as a point of argument in that this god is nothing like the Christian God. But we are not discussing this, are we?

Islam is wrong because it describes God very incorrectly, among other reasons, and that is the issue to tackle, views of the One True God. We can start this process by being more accepting of the term Allah and that we are not worshiping different deities, thereby opening a channel in which the Gospel my flow.

Let me say this. There is no problem on the term Allah. This has been used by the Arabs and Arab/Semite speaking Christians. It is just a word in different language. You bringing this subject in an English forum should expect some raised eyebrows and why it is so. If you want to talk about Catholics’ view of Islam, then issue like CCC 841 or why the Church takes on the position that Muslims are worshipping the same God as us would be more appropriate.

No, it is not that you should not start this thread but it is probably much ado about nothing. And the reactions you get are not what you want.

 

[Reuben_J]

I just responded in another thread and realize this after noticing the style of the English translation of the Quran. Allah is being used when the Quran is translated in English instead of God. One may wonder why.

eg. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Qur’an, 4:157-158, Yusuf Ali)

It is clear that Allah is always associated with Islam especially in the English speaking-world, its being an Arabic language notwithstanding. I don’t think it is wise for Christians to adopt this style too when speaking in English and drop the word ‘God’.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

OK. Basically your premises here is, “simply urging Christians against having such negative feelings towards that word;” quoting your earlier post. I think that is valid but I observe that the responses here are not so much about having negative feeling about the word but rather trying to explain that we should not go into syncretism especially when it is not needed. Thus the argument has been poorly relevant to what you want.
I thought a poster was only quoting Paul with regards to the insinuation of the religion being ‘pagan’. Generally speaking today this is quite right though wrong in the actual definition of pagan. But right in the sense that it is often to mean being infidels and refer to unbelievers in our context being Christians. We as Catholics have been taught to be politically correct and respectful to other religions but the truth is we don’t believe in them and view them as wrong.
I have not seen someone saying ‘Allah’ is a different God. It merely means God in Arabic. In some discussions there are Christian who argue that the Islamic’s god is a different god as a point of argument in that this god is nothing like the Christian God. But we are not discussing this, are we?
Let me say this. There is no problem on the term Allah. This has been used by the Arabs and Arab/Semite speaking Christians. It is just a word in different language. You bringing this subject in an English forum should expect some raised eyebrows and why it is so. If you want to talk about Catholics’ view of Islam, then issue like CCC 841 or why the Church takes on the position that Muslims are worshipping the same God as us would be more appropriate.
No, it is not that you should not start this thread but it is probably much ado about nothing. And the reactions you get are not what you want.

Well I was asked earlier by someone, “You would never see St. Paul saying ‘oh I must be loving so I’ll do a pagan orgies’,” and, “Why would you want to act like a pagan when you have the true God,” demonstrating that even if negative feelings towards the word ‘Allah’ isn’t widely hated or misunderstood, there are some blokes who clearly have their minds misdirected in judging Islam. Someone else here even said, “It doesn’t make any sense to me for Catholics to refer to God as Allah,” another disconnect that would potentially break Catholic/Muslim dialogue.

And the only reason why this thread was started was because I enthusiastically announced that I was going to start praying the Tasbih (in so far as I aligned it with Truth), then suddenly I was attacked and one of the main issues was with “Allah”, so I felt the need to start defending that word a bit.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I just responded in another thread and realize this after noticing the style of the English translation of the Quran. Allah is being used when the Quran is translated in English instead of God. One may wonder why.

eg. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”—but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not—nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Qur’an, 4:157-158, Yusuf Ali)

It is clear that Allah is always associated with Islam especially in the English speaking-world, its being an Arabic language notwithstanding. I don’t think it is wise for Christians to adopt this style too when speaking in English and drop the word ‘God’.

Well when Muslims convert to Christianity in Arabic speaking regions and it has at least
a little to do with something about Arabic speaking Catholics saying Allah, I think that is
very wise and worth it. I will bring it up again: 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

 

[Reuben_J]

Well I was asked earlier by someone, “You would never see St. Paul saying ‘oh I must be loving so I’ll do a pagan orgies’,” and, “Why would you want to act like a pagan when you have the true God,” demonstrating that even if negative feelings towards the word ‘Allah’ isn’t widely hated or misunderstood, there are some blokes who clearly have their minds misdirected in judging Islam. Someone else here even said, “It doesn’t make any sense to me for Catholics to refer to God as Allah,” another disconnect that would potentially break Catholic/Muslim dialogue.

