For Dads eyes only: Sex life with kids, NFP etc

[Cath_dad91]

Hey all,

This is my first post. They say Catholic’s have the best sex, although after almost 3 years of marriage, I am struggling to believe that! I know that sex isn’t going to be as frequent etc once kids come along, but I have to admit I struggle with the way things are.

The stereotype is sex for males is purely physical, and for women it’s more emotional, but I feel like it’s the other way around. Sex is an amazing bond with my wife that I miss everyday. For her, I feel it’s just a physical activity that she is bored of. She said she ‘doesn’t like sex’ and get’s everything she needs from cuddling, so doesn’t need it. As a maleI am very patient with my wife, and try not to show my sadness, but it does upset me that my sex life is so poor. My desire to make love to my wife often clouds my mind at work, and it saddens me I can’t fulfill that desire.

The main obstacles are:
-wife says she “doesn’t like sex” (I used to be confident in seducing her, but I’ve been turned down too many times to be able to put myself out there confidently anymore).

-NFP. We have two kids, and yet to reach our third year wedding anniversary. Struggling to afford a house right now, so currently living with in-laws. We can’t fall pregnant before we get our house next year or the bank won’t lend us the money we need for a place (already a drastic reduction in my borrowing power because I have two kids).
My wife is never sure of the ‘situation’ down there, so we can’t accurately chart, thus never confident that we’ll be avoiding pregnancy, so don’t end up having sex.

-Kids in bed. We have had two kids in our almost 3 years of marriage, and they’re always in our bed. The very rare occasion my wife actually wants to initiate sex (she hasn’t initiated in more than a year) she doesn’t. She tells me the next day that she wanted to, but didn’t because the kids were in our bed.

Am I the only one who struggles with this?? I always put my wife’s desires before mine, but this doesn’t mean I don’t struggle with this. How do you manage to be intimate with all these obstacles?

 

[pensmama87]

A few quick thoughts:

• If you take a course on NFP, that can help you and your wife. A method using temperature might be helpful because that really isn’t subject to interpretation the way cervical fluid can be. Or a method like Marquette because it uses a monitor (there are a few other devices as well).
• We also had 2 kids by the time we were married three years. Two very small children is very taxing and tiring. I frequently had very low libido because I was dealing with hormone craziness of pregnancy, postpartum and nursing, and then just the sheer exhaustion. I also had postpartum depression after both babies. I had a good counselor after baby #2 and so “bounced back” a lot sooner, but I went undiagnosed for over a year with baby #1 and it almost destroyed our entire marriage.
• You don’t mention this in your post so I am going to bring it up. What other ways do you try to romance your wife? Are you familiar with the concept of “love languages?” My husband’s primary love language is physical touch, which is probably ranked last for me, and my primary love language is “acts of service,” which ranks as his last. So once babies came along and we had to prioritize how we spent the time we did get together, we had to figure out how to say “I love you” to each other in a way that would be recognized by the other person. We were getting frustrated with each other because we were trying and the other person wasn’t “getting it,” which made us want to quit trying.
• Along with the above, ask your wife what you can do to be helpful to her and make her life easier. And then do those things. Since I’m an “acts of service” gal, it made me a LOT more interested in my husband when I saw that he cared enough to do the dishes without asking. It made me feel cherished and that he cared about things that were important to me (I hate dishes, with a passion.) When he got petulant and whiny about not having sex, it made me really not want to have sex with him.
• I’ll also say that it’s possible your wife is just behaving selfishly. I’d say there’s probably a combination of things going on, but also note with this last one that there’s not much you can do from the outside to change that. Blaming can feel good but where does it get you? What you can do to change the situation is probably going to get you a lot farther. And if you do those things and she’s not warming up to you, then it’s a good indication that marriage counseling is needed. Or you can jump right to that and say, “Hey, things are hard, and it would be helpful to get some outside perspective on how we can relate better and do this parenthood and marriage thing better.” Because you’re at a really hard time IMO (having just been there myself.)
• Oh, and if you don’t do it already, I’ll say that when my husband took over most of bedtime it was AMAZING for me (it started naturally because I started a part-time job that had me away a few evenings a week). When we transitioned our kids to sleeping on their own, we actually spent a few weeks where we slept apart, so the transition was “with mom and dad” to “with mom and dad but on dad’s side of the bed only” to “with dad in my room” to “in my bed with dad nearby” to “in my own bed and dad with mom.” And we found other places for intimacy (and especially for young babies, them being in the same room or even the same bed is not a reason to forego lovemaking there).
• Last thing, thinking about the above: if at all possible I’d resolve the living situation first. It may be weird for your wife to have sex in her parents’ house, and she may have trouble relaxing in a house that isn’t hers, having to worry about other adults hearing and not being able to spread out her stuff. Can your kids even sleep somewhere else?

