For Charismatic Catholics

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Shalom.

I’ve been, well, utterly confused lately. You see, I’ve really been looking into Catholicism a lot, and it has for me a great deal of appeal, but at the same time, even though I live very close to a local parish, I do not think it provides the ideal community for me, and this is an essential part of conversion: finding a suitable church home. What’s more, it seems like I agree with every doctrine but transubstantiation, the “source” and “summit” of the faith! My views on the subject range more towards memorialism or consubstantiation. This has been a serious hindrance for me.

Recently, a friend of mine and I went to a non-denominational, semi-charismatic church–Word of Life. His friend, who blows me away, is the pastor’s son. The place is decidedly smaller than our other church, but I have seen this only as a good thing: I honestly have not come across a single person who did not amaze me in his/her joy and excitement and enthusiasm over Christ. The Sunday school teacher there, Pastor Peter, I could tell was very open-minded, and I knew him to be in touch very well with the Holy Spirit. For whatever reason, I’d walked into the church, bringing my concerns and problems with me, and I felt at the time very unabsolved. I asked him if I could speak to him after the class, and he said yes.

When it was just Justin (another adult teacher), him, Seth (my new friend, the head pastor’s son) and my other friend, I began to tell him what was going on. I told him that I had a burden which was going to make no allowance for worship, and I asked him if I could confess to him and if he’d forgive me. I didn’t know what reaction to expect. At my Baptist church, I know I would have been reprimanded. “Of course,” he said. I was so relieved! I got down on my knees and began spilling out everything that came to my mind at the time. He forgave me, and I felt like I’d been eased, like I’d been truly forgiven, and like I’d become closer with everyone in that room at the time.

Talking further with everyone, Peter recommended at the altar call I come down and they’d pray over me. Jeremy (the youth pastor who’d gone with us to an Underoath concert not long before) came up to pray over me, looked me in the eyes, and said, “God is speaking a word to me right now–really strongly, too. It’s ‘confusion.’ What are you confused about?” I was blown away. Everyone there was so invasive, and I loved it! It was astounding, the best community by-far that I’d found.

Yet there was a problem: It didn’t call itself infallible, which should have been normative of the true Church, it didn’t provide the Eucharist, without which I feared something terrible … Simultaneously I doubted the Catholic definition of both these things.

For high school I plan on attending an excellent school (a Catholic school of great renown), and if indeed God was calling me into the Catholic Church, it would easily be the best decision to start Catechism as soon as possible, as it would help my family tremendously financially. But what if he isn’t? I can’t help but feel like Our Lady of the Lake isn’t an adequate home for me. I can’t help but feel like though it offers everything else, Word of Life cannot give me the Sacraments I so desperately need.

I’m scared, I admit. Confused. My mom will not support a decision to join your church, but I wish to please God and not people. I do not wish, either, to abandon this new fellowship I’ve found. Brothers! Sisters! What should I do?

I thought that perhaps I might attend WoL on Sundays, Mass on Saturdays, but I’m beginning to think a Charismatic Catholic church might be the best option for Mass. Please, can someone tell me, Is it different than just typical Catholic churches, more lively, more ‘in touch’ with the Spirit, so to speak?

Please pray on my behalf. I’ve been neglecting the Word a lot at this most critical time, and I know it is my answer. Please help me here. I want faith, I want a home, but I want most of all what God wills.
 
I felt the same once. That energy of Protestantism I yearned for so badly, yet I wished for the order, assurance, and strength of Catholicism. I eventually chose Catholicism.