And the only reason why this thread was started was because I enthusiastically announced that I was going to start praying the Tasbih (in so far as I aligned it with Truth), then suddenly I was attacked and one of the main issues was with “Allah”, so I felt the need to start defending that word a bit.

I know and exactly. And you said to start praying the Tasbih. …

If you ask me, I would say, please don’t brother. Don’t do that, like I would say, please do not fast during the Ramadan month if the idea is to do what the Muslims do. Not that praying and fasting are wrong in and by themselves. We are not short of these if indeed we need to pray and fast more.

Similarly, maybe that can apply to the issue here in this thread.

Just my two cents.

 

[Reuben_J]

Well when Muslims convert to Christianity in Arabic speaking regions and it has at least
a little to do with something about Arabic speaking Catholics saying Allah, I think that is
very wise and worth it. I will bring it up again: 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

Sure, for the Arabic speaking people. Even if they speak in English they certainly know what Allah is and are being familiar with it, not any different than what Yusuf Ali did. But it would be certainly raised a few eyebrows for a good old Scot to say it.

Have a blessed day.

 

[cath4alltime]

I wonder why Christ taught us the parable of the good Samaritan, why he bothered to teach us to love our enemies as well as our friends.

So sad to see such bigotry. I applaud the wise Catholic who started this thread and his truthful explanations of the word Allah.

I also applaud those who stood up for truth and love among our Eastern Christian friends and that of the West.

God is Love.

Christ never said to do as they do. We are called apart to be a peculiar people not to immerse ourselves into something that has nothing to do with Christ. Being loving is not acting like those who do not worship Christ

 

[cath4alltime]

I know and exactly. And you said to start praying the Tasbih. …

If you ask me, I would say, please don’t brother. Don’t do that, like I would say, please do not fast during the Ramadan month if the idea is to do what the Muslims do. Not that praying and fasting are wrong in and by themselves. We are not short of these if indeed we need to pray and fast more.

Similarly, maybe that can apply to the issue here in this thread.

Just my two cents.

Exactly. I don’t for once understand why in God’s green earth someone would want to practice such things when Christianity is so rich. It is very, very scandalous like as if to say there is not enough that Christ and the Church provided so I need to go outside to find something more.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Christ never said to do as they do. We are called apart to be a peculiar people not to immerse ourselves into something that has nothing to do with Christ. Being loving is not acting like those who do not worship Christ

Avoid saying “Ash Hadu Anna Muhammadan Rasulullah”, Absolutely.
But again (and likely again and again and AGAIN in the future), see “1 Corinthians 9:19-23”.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Exactly. I don’t for once understand why in God’s green earth someone would want to practice such things when Christianity is so rich. It is very, very scandalous like as if to say there is not enough that Christ and the Church provided so I need to go outside to find something more.

“Glory to God”, “Praise to God”, “God is Great”, “No God except God”,
ABSOLUTELY VERY SCANDALOUS PHRASES, is the implication of
what you’re saying.

I can’t remember how I found the Tasbih, but I don’t think I was looking
for it, I probably just found it, (actually I think I learned it in a song), and
I liked it, found it a good means of worshiping God, but I don’t forsake
other means of worship more familiar to Christians, oui vey.

 

[Rete]

Well I was asked earlier by someone, “You would never see St. Paul saying ‘oh I must be loving so I’ll do a pagan orgies’,” and, “Why would you want to act like a pagan when you have the true God,” demonstrating that even if negative feelings towards the word ‘Allah’ isn’t widely hated or misunderstood, there are some blokes who clearly have their minds misdirected in judging Islam. Someone else here even said, “It doesn’t make any sense to me for Catholics to refer to God as Allah,” another disconnect that would potentially break Catholic/Muslim dialogue.

And the only reason why this thread was started was because I enthusiastically announced that I was going to start praying the Tasbih (in so far as I aligned it with Truth), then suddenly I was attacked and one of the main issues was with “Allah”, so I felt the need to start defending that word a bit.

I said that and it’s true. Furthermore, if you think it is somehow a fantastic idea to call Allah one and the same with the real God, then prepare for potential conflict with some Muslims who get angry when you refer to God the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit.