I’d rather rent an apartment that I can call my own and put off house buying than live with parents and not have a normal marriage.

 

[1ke]

Full disclosure, I am not a man.

-wife says she “doesn’t like sex” (I used to be confident in seducing her, but I’ve been turned down too many times to be able to put myself out there confidently anymore).

Can she articulate what, exactly, she “doesn’t like”?

• Struggling to afford a house right now, so currently living with in-laws. We can’t fall pregnant before we get our house next year or the bank won’t lend us the money we need for a place (already a drastic reduction in my borrowing power because I have two kids).

Marital status, number of children, whether or not you are or intend to become pregnant are all illegal questions vis-à-vis a mortgage application and CANNOT be considered in the mortgage lending process. I don’t understand why you believe your borrowing power is reduced based on the number of children you have.

My wife is never sure of the ‘situation’ down there, so we can’t accurately chart, thus never confident that we’ll be avoiding pregnancy, so don’t end up having sex.

Have you and your wife taken a class. Certainly she can accurately chart, she is choosing not to.

-Kids in bed. We have had two kids in our almost 3 years of marriage, and they’re always in our bed. The very rare occasion my wife actually wants to initiate sex (she hasn’t initiated in more than a year) she doesn’t. She tells me the next day that she wanted to, but didn’t because the kids were in our bed.

Create a bedtime routine that includes kids going to their own bed. Take charge of the bedtime routine.

Am I the only one who struggles with this?? I always put my wife’s desires before mine, but this doesn’t mean I don’t struggle with this. How do you manage to be intimate with all these obstacles?

Has your wife considered counseling-- it sounds like she has a LOT of issues and she is using multiple excuses such as kids in bed, ignorance of fertility cycle, and “don’t like” sex. But, is it depression, post partum or otherwise? Something physical? Some other unspoken issue manifesting itself in the bedroom?

She needs some help because this isn’t normal behavior.

 

[1ke]

It may be weird for your wife to have sex in her parents’ house, and she may have trouble relaxing in a house that isn’t hers

Oooh, good catch.

 

[underacloud]

-wife says she “doesn’t like sex”

As others have addressed, you need to work out why.

One option - common for many men so don’t feel singled out - is that the husband just hasn’t learnt to please his wife properly yet. It takes time to get to know each other in that way. You may need to have a more frank discussion about what she does and doesn’t like with regard to your “techniques”.

There’s also many other issues that may need to be explored - living with her parents, feeling overwhelmed with young children, possible depression, your general (non-sexual) intimacy, etc.

If it is a problem - and you wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t - then counselling is worth considering.

My wife is never sure of the ‘situation’ down there, so we can’t accurately chart, thus never confident that we’ll be avoiding pregnancy, so don’t end up having sex.

Has she (both of you) been properly instructed in the particular NFP method you are using? Have you explored your options thoroughly?

-Kids in bed.

Kids need their own beds. Your’s are still very young, but even just getting them out of your bed and into a cot in your room would be a good first step. You need them out of your bed, and bedroom, sooner or later, so you might as well establish the habit while they are young and more easily adaptable.

 

[Cath_dad91]

A few quick thoughts:

• If you take a course on NFP, that can help you and your wife.

We did have one at our pre-marriage course, but a refresher sounds like a good idea.

I also had postpartum depression after both babies.

I will ask her this. We talk about everything, and I always ask if there is anything she wants to talk about, but not necessarily the direct question.

• You don’t mention this in your post so I am going to bring it up. What other ways do you try to romance your wife? Are you familiar with the concept of “love languages?”

She is an “acts of service” kinda gal. I do try to get up in the night and help, which she appreciates. I guess I can always do more though, as taking care of two kids all day is tiring.

• I’ll also say that it’s possible your wife is just behaving selfishly.