Now as for charasmatic Catholic churches, they do have that feeling of that energy and Spirit-filled presence that you speak of. Not that traditional masses don’t, but they have that more “protestant” feeling you know of (at least for me. I was Methodist thus I had a lot in common with Catholics), yet they are still very much Catholic. I have been to one carasmatic Catholic service. It was not too long ago. My situation does not allow me to practice Catholicism openly hence my learning of the faith is cripled; especially on how the mass goes. After 6 years of not going to mass you would forget how it goes as well. So I went to one once and my mom forced me to go up at the alter where the priest had called all of the youth for a special spiritual gathering or something like that (I was too nervous to remember). I had no idea what to do. I had on my leather jacket (it was cold outside), so I sweated not only from being hot, but from being nervous. When the alter boy near me looked at me he laughed at me! It is funny now, but that made me sweat even more. If that had not happened I would have enjoyed the service much more. Anyways enough of my blabbering. In your case I recommend you attend a charasmatic catholic mass. When you have please post back here and tell us how it was. I hope you will enjoy it.

God bless.

Vigis
 
Can you tell me why you cannot attend Mass?

I would like to very much, but understand because of my age, which renders me at the mercy of my parents who would never condone the Catholic practices, I might not be able to regularly attend a Mass at any church other than Our Lady. But because you say to me the “energy” is very much the same, and because I trust you help, I will find some way to attend one.

In the meantime, can someone help me with my Eucharistic problem? My lack of faith in transubstantiation leaves me incapable to receive the Meal, while my heart years for the Sacrament, which I know to be very mystical in nature.
 
Can you tell me why you cannot attend Mass?

I would like to very much, but understand because of my age, which renders me at the mercy of my parents who would never condone the Catholic practices, I might not be able to regularly attend a Mass at any church other than Our Lady. But because you say to me the “energy” is very much the same, and because I trust you help, I will find some way to attend one.

In the meantime, can someone help me with my Eucharistic problem? My lack of faith in transubstantiation leaves me incapable to receive the Meal, while my heart years for the Sacrament, which I know to be very mystical in nature.
1 Corinthians 11 herefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
 
I am familiar with that one. It was really this one that got me to think about it in a new light:

1 Corinthians 10:6 “The blessing-cup, which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ; and the loaf of bread which we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?”
 
I am familiar with that one. It was really this one that got me to think about it in a new light:

1 Corinthians 10:6 “The blessing-cup, which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ; and the loaf of bread which we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?”
Transubstantiation
Host - Fr. Shannon Collins, CPM doeschurchteach09.ra
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/file_index.asp?SeriesId=7056&pgnu=
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/series_index.asp

Included on this page are descriptions of just a few of these miracles. All of them have received full approval by the Church. Most Eucharistic miracles involve incidences in which the Host has “turned into human flesh and blood”.
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

Sienna, Italy – August 17, 1730
Consecrated Hosts remain perfectly preserved for over 250 years. Rigorous scientific experiments have not been able to explain this phenomena.

Lanciano, Italy – 8th century A.D.
A priest has doubts about the Real Presence; however, when he consecrates the Host it transforms into flesh and blood. This miracle has undergone extensive scientific examination and can only be explained as a miracle. The flesh is actually cardiac tissue which contains arterioles, veins, and nerve fibers. The blood type as in all other approved Eucharistic miracles is type AB! Histological micrographs are shown.

Physician Tells of Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano - (Zenit)
“Dr. Edoardo Linoli says he held real cardiac tissue in his hands, when some years ago he analyzed the relics of the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, Italy.”
Other Eucharistic Miracles - Martin Herbert
There are many extraordinary, as well as thoroughly authenticated miracles connected with the Eucharist.

The Incorruptibles (There are more than 250 incorrupt bodies of saints )theworkofgod.org/saints/

St. Clare St. John Vianney St.Catherine Laboure St. Bernardette
St. Francis Xavier St. Margaret M Alq. Bl. Anne. Marie Taigi St. Vincent de Paul
Blessed Imelda
 
Can you tell me why you cannot attend Mass?

I would like to very much, but understand because of my age, which renders me at the mercy of my parents who would never condone the Catholic practices, I might not be able to regularly attend a Mass at any church other than Our Lady. But because you say to me the “energy” is very much the same, and because I trust you help, I will find some way to attend one.