In a culture where the world Allah is used in place of God, then it’s obviously different. But here in the West, it certainly is not okay to speak of God as Allah. They are not the same thing at all. Not theologically. Not linguistically. Not culturally. Bad idea.

 

[cath4alltime]

“Glory to God”, “Praise to God”, “God is Great”, “No God except God”,
ABSOLUTELY VERY SCANDALOUS PHRASES, is the implication of
what you’re saying.

I can’t remember how I found the Tasbih, but I don’t think I was looking
for it, I probably just found it, (actually I think I learned it in a song), and
I liked it, found it a good means of worshiping God, but I don’t forsake
other means of worship more familiar to Christians, oui vey.

Do as you will but be warned you are causing grave scandal by practicing things from Islam, of course you will still deflect like you have here and not care about your fellow Christian. I will pray a Rosary for your soul.

 

[7armyrugrats]

Christianity has adopted many feasts and traditions from Pagans. The timing of holidays so that they coincide with Pagan holidays (All Soul’s Day, etc), using signs and symbols familiar to the native peoples (St. Patrick and the shamrock, etc) of areas being converted, allowing the original Christians to drop dietary customs of the Jews and not forcing circumcision on converts even are examples of borrowing from Pagan traditions all the way back to the Apostles. Allah in Islam is, according to the CCC, the God of Abraham. Islam is NOT a pagan religion. It is an imperfect understanding of the one true God. If the Apostles and generations of Christians since the Apostles have taken the best parts of native religions (all PAGAN!) and used it to promote and spread Christianity, why is it wrong to do the same with Islam? It is a VERY Catholic tradition to use bits and pieces of a religion as a conversion tool and it has worked extremely well for our Church. The OP may very well be on to something.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Do as you will but be warned you are causing grave scandal by practicing things from Islam, of course you will still deflect like you have here and not care about your fellow Christian. I will pray a Rosary for your soul.

Defect? I still follow the papacy, following their example in this case in fact, I believe and love the Trinity, including the Trinity into my Tasbih, attend mass regular, confess, defend the Catholic Faith a the best I can on Yahoo Answers where many important questions are asked, AND you call me defected on account of my saying 33 Glory to God, 33 Praise to God, 33 God is Great, and 1 No god except God in Arabic?

I appreciate you praying the Rosary for me, but at least
don’t say that I don’t care about my fellow Christians.

 

[cath4alltime]

Defect? I still follow the papacy, following their example in this case in fact, I believe and love the Trinity, including the Trinity into my Tasbih, attend mass regular, confess, defend the Catholic Faith a the best I can on Yahoo Answers where many important questions are asked, AND you call me defected on account of my saying 33 Glory to God, 33 Praise to God, 33 God is Great, and 1 No god except God in Arabic?

I appreciate you praying the Rosary for me, but at least
don’t say that I don’t care about my fellow Christians.

I have to say that because your commiting a grave scandal that could potentilly shipwreck the faith of others, that is why I say you don’t care. You did not think what your actions could do and came here boasting that your going to practice elements of islam, no matter how you say it your still turning to islam even if it’s just doing one thing.

You would do much better praying novenas for the souls of muslims instead of pretending to be one.

 

[Publisher]

I have to say that because your commiting a grave scandal that could potentilly shipwreck the faith of others, that is why I say you don’t care. You did not think what your actions could do and came here boasting that your going to practice elements of islam, no matter how you say it your still turning to islam even if it’s just doing one thing.

You would do much better praying novenas for the souls of muslims instead of pretending to be one.

Just a side note…since you did not capitalize “muslim” are you using it in the sense of the original term “muslim” …“one who submits to God”? We ALL who believe in Him are “muslim”…we submit to God…dow we not?

 

[cath4alltime]

Just a side note…since you did not capitalize “muslim” are you using it in the sense of the original term “muslim” …“one who submits to God”? We ALL who believe in Him are “muslim”…we submit to God…dow we not?

Not at all, far be it and I ain’t no dang muslim. I don’t capitalize it because I don’t respect it. You will not see me doing any muslim prayers and silliness

 

[Kanuckistani]

Not at all, far be it and I ain’t no dang muslim. I don’t capitalize it because I don’t respect it. You will not see me doing any muslim prayers and silliness

Well, you my friend, need to be a little more tolerant. There’s nothing wrong with Muslims, they’re people just like you and me. I think you need to be a little bit more respectful.