I think it’s a lot to do with male/female compatibility. 3 years on she is the sexist lady in my life. I wish she felt the same about me. I don’t see any point saying that (although I have before) because you can’t ask someone to *feel *something.

I’d rather rent an apartment that I can call my own and put off house buying than live with parents and not have a normal marriage.

We live in Sydney, top 10 most expensive cities in the world. house prices have been rising by 10-20% a year lately. a ‘cheap’ house is $550k, and that is not a home suited to fit a big family (which is what we intend to have). A nice family home is $1m. We can’t afford that, so doing out best to get something to fit a family, before that slips out of our hands. We will be out in a year though. I do feel uncomfortable though sometimes, especially when the walls are paper thin.

Thanks for your help. I do feel a little strange speaking about this with a woman though, but it is good to get advice from a woman’s perspective, because us men are not very intuitive apparently!

 

[Cath_dad91]

Has she (both of you) been properly instructed in the particular NFP method you are using? Have you explored your options thoroughly?

The Billings Method. I am going to book a session though so we can have a more one-on-one approach to get the best information.

Kids need their own beds. Your’s are still very young, but even just getting them out of your bed and into a cot in your room would be a good first step. You need them out of your bed, and bedroom, sooner or later, so you might as well establish the habit while they are young and more easily adaptable.

They each have their own beds, but you know kids, they cry and whine during the night. It’s easier for us in the short term (so we can sleep) to let them in our bed. Of course in the long run, we’re probably creating bad habits.

 

[underacloud]

The Billings Method. I am going to book a session though so we can have a more one-on-one approach to get the best information.

My wife and I started with Billings. We eventually decided sympto-thermal was better, which is essentially Billings plus temperature measurements. The temps add a level of certainty that is hard to have with Billings alone.

They each have their own beds, but you know kids, they cry and whine during the night. It’s easier for us in the short term (so we can sleep) to let them in our bed. Of course in the long run, we’re probably creating bad habits.

Yes, I know all too well how that goes. And yes - you know it - you are creating bad habits!

Living with the inlaws no doubt makes you want to avoid disturbances through the night, so all the more reason to be trying to get your own place soon (noting of course your challenges therein).

 

[Falco]

I’d second the reading of The Five Love Languages - it is an eye opener. One statement that stayed with me. If she is a Quality Time person, and you are an Acts of Service, she will be sitting on the sofa fuming because,instead of sitting having a half hour of talking to each other, you are rushing around putting out the garbage, doing the washing up, and feeding the pets. You see it as showing your love to her. She sees it as procrastinating.

If she is a Gifts person, and you are a Touch person, she does not see a hug as what she wants - she’d love a flower from the garden, a magazine article put aside for her to read, a diamond bracelet, a rental movie you think she’ll like. She may be quite stand-offish about physical contact.

I think Love Language compatibility is one of the most important things there is. I’m a Touch, with Quality Time a close second - my last would be Gifts. I was matched with an Acts of Service who didn’t like to be touched. It was maddening, and we broke up. I now am matched with another Touch, and we are both in heaven. Even eyes meeting across a room counts as Touch.

Quality Time, Affirmations, Acts of Service, Gifts, Touch. - five love languages

 

[pensmama87]

We live in Sydney, top 10 most expensive cities in the world. house prices have been rising by 10-20% a year lately. a ‘cheap’ house is $550k, and that is not a home suited to fit a big family (which is what we intend to have). A nice family home is $1m. We can’t afford that, so doing out best to get something to fit a family, before that slips out of our hands. We will be out in a year though. I do feel uncomfortable though sometimes, especially when the walls are paper thin.

I live in the US and so am not at all familiar with Sydney real estate, but if it’s anything like Vancouver, which has this fun website documenting the horrors of its real estate environment, I do feel for you.

All the same, what is a “home suited to fit a big family”? I remember when we were house buying our real estate agent initially steered us toward “starter homes” - tiny little 2 bedroom places, and we knew we wanted to be in a house for a while before having to move. So we told her we wanted something bigger we could grow into a bit (at that time we only had one child.) We live in a small 3 bedroom ranch home, which was a bit too big for us when we moved in but now that we are expecting baby #3 it will be perfect, and will remain perfect until kiddo #6 or #7 (3 kids per room plus baby with us.) One of the tradeoffs of living in a more urban environment is that the house is smaller, but we have a lot more access to public space like parks so we don’t require a ton of square footage, and I am a relentless declutterer so we aren’t ruled by our stuff.

