For Info on Jehovah's Witnesses and Blood Transfusions

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This article and this one boht show how the Bible was right all along, stay away from blood. If youshouldn’t eat it how much more so should you not inject it. common sense. unless of course you have no faith in God or His Word. We all know that God wants us to obey His commands unless society feels they are out of date.
 
mattharris said:
This article and this one boht show how the Bible was right all along, stay away from blood. If youshouldn’t eat it how much more so should you not inject it. common sense. unless of course you have no faith in God or His Word. We all know that God wants us to obey His commands unless society feels they are out of date.
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What about the command that we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood if we are to have eternal life?
 
mattharris said:
This article and this one boht show how the Bible was right all along, stay away from blood. If youshouldn’t eat it how much more so should you not inject it. common sense. unless of course you have no faith in God or His Word. We all know that God wants us to obey His commands unless society feels they are out of date.
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As I asked in the other blood thread, can you post any links of medical journals or the like with group controls and not just ones with one statistic? News articles are never 100% reliable.
 
who cares if some people survive without blood transfusions? Some people survive without using (or because of not using) seatbelts too. The overwhelming evidence is that when a medical doctor says you need a transfusion—you need a transfusion. It is a medical proceedure—can’t even compare it to food. And of course it is not right to EAT blood other than Christs! We make a BLOOD covenant with HIM!
Ravyn
 
As most of you probably know the Jehovah’s Witness leadership forbids JWs from taking blood transfusions under the penalty of shunning and possible excommunication even if blood is needed to save that person’s life. It is unknown exactly how many JWs have died due to this prohibition which was enacted around 1961. One of the ways in which the JWs have rationalized this prohibition is to equate receiving a blood transfusion to that of eating blood. They believe that since the following scripture forbids Christians to eat blood that this prohibition would also include blood transfusions:
For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper.
Good health to YOU!”-Acts 15:28, 29 New World Translation
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The Watchtower magazine explains things in the following way:
It is of no consequence that the blood is taken into the body through the veins instead of the mouth. Nor does the claim by some that it is not the same as intravenous feeding carry weight. The fact is that it nourishes or sustains the life of the body. In harmony with this is a statement in the book
Hemorrhage and Transfusion, by George W. Crile, A.M., M.D., who quotes a letter from Denys, French physician and early researcher in the field of transfusions. It says: “In performing transfusion it is nothing else than nourishing by a shorter road than ordinary—that is to say, placing in the veins blood
all made in place of taking food which only turns to blood after several changes.”-September 15th 1961 Watchtower page 558
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Note that the Watchtower author quotes from two physicians as authorities who supposedly believe that even from a medical perspective eating human blood and transfusing human
blood are considered the same thing. For the unsuspecting JW who believes that the Watchtower leadership is speaking for God it would never occur to them to look and see if these two doctors are really saying this or if they are even legitimate authorities on the subject of blood and blood transfusions.

According to the article The Evolution of the Watchtower Blood Policy by Zack Daniels the Watchtower author does not tell the unsuspecting JW the following:
“What the Society didn’t bother to tell anyone in either of these quotes however was that the book Hemorrhage and Transfusion: An Experimental and Clinical Research had been published in 1909 and could not by any stretch of the imagination have been considered an authoritative medical text 52 years later. Further, the Society did not inform anyone that Jean Babtiste Denys had done his research in the 1600’s and had been dead for 257 years by 1961. Much more disturbing than these two lapses however is the way in which this quote deliberately gives the incorrect impression that the viewpoint being promoted was one which had the support of a semi-modern medical authority, George W. Crile himself.” ajwrb.org/history/index.shtml#evolution
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One of the most powerful ways to break the hold of the Watchtower Leaders on the average JW is to demonstrate these examples of academic dishonesty. However, one must be careful
how you go about sharing this information. Usually, when I have coached others to do this in the past what works most effectively is to show the JW the quote from the Watchtower and then have them read the original quote. Once this is done, I usually ask them if there is anything about this that seems strange to them. In some cases, the JW will not see the problem. Or, at least, they will not tell you that they see the problem. Also, the JW may say that he needs to show this to an elder in his congregation. If this happens it is not unusual for the JW never to return to speak to you. However, this is okay because you have planted a seed that over time can take root.

