T
The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
"[63] It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. "
You seem to hang your entire objection to Catholic doctrine on John 6 on this one phrase. Several day ago I posted this commentary on this John 6:63:
(Please forgive the phrase number discrepency, for Hadock is using the Douay-Rhemes Bible where my quote came from the RSV)
Ver. 64. The flesh profiteth nothing. Dead flesh, separated from the spirit, in the gross manner they supposed they were to eat his flesh, would profit nothing. Neither doth man’s flesh, that is to say, man’s natural and carnal apprehension, (which refuses to be subject to the spirit, and words of Christ) profit any thing. But it would be the height of blasphemy, to say the living flesh of Christ (which we receive in the blessed sacrament, with his spirit, that is, with his soul and divinity) profiteth nothing.
For if Christ’s flesh had profited us nothing, he would never have taken flesh for us, nor died in the flesh for us.
— Are spirit and life. By proposing to you a heavenly sacrament, in which you shall receive, in a wonderful manner, spirit, grace and life. These words sufficiently correct the gross and carnal imagination of these Capharnaites, that he meant to them his body and blood to eat in a visible and bloody manner, as flesh, says St. Augustine, is sold in the market, and in the shambles;[3] but they do not imply a figurative or metaphorical presence only. The manner of Christ’s presence is spiritual and under the outward appearances of bread and wine; but yet he is there truly and really present, by a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of his body and blood, which truly and really become our spiritual food, and are truly and really received in the holy sacrament.
— The flesh[4] of itself profiteth nothing, not even the flesh of our Saviour Christ, were it not united to the divine person of Christ. But we must take care how we understand these words spoken by our Saviour: for it is certain, says St. Augustine, that the word made flesh, is the cause of all our happiness. (Witham)
— When I promise you life if you eat my flesh, I do not wish you to understand this of that gross and carnal manner, of cutting my members in pieces: such ideas are far from my mind: the flesh profiteth nothing. In the Scriptures, the word flesh is often put for the carnal manner of understanding any thing. If you wish to enter into the spirit of my words, raise your hearts to a more elevated and spiritual way of understanding them. (Calmet) —
The reader may consult Des Mahis, p. 165, a convert from Protestantism, and who has proved the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist in the most satisfactory manner, from the written word. Where he shows that Jesus Christ, speaking of his own body, never says the flesh, but my flesh: the former mode of expression is used to signify, as we have observed above, a carnal manner of understanding any thing.
Hadock commentary on John 6
In the Mass it is the words of Jesus that are used to consecrate the bread and the wine-“This is My Body…This IS the cup of My Blood…” thus fulfilling Peter’s proclamation,“You have the words of eternal life.”
Under outward appearances, yes, they seem to be just bread and wine. But the Church’s teaching on sacramental theology; that the sacraments are signs of what they are but at the same time they effect- they actually bring about-that which they signify, tell us that they are so much more.
The bread that is consecrated is at once the sign of Christ’s body and at the same time IS Christ’s divine body really and spiritually present. The wine that is blessed is the sign of Christ’s blood and at the same time IS Christ’s divine blood really and spiritually present.
While we consume physically bread and wine we are at the same time consuming Christ-the Manna from heaven, the Paschal Lamb, the Todah meal of thanksgiving and deliverance, the Eucharist.
I await your response…
You seem to hang your entire objection to Catholic doctrine on John 6 on this one phrase. Several day ago I posted this commentary on this John 6:63:
(Please forgive the phrase number discrepency, for Hadock is using the Douay-Rhemes Bible where my quote came from the RSV)
Ver. 64. The flesh profiteth nothing. Dead flesh, separated from the spirit, in the gross manner they supposed they were to eat his flesh, would profit nothing. Neither doth man’s flesh, that is to say, man’s natural and carnal apprehension, (which refuses to be subject to the spirit, and words of Christ) profit any thing. But it would be the height of blasphemy, to say the living flesh of Christ (which we receive in the blessed sacrament, with his spirit, that is, with his soul and divinity) profiteth nothing.
For if Christ’s flesh had profited us nothing, he would never have taken flesh for us, nor died in the flesh for us.
— Are spirit and life. By proposing to you a heavenly sacrament, in which you shall receive, in a wonderful manner, spirit, grace and life. These words sufficiently correct the gross and carnal imagination of these Capharnaites, that he meant to them his body and blood to eat in a visible and bloody manner, as flesh, says St. Augustine, is sold in the market, and in the shambles;[3] but they do not imply a figurative or metaphorical presence only. The manner of Christ’s presence is spiritual and under the outward appearances of bread and wine; but yet he is there truly and really present, by a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of his body and blood, which truly and really become our spiritual food, and are truly and really received in the holy sacrament.
— The flesh[4] of itself profiteth nothing, not even the flesh of our Saviour Christ, were it not united to the divine person of Christ. But we must take care how we understand these words spoken by our Saviour: for it is certain, says St. Augustine, that the word made flesh, is the cause of all our happiness. (Witham)
— When I promise you life if you eat my flesh, I do not wish you to understand this of that gross and carnal manner, of cutting my members in pieces: such ideas are far from my mind: the flesh profiteth nothing. In the Scriptures, the word flesh is often put for the carnal manner of understanding any thing. If you wish to enter into the spirit of my words, raise your hearts to a more elevated and spiritual way of understanding them. (Calmet) —
The reader may consult Des Mahis, p. 165, a convert from Protestantism, and who has proved the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist in the most satisfactory manner, from the written word. Where he shows that Jesus Christ, speaking of his own body, never says the flesh, but my flesh: the former mode of expression is used to signify, as we have observed above, a carnal manner of understanding any thing.
Hadock commentary on John 6
In the Mass it is the words of Jesus that are used to consecrate the bread and the wine-“This is My Body…This IS the cup of My Blood…” thus fulfilling Peter’s proclamation,“You have the words of eternal life.”
Under outward appearances, yes, they seem to be just bread and wine. But the Church’s teaching on sacramental theology; that the sacraments are signs of what they are but at the same time they effect- they actually bring about-that which they signify, tell us that they are so much more.
The bread that is consecrated is at once the sign of Christ’s body and at the same time IS Christ’s divine body really and spiritually present. The wine that is blessed is the sign of Christ’s blood and at the same time IS Christ’s divine blood really and spiritually present.
While we consume physically bread and wine we are at the same time consuming Christ-the Manna from heaven, the Paschal Lamb, the Todah meal of thanksgiving and deliverance, the Eucharist.
I await your response…
Did you know that Commentaries are a Type of Majisterium? A teaching authority. *
