For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

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Hi, My Muslim friend said why use such poor language to show love after I told him:

I think the “heaping of coals” comes by way of overcoming evil with good so to help our enemies become aware of their shameful evil behaviors in order that they may come to a place of Godly sorrow that leads them repentance. So this is a statement of love for our enemy.

Why do they use this language? Thank you!

"Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore

If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.(Romans 12:17-21)
 
i think it is respectful and sometimes true, in the Hungarian language (im hungarian btw but ive been raised in Canada, im 16 ) it is almost the exact same but translated it would sound like: For in doing so, you will throw ashes on his head. Very true at times, and guilt would drive to repentance, which would lead them to conversion, which if lived effectivley would lead them to Heaven. Which is what I hope we want for everyone!!! 🙂
 
Its just an expression of metaphor, and that expression was probably common in those days, and if im correct, its an Old Testament expression. All languages and all cultures have their own expressions that are common to themselves. An 80’s term i remember is someone being bad to the bone. I can only imagine how that sounds to someone who’s not accustomed to that kind of language! 🙂
 
St. Paul is quoting Proverbs 25:21-22

[BIBLEDRB]Proverbs 25:21-22[/BIBLEDRB]

The NAB footnote on the proverb:
A memorable statement of humanity and moderation; such sentiments could be occasionally found even outside the Bible, e.g., “It is better to bless someone than to do harm to one who has insulted you” (Egyptian Papyrus Insinger). Cf. Ex 23:4 and Lv 19:17–18. Human beings should not take it upon themselves to exact vengeance, leaving it rather in God’s hands. This saying has in view an enemy’s vulnerability in time of need, in this case extreme hunger and thirst; such a need should not be an occasion for revenge. The motive for restraining oneself is to allow God’s justice to take its own course, as in 20:22 and 24:17–19. Live coals: either remorse and embarrassment for the harm done, or increased punishment for refusing reconciliation. Cf. Mt 5:44. Rom 12:20 cites the Greek version and interprets it, “Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good.”

Haydock’s note on the proverb:
Coals of charity; (St. Chrysostom in Romans xii. 20.) or, if he prove obstinate, his punishment will be the greater. (Geier.) — The former sense is more received. (Calmet)I think the “greater punishment” refers to in Hell.

Haydock’s note on Romans 12:20:
Thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. This figurative way of speaking is differently expounded. Some say, inasmuch as by this means thou shalt make him liable to greater punishments from God. Others, as St. Jerome and St. Augustine, by coals of fire, understand kindnesses and benefits, which shall touch the heart, and inflame the affections even of thy enemies, which shall make them sorry for what they have done, and become thy friends. (Witham)

Regardless of how it is interpreted, the instruction is clear:
If someone who has previously insulted, hated and even physically attacked us finds himself in need later on, we must help him.
 
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
 
St_Francis said:
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
Click to expand...
I like that way of seeing it. I had not thought of it that way before. Thanks.
 
Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it’s like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
 
feed_me said:
Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it’s like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
Click to expand...
Nope. However, since evil is depravity of good (even perhaps of common sense), I wouldn’t be surprised if there were someone who expected such a thing.
 
SonCatcher said:
St. Paul is quoting Proverbs 25:21-22

[BIBLEDRB]Proverbs 25:21-22[/BIBLEDRB]

The NAB footnote on the proverb:
A memorable statement of humanity and moderation; such sentiments could be occasionally found even outside the Bible, e.g., “It is better to bless someone than to do harm to one who has insulted you” (Egyptian Papyrus Insinger). Cf. Ex 23:4 and Lv 19:17–18. Human beings should not take it upon themselves to exact vengeance, leaving it rather in God’s hands. This saying has in view an enemy’s vulnerability in time of need, in this case extreme hunger and thirst; such a need should not be an occasion for revenge. The motive for restraining oneself is to allow God’s justice to take its own course, as in 20:22 and 24:17–19. Live coals: either remorse and embarrassment for the harm done, or increased punishment for refusing reconciliation. Cf. Mt 5:44. Rom 12:20 cites the Greek version and interprets it, “Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good.”

Haydock’s note on the proverb:
Coals of charity; (St. Chrysostom in Romans xii. 20.) or, if he prove obstinate, his punishment will be the greater. (Geier.) — The former sense is more received. (Calmet)I think the “greater punishment” refers to in Hell.

Haydock’s note on Romans 12:20:
Thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. This figurative way of speaking is differently expounded. Some say, inasmuch as by this means thou shalt make him liable to greater punishments from God. Others, as St. Jerome and St. Augustine, by coals of fire, understand kindnesses and benefits, which shall touch the heart, and inflame the affections even of thy enemies, which shall make them sorry for what they have done, and become thy friends. (Witham)

Regardless of how it is interpreted, the instruction is clear:
If someone who has previously insulted, hated and even physically attacked us finds himself in need later on, we must help him.
Click to expand...
Well said, thank you very much! Where did you get the quotes? Do you have a LOGOS Catholic software or something?
 
feed_me said:
Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it’s like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
Click to expand...
There are people who do these things for various reasons; some or psychologically / spiritually ill, other may be just lazy and or greedy, etc. But like one person commented, God will judge them, perhaps even more severely? If we aren’t aware of our sins, then we might not be as culpable and judged as such. But that doesn’t mean we should not spread the Good News of the Gospel.
 
St_Francis said:
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
COPLAND_3 said:
Its just an expression of metaphor, and that expression was probably common in those days, and if im correct, its an Old Testament expression. All languages and all cultures have their own expressions that are common to themselves. An 80’s term i remember is someone being bad to the bone. I can only imagine how that sounds to someone who’s not accustomed to that kind of language! 🙂
Click to expand...
but BAD TO THE BONE, still means BAD right? Not Good? I think I get what your saying though, some people say your bad, and mean your good.
 
mymamamary said:
i think it is respectful and sometimes true, in the Hungarian language (im hungarian btw but ive been raised in Canada, im 16 ) it is almost the exact same but translated it would sound like: For in doing so, you will throw ashes on his head. Very true at times, and guilt would drive to repentance, which would lead them to conversion, which if lived effectivley would lead them to Heaven. Which is what I hope we want for everyone!!! 🙂
Click to expand...
Awesome, 16! You are in a great place spiritually it seems. May God Bless You and keep you strong ever growing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks for the comment.
 
St_Francis said:
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
Click to expand...
not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.

You mean instead of showing love, a person gets angry at their enemy which would produce in the enemy a quick effect that does no good?
 
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