In the meantime, can someone help me with my Eucharistic problem? My lack of faith in transubstantiation leaves me incapable to receive the Meal, while my heart years for the Sacrament, which I know to be very mystical in nature.
I can not attend mass because my father is a methodist pastor, and he would not allow me to do such. Thus I must practice my faith in secret or at least out of sight in order to live with him. House rules.

As for the Eucharist I have only to offer theis. Jesus himself said that it was his body and blood. Thus I believe him. I know that that is not much to go on (not that Jesus’ words are little, but that it is one statement); however, it is theologically sound.

God speed.

Vigis
 
I can not attend mass because my father is a methodist pastor, and he would not allow me to do such. Thus I must practice my faith in secret or at least out of sight in order to live with him. House rules.
As for the Eucharist I have only to offer theis. Jesus himself said that it was his body and blood. Thus I believe him. I know that that is not much to go on (not that Jesus’ words are little, but that it is one statement); however, it is theologically sound.
God speed.
That’s terrible! Are you Catechised, then? If you don’t mind, how old are you? You make yourself sound young. (I’m 13, by the way.)

I know they are his words … but, there are so many other interpretations … and …

I must admit, you make a persuasive argument, friend! 🙂 Will you pray for me? I must make use of the great prayer I found in Mark 9:27: “I believe, but help me overcome my unbelief!”

 
Hey, can somebody somewhere help me locate a site that might tell me if there are any local Charismatic Catholic churches around?

I looked. My results were less than satisfactory.

I’m not really sure if a parish would advertise itself as Charismatic, necessarily, when you think about it.

I’d really, really, really appreciate the help!
 
I think being a Charismatic Catholic is great! I attend mass at least once a week. There is no Spirit filled mass in our area. I do attend worship at a Charismatic College nearby or other churches in the area. I never take communion if offered, but pray respectfully to God while it is taking place. I am sometimes asked questions about this and why I am a Catholic. People are sometimes upset. Often these are the ones that keep returning with deeply thoughtful questions. It seems important to avoid “spiritual soup” and be clear about Catholicity.
 
The Real Presence in the Eucharist is still a “problem” for me, too. I have a very hard time internalizing the reality of it. Fortunately, our pastor is very Eucharistically centered, and this is helping me to keep focusing.

Heck, I’m in my late 50s, and have been Catholic for more than 20 years. I don’t think I’m alone in having moments of unbelief. This is a human trait, and especially a trait of modern people like us.

I would argue for being patient. You’re on the right path, and you will explore many side streets along the way. Enjoy the journey, learn from everything. 50 years from now, God willing, you’ll still be learning. It is all a process, you’ll get closer and closer, but will never fully arrive until you get to Heaven.
 
You have already revealed that you are aware of Jesus claiming that, the bread and wine are his body and blood

And you are correct to say there are many interpretations
But the deciding factor for believing is that when the people left he didnt call them back and say hey wait i was only speaking metaphorically

I think that if jesus was speaking in a metaphor then he wouldve corrected those who chose to disbelieve

Recommended reading:

The NEW Catholic Answer Bible
 
Dear Truthinator,

I hadn’t realized you were 13. You’re very well spoken, I would have guessed you were much older! Your zeal for Christ is beautiful. Hold on to that. I’m 19 years old. It’s always good to see a well-spoken teen on these forums.

Let me help you with two things. First with the Eucharist. Second with the Holy Spirit.
  1. The Eucharist.
There are two key things to know here. A. The Real Presence. B. Transubstantiation. A and B are very closely related, but they are not the same thing. Let me explain.

A. The Real Presence refers to the belief that Jesus is really and truly present in the Eucharist. This answers the question, “What is the Eucharist?” If you answer, “The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!” then you believe in the Real Presence.

B. Transubstantiation refers to how the bread and the wine become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.It asserts that what happens is that the, “is” of the bread and wine, become what the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, “is.”