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com
 
 
mattharris said:
OK
Perhaps you are more medicalese literate than the average person.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=9179119&dopt=Citation

jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/238/12/1256


http://www.annalsofsurgery.com/pt/re/annos/abstract.00000658-200408000-00022.htm;jsessionid=GyJphvfVDrcTVp3jbsQRlfRJ1ncynvWffT0rLvSLZz2GNn9LV595!-1804036389!-949856145!8091!-1

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1460708&dopt=Citation
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funny but I could count on one hand the number of JW doctors I have met in my lifetime say compared to JW carpet cleaners and auto-detailers and oh–I don’t know- cleaning contractors…kinda’ hard to become a doctor when you are not allowed to attend Medical School tho, so I understand.
so I guess JWs just automatically assume that ‘worldy’ people could not understand medical stuff because they (JWs) don’t. After all what was it? 4 years of reading the Awake used to be equivalent to a college education? And I know I could definitely compete with Seminary students after I went to Pioneer Service School!
sarcasm intended. :rolleyes: :banghead:
Ravyn
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
funny but I could count on one hand the number of JW doctors I have met in my lifetime say compared to JW carpet cleaners and auto-detailers and oh–I don’t know- cleaning contractors…kinda’ hard to become a doctor when you are not allowed to attend Medical School tho, so I understand.
so I guess JWs just automatically assume that ‘worldy’ people could not understand medical stuff because they (JWs) don’t. After all what was it? 4 years of reading the Awake used to be equivalent to a college education? And I know I could definitely compete with Seminary students after I went to Pioneer Service School!
sarcasm intended. :rolleyes: :banghead:
Ravyn
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Thanks for the ad hominem :crying:

OF course you read the abstracts i listed.:rolleyes:

You perhaps are not worth replying to since you have trouble staying on topic from one post to the next.😦
 
Jeff - do you have any reliable medical sources which have refuted the claims made by that doctor. (Outside of any which are direct attacks on JW’s?) I am limiting your scope because faith goes both ways. Please show me a neutral or dispassionate paper.
 
mattharris said:
Thanks for the ad hominem :crying:

OF course you read the abstracts i listed.:rolleyes:

You perhaps are not worth replying to since you have trouble staying on topic from one post to the next.😦
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I am not in the slightest bit interested in reading anything you listed. What JWs fail to understand is that blood transfusions are non-issues for anyone but themselves. And there is nothing I can learn from JW pups, there are MEN in Bethel who I changed their diapers. The JW religion appeals to young men because it’s very proud and arrogant. But there is a difference between pride and confidence. Confidence of knowing you have the fullness of truth does not have to be continually questioned and proven and argued.
I pray for your conversion Matt.
Do your elders know you are in here talking to apostates?
Ravyn
 
mattharris said:
This article and this one boht show how the Bible was right all along, stay away from blood. If youshouldn’t eat it how much more so should you not inject it. common sense. unless of course you have no faith in God or His Word. We all know that God wants us to obey His commands unless society feels they are out of date.
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Why don’t JWs keep kosher then? I honestly can’t understand this.
 
mattharris said:
Jeff - do you have any reliable medical sources which have refuted the claims made by that doctor. (Outside of any which are direct attacks on JW’s?) I am limiting your scope because faith goes both ways. Please show me a neutral or dispassionate paper.
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since anything not from the WTBS, or that contradicts what they say, is considered to be attacking JWs -my guess would be that there is nothing you would accept. So why ask?
Ravyn
 
Jeff - do you have any reliable medical sources which have refuted the claims made by that doctor. (Outside of any which are direct attacks on JW’s?) I am limiting your scope because faith goes both ways. Please show me a neutral or dispassionate paper.
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Hi:

Which doctor are you talking about and what claims are you talking about?

Jeff S.
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
since anything not from the WTBS, or that contradicts what they say, is considered to be attacking JWs -my guess would be that there is nothing you would accept. So why ask?
Ravyn
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Another ad hominem response/attack? Does anyone here stay on topic?:confused:

IF the source does not specifically reference JW’s then it is not an attack. 👍 That is obvious. Apparently I will not be talking with you either since your desire is to be argumentative rather than actually discuss the topic. 😊 I hope there are some people here who do want to actually discuss the topics and not fight.:o
 
mattharris said:
Jeff - do you have any reliable medical sources which have refuted the claims made by that doctor. (Outside of any which are direct attacks on JW’s?) I am limiting your scope because faith goes both ways. Please show me a neutral or dispassionate paper.
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Hi Matt:

Are you referring to the doctors in the links you provided?

I want to preface this by saying that I do hope that one day this is a moot issue and that surgery involving donor transfusions will be a thing of the past.

I read into the articles that although it is encouraging that they show that bloodless surgery can be done and successful but right now for certain types of people it is a riskier type of surgery than what’s being done currently. That’s not a direct quote from any of the articles. Its what I understood after reading all of them.
 
Jeff there was a comment about the information the WT used was from 1909. Has that information been contradicted by medical professionals?
 
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