Also, depending on spacing, by the time you have a large number of kids the oldest may be getting ready to move out anyway. (Our kids so far have been 2-2.5 years apart, with zero NFP use by us. I chart for information, but we haven’t changed our actions based on it. This varies woman to woman, but one reason your wife may find charting difficult could be because of breastfeeding - either she’s not cycling or her cycles are crazy and fertility symptoms are difficult to track either way. And breastfeeding tends to lower libido anyway.)

I’m also thinking that in a real estate market like that, salaries should be relatively higher to match the cost of living.

One more thought: if the house is something that you really want, and you want it within a year, you might just have to take the sacrifice for that time and realize that your living situation is just not conducive to a great intimate life with your wife. I’ll reiterate that from what I have heard and experienced personally, having all little kids is really hard, and you have financial and in-law stress on top of that. If you and your wife can be on the same page and say, “Hey, this is temporary so we can move into a home next year,” then when you are frustrated by your living situation you can remind yourselves that it’s temporary and with a larger goal in mind.

(Though I’ll reiterate what 1ke said - at least in the US it’s not legal at all for the number of children you have to factor into lending decisions. Having additional children may limit the amount of time you want to work away from home so might prevent overtime or a second job, which would do a lot to help you earn extra money, but by itself that shouldn’t mean anything to a lender.)

Is your financial situation in general good? Do you have debt? Are you both in control of your spending? Do you budget? You don’t have to necessarily answer these, but these are things to think about when it comes to family planning, as well. Even if you can afford to buy a house within a year, it won’t help if you are consistently spending beyond your means.

 

[Cath_dad91]

Without getting too off topic, we have a small block (300m2) . Hoping to build a modest 4 bedroom to host as many kids as possible. Will still come to over $600k. We aren’t being frivolous or anything. I earn around the nation average salary. Wife home with kids. Trying to maintain the ability for wife to stay home as long as possible.

 

[Lorelei12]

This is just my opinion obviously, but there is no way I’d live with either my parents or in-laws unless we literally would be on the street if we didn’t. I’m certain it would wreak havoc on our marriage. I’m sure it works out fine for some people, but it would never work for us. It doesn’t sound like it’s going too well for you either. Aside from all the other issues we’d have, I wouldn’t like sex in my parents’ home with two kids in my bed either.

We don’t own a home either right now, but we are renting and saving little by little. Sometimes you just have to make choices about what is most important. If you live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, but you don’t own a home there, is there any reason why you couldn’t move somewhere less expensive? If neither of you wants to do that, and you say you’ll have a house within a year, you might have to put up with some extended abstinence for awhile.

Another option is to get some more in-depth NFP instruction, which you mentioned you plan to do. Hopefully that can help the situation. If Billings isn’t working for her, there are other methods to try. Also, Pensmama mentioned breastfeeding and charting, which can be really difficult.

It sounds like there are a lot of factors leading to the non-intimacy issues here- living situation, kids in the bed, perhaps postpartum difficulties with charting and libido. Addressing even one of these issues might really help.

 

[SWolf]

Hey all,

The main obstacles are:
-wife says she “doesn’t like sex” (I used to be confident in seducing her, but I’ve been turned down too many times to be able to put myself out there confidently anymore).

-NFP. We have two kids, and yet to reach our third year wedding anniversary. Struggling to afford a house right now, so currently living with in-laws. We can’t fall pregnant before we get our house next year or the bank won’t lend us the money we need for a place (already a drastic reduction in my borrowing power because I have two kids).
My wife is never sure of the ‘situation’ down there, so we can’t accurately chart, thus never confident that we’ll be avoiding pregnancy, so don’t end up having sex.

-Kids in bed. We have had two kids in our almost 3 years of marriage, and they’re always in our bed. The very rare occasion my wife actually wants to initiate sex (she hasn’t initiated in more than a year) she doesn’t. She tells me the next day that she wanted to, but didn’t because the kids were in our bed.

So:

You are living with your in-laws
The kids are always in your bed

1. You need to move out. A man who can’t even secure a home for his wife will murder any sexual attraction she might have towards you.
2. Set boundaries for your kids. There is absolutely no reason for your kids to be in your private space.

To romancing, being nice, etc. Is going to help you here if you don’t resolve the above.