Notice the second part of the word, “substantiation.” In philosophical terminology the, “substance” of a thing is what it is. It is a completely abstract concept, and it is not sensible, which is to say, we cannot know a substance by our senses. We know substances by our intellect (mind). What “transubstantiation” means is literally, “trans” “substance”-- or change substance. All that we assert when we say we believe in transubstantiation is that the *substance *of bread and wine change into the substance of Jesus’ Body and Blood.

So, the question would be put to the person who believes in the Real Presence, “How does the Real Presence come to be in the Eucharist?” And if you answer, “By the change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ,” then you believe in transubstantiation! It’s really that simple!

Now, I’d like to share a few links with you-- but I can’t find them, or they’re down! I’ll try to get back to you with them. Realpresence.org is a fantastic site, but it seems to be down right now. I recommend checking that site if it comes back up-- for the Scriptural evidence and the evidence from the Fathers. Church Militant’s link is pretty good.

For A. I recommend this link highly. Take, “The Believer’s Test.” Here is Part I. Here is Part II. Note: the site seems to be down, so these are links to Google’s cache. The internal links won’t work, you’ll have to use the links I’ve provided. This is one of my favorites-- it leads you step by step through John chapter 6.

For B. Here is a good link on, “Transubstantiation and Reason.”

I highly recommend reading the articles I just linked to.

Just one final comment. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote a beautiful poem about the Eucharist, the Adoro te Devote. One stanza reads:

Seeing, touching, tasting, are in thee deceived;
How says trusty hearing? That shall be believed;
What God’s Son has told me, take for truth I do;
Truth himself speaks truly or there’s nothing true.
 
  1. The Holy Spirit.
I understand you were impressed by the lives of the people at the charasmatic church you attended. However, it’s a good thing to put the gifts of the Holy Spirit in perspective. While extraordinary gifts such as tongues (which charasmatics tend to emphasize, for instance) are only useful inasmuch as they build up the Church. I recommend you read 1 Corinthians 12-14 if you aren’t already familiar with Paul’s teachings on such things.

The really important gifts of the Holy Spirit are the virtues. This is so counterintuitive at first, but it really is so amazing. Everything else-- tongues, prophecy, interpretation, gifts of healing-- these are all irrelevant. One does not have to be holy to have these gifts. In the Gospel of John, the high priest Caiaphas prophecies Christ’s death.

But the virtues-- these are essential. The theological virtues (faith, hope and love) unite your soul to God. And these are the chief gifts of the Holy Spirit which you, me, and all Christians should be excited to have.

The first respondant gave a link to an EWTN article on Padre Pio and mysticism. I think he really hit the nail on the head. The Catholic Church is such a tremendously Holy Spirit oriented institution. It is the Holy Spirit which teaches us how to pray.

If you want to know more about the mystical saints, and contemplative prayer, I recently read a book which is an introduction to Sts. Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross on prayer, called, Fire Within, by Fr. Thomas Dubay. I really do encourage reading into this, so you can truly appreciate what God has prepared for his faithful, and also, so you can understand how powerfully the Holy Spirit moves within the Church. In the words of Jesus to the Samaritan woman, “if you knew the gift of God!” (Jn 4:10).

God bless!

P.S. If you have any specific questions I’ll be happy to answer them directly, for instance, regarding why memorialism and consubstantiation are implausible. If you want, you can PM me or if you use an instant messenger service, we can discuss it on that.
 
… I honestly have not come across a single person who did not amaze me in his/her joy and excitement and enthusiasm over Christ. .
If you read the story of a saint, like St. Anthony, or St. Padre Pio, or St. Therese of Liseuax or St. Francis of Assisi or so many others, you will see whole lives that are amazing, that will excite and enthuse you. And you will see what excites and enthused them, and you will be moved.

Keep praying for God to show you what is true and right and beautiful. He will!
 
