For Mormons, what does `follow the Prophet’ really mean?

[pinay]

One of the biggest problems about using the “Holy Ghost” as the proof of the belief is the double-bind it puts a person in. If they pray about the Book of Mormon, and they receive a witness, than it is true. If a person prays and they do not receive a witness, maybe they didn’t pray enough, or maybe they are not sincere in their desire to hear from God, or maybe they are hiding sin, or maybe they don’t like someone in the church. It’s never not true because it’s not true. It’s not true because of a fault in the person praying.

Although it was hard for a while, little Johnny eventually moved in with Sam’s family. Their father treated him like a true son. He spoke with him and gave him cookies regularly. And although his brothers and sisters sneered at his decision, and hounded him constantly to come back to the family, little Johnny was finally where he belonged. He was happy.

Also, it seems we have gotten to what tends to be the end of any argument about the truthfulness of the LDS religion with a believing LDS member - “I prayed about it and know it’s true.” Well, technically, any religion is based on faith.

Hi Stavros. You make good points on both posts but it is not quite indicative of LDS faith. Yes, it is a common reaction among LDS members that if