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

Suggestion - ask the in-laws to watch the kids for a few hours. Rent a hotel room nearby so you can have some time for intimacy. Tell the in-laws you are going to a movie if this embarrasses you. Make it a monthly “appointment” if it goes well. Not going to solve all of your problems, obviously, but something to look forward to and it might help your wife relax and be more interested in sex.

 

[Dulcie]

I would say that an important question is: has she always felt this way about sex, or has something changed over the last three years? How easy does she find it to talk to you? It sounds as if there could potentially be quite a bit going on under the surface, and her lack of desire for sex could be a symptom rather than a cause.

How is she finding motherhood, and being a SAHM?

I would definitely not be allowing the kids to get into bed with you if it is affecting your relationship with your wife. Not only is that a very bad for your marriage, it’s also a bad thing for your kids in the long run because they will benefit most from having parents with a rock-solid relationship. Remember that if they complain about being told “no”.

 

[SonOfMan]

I dont think anyone else has mentioned it, but perhaps your wife is up to something shady? The constant excuse-making is very concerning. The kids in the bed thing just sounds like a coy.

 

[LongingSoul]

I dont think anyone else has mentioned it, but perhaps your wife is up to something shady? The constant excuse-making is very concerning. The kids in the bed thing just sounds like a coy.

I would say that is the least likely explanation of all. I’ve been that Mum who birthed 3 kids within 3 years shortly after marriage. nup nup nup. There’s nothing shady going on.

Cath Dad, others have given such great advice and ideas that I can’t add to those at the moment… only to say that this crazy period of life doesn’t go on forever.

“Hoping to build a modest 4 bedroom to host as many kids as possible.”

Having a large family can begin as the ideal goal, but always be attentive to how you are coping as a couple and a family as time passes. Sometimes we can be more concerned with appearances over the wellbeing of the family. I dreamed of that ideal of the huge family, stay home Mum, scenario… but found very quickly that I was struggling with day to day motherhood. It wasn’t until my children were into school that 2 of the 3 were diagnosed autistic which explained so many aspects that I had been putting down to my own incompetency. I have my three now all in their 20’s and while the middle not autistic one gives us trouble… I feel grateful that I was able to give the time and attention to the two that needed a fair bit of early intevention. They are both successful and independent as a result. It’s important to ‘feel’ your way through that issue of family size rather than have set in concrete plans.

 

[PolarGuy]

I’m REALLY unimpressed with some of the posters’ “advice”:

1. This is Dad’s fault because he “doesn’t know how to please his wife” sexually; or
2. This is Dad’s fault because his wife is up to something “shady;” or
3. This is Dad’s fault because he’s somehow “not a man” for not “securing” a place for his family to live (as if saving money, as opposed to irresponsibly borrowing more than one can afford to repay is somehow ‘manly.’

Seriously, folks: If the OP were a woman, would there ever be a hint of advice suggesting that she didn’t know how to please a man? No, of course not.

Double standards, as usual.

There would of course be advice that he was doing something shady, because there’s always the assumption that the husband is cheating.

 

[Rau]

…Marital status, number of children, whether or not you are or intend to become pregnant are all illegal questions vis-à-vis a mortgage application and CANNOT be considered in the mortgage lending process. I don’t understand why you believe your borrowing power is reduced based on the number of children you have.

In my jurisdiction, lending institutions are obligated to properly assess a borrower’s capacity to repay a loan. Simply accepting $ estimates of income and expenses from the applicant, divorced from the reality of circumstances, is unacceptable. Realistic expenses, number of incomes, etc impact ability to repay. Are the U.S. Lending institutions truly required to close their eyes to the facts when assessing a loan?

 

[underacloud]

This is Dad’s fault because he “doesn’t know how to please his wife” sexually;

Not a “fault” as such. No one has blamed him.

But married couples generally take time to learn how best to please each other, and this is a process that can take many years. Communication helps, but this is a topic that people can be too shy to raise in a frank manner.

Seriously, folks: If the OP were a woman, would there ever be a hint of advice suggesting that she didn’t know how to please a man? No, of course not.

Double standards, as usual.

Yes, double standards.

Why? Because men and women do generally differ in this regard. It is, in general, harder for women to experience pleasure from sex. For men, it is generally easier.

Anyway, perhaps you have some advice to offer the OP? Something constructive, rather than just criticism of others.