To RobNY,

I’ve have heard it said before that transubstantiation means receiving the substance of the Glorified Body of Christ, but as to what “substance” actually means in this context I am still uncertain about. Thomas Aquinas, if I’m correct, taught this, and its ambiguity left me incredibly puzzled.

Tell me, do you hold that the PHYSICAL substance of Christ’s Glorified Body is received, or do you believe it to be a SPIRITUAL substance? Or is this as mysterious as anything to you? Can you offer some clarification on your beliefs in this matter?

Also, in regards to the gifts of the Spirit:

I am forced to believe that these gifts remain in our world today. I have heard too many times of miraculous happenings in other lands, and, indeed, even here in America. I, however, could never be a Pentecostal because, according to Paul, we do not all have the ability to speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:30), and, what’s more, the gift of speaking in languages unknown, he continues, is for nonbelievers, and* prophecy* for believers. Charismatics are less dogmatic, and less hanging from the ceilings, down on the ground in Spirit-led convulsions, so to speak, than Pentecostals. Since the church I attended was non-demoninational, it really wasn’t either of these, though. It was loosely, in some way, associated in my mind with charismatic theology because of their strong emphasis on the Spirit and their belief in “an anointing,” which I heard not from the pastor but from the congregation. I assumed that Charismatic Catholicism would be more like the non-demon church than an all-out charismatic church, because it may associate itself with certain gifts, and have about it a certain desirable energy, without being dogmatic over minute issues such as speaking in tongues, healings, etc.

I’ve already investigated 1 Corinthians 12-14. I actually stayed after school one day to talk to my Social Studies teacher (a former Pentecostal) about this stuff. He told me what it meant to speak in “ecstatic utterances” verses “tongues,” and politely pointed out that many, the majority even, of the Pentecostals were doing the former. We continued looking into just what the Scriptures said on the subject. Ultimately, we concluded that the gifts still remain, but that due to lack of relevance to our particular culture, which has easy access to the Word of God, they may be less prevailent. We also took careful consideration of Paul’s words in chapters 13 and 14, as it is the most important part of his message:

Though I command languages both human and angelic–if I speak without love, I am no more than a gong booming or a cymbal clashing. And though I have the power of prophecy, to penetrate all mysteries and knowledge, and though I have all the faith necessary to move mountains–if I am without love, I am nothing… Love never comes to an end. But if there are prophecies, they will be done away with; if tongues, they will fall silent; and if knowledge, it will be done away with… these remain: faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love. Make love your aim; but be eager, too, for spiritual gifts… As you are eager to have spiritual powers, aim to be rich in those which build up the community.
 
Shalom.

I’ve been, well, utterly confused lately. You see, I’ve really been looking into Catholicism a lot, and it has for me a great deal of appeal, but at the same time, even though I live very close to a local parish, I do not think it provides the ideal community for me, and this is an essential part of conversion: finding a suitable church home. What’s more, it seems like I agree with every doctrine but transubstantiation, the “source” and “summit” of the faith! My views on the subject range more towards memorialism or consubstantiation. This has been a serious hindrance for me.
This makes it easy. You can’t be Catholic until you fully accept Transubstantiation. Plain and simple. Don’t even try.

Sub
 
This makes it easy. You can’t be Catholic until you fully accept Transubstantiation. Plain and simple. Don’t even try.
It seems to me you do little to track the progress of my faith and, though I mean no disrespect, I do not need a deterrent: I need one who will be devoted to helping me and praying for me. So far Vigis and RobNY have done excellent in this area … But your quick dismissal of my interest in the Faith was as unnecessary as it was unbrotherly. Your clear refusal to sympathize with my doubt was even worse … I believe at this moment very much in transubstantiation: It is trying to grasp it and expel doubts that I am currently dealing with.

Once again, I’m sorry. I really mean no disrespect, but I am struggling a lot right now and this is anything but helpful.
 
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