You quoted excaliber in this post, hopefully he’ll correct me if I’m wrong but I think Excaliber is addressing the attitude of JW’s and saying that all the arguments presented here will have no weight with them. To me it seems he’s stating how you would have to approach them if you wanted to convert them.
And that is probably true. What I’m saying is that the whole mormon idea of a great apostacy collapses because of the dishonesty of the founder of mormonism. Neither mormon “scriptures” nor “authorities” can prove or demonstrate when this general apostacy took place. This is their only basis for the necessity for a “restored” religion. mormonism is just another man-made sect.
Gee. You should look around. The LDS have quite a door-to-door ministry. Some of the Evangelical churches do too. Some Catholics groups go door-to-door too (the Blue Army has some) and some Catholic apologists even argued on street corners (I think the arguments were published in a book) plus others offer apologetic programs on the radio). The thing is that there are many ways to evangelize and no one seems to have a “corner” on it.
We aren’t talking about the Catholic Church.
Are you sure? I believe that Jesus (hmmm–JWs equate Jesus with God?–I thought they thought of Jesus as “a” god) told His disciples to “preach the Gospel to all nations”. I didn’t think He said “go door-to-door proseltytizing”. There are other ways of “preaching”, some just by example.
Im just saying that you can’t go bear hunting with a fishing pole.
If your interested in saving souls, don’t fish with the wrong bait.
I will be glad to tell you. I haven’t a clue how the JWs define the Apostasy, and I am not interested to know either. But I can tell you how LDS define the Apostasy. Since this is a perennial question that comes up, I have written a lengthy article in my Blog to deal with it, and address all the objections that are commonly raised against it. You can read it here. Have a read through it, and if you have any further questions bring up and we will talk about it.
I don’t know about the JWs, and don’t care either. But I assure you that I don’t. Read the above article to find out why.
Jesus was God, and Joseph Smith was His prophet and Apostle. No idea who Russell was, and don’t care either. The Apostasy occured because the Bible tells us so, and modern revelation tells us so too.
Read my article to find out the answer to all of these questions.
Actually, JW is not a “restoration” church. “Restoration” is something that can only be brought about by revelation. Joseph Smith brought that about by direct revelation from heaven. There were visions; there were ministration of angels; there were the restoration of priesthoods by heavenly messengers; there were additional scripture given by revelation to augment and/or correct doctrine, which are canonized. That is why the LDS Church is called a “Restoration” Church. As far as I know JWs don’t make such a claim, therefore they cannot be described as a “restoration” church.
Now we get to what version. I have several from the King James to the Duoay-Rheimes to a few others that are also faithful to the original manuscripts. I don’t use the New World Translation that I understand the JWs use and there is a reason for it–it differs substantially from all the best translations of our time. And no I didn’t use Bible quotes in my post. I didn’t need to and besides that unless the quotes were from the NWT, JWs will not be convinced. The verses must come from their Bible alone.
I would say the same thing about Charles Taze Russell, he was also a crook and a con-man, a man of defective character, the founder of a false cult.
Now your talkin!!!Now we get to what version. I have several from the King James to the Duoay-Rheimes to a few others that are also faithful to the original manuscripts. I don’t use the New World Translation that I understand the JWs use and there is a reason for it–it differs substantially from all the best translations of our time. And no I didn’t use Bible quotes in my post. I didn’t need to and besides that unless the quotes were from the NWT, JWs will not be convinced. The verses must come from their Bible alone.
BTW, the JWs that have knocked on my door (and that of my neighbors) mainly use The Watchtower
I understand what your saying.
That is about the same as the Protestant position, who describe their movement as a “Reformation” rather than a “Restoration”.
We believe an open canon of scripture. We believe that one of the charicteristics of God’s true church is that it is able to receive revelation, and add to the canon of scripture, as the ancient true churches were able to do. Also, we don’t claim that the LDS Church is just an identikit of the first century church. It is a new dispensation of the gospel, in which additional truths have been revealed and will continue to be revealed in the future that may not have existed in the first century church.
That’s interesting. Do mormons speak in toungs and have healing abilities? How much of what the early church did can mormons do?
Yes, those gifts do exist in the LDS Church; but they are not intended for public display, nor to “prove” to people the truth of the Church. That was not their purpose in the early church either. Faith does not come by signs; signs follow them that beleive. Miracles come according to the faith of mankind. We don’t perform miracles to prove to people that the Church is true. Jesus and the Apostles did not either.
I didn’t know much about the miracles of Fatima, so I just looked it up on the Internet to find out. I cannot comment on the miracles of Fatima; although to be honest I am sceptical of it after reading up on it a little. We don’t claim to have a monopoly of miracles. I think that miracles can happen to people of other religions according to their faiths and prayers. But the impression I am getting is that you are looking for signs and miracles to bolster your faith, or as proof of the truthfulness of a religion. That is not the purpose of miracles; and God never gives miracles to people in order to make them believe. Signs follow faith; faith does not follow signs.
Hi Z,
Quality over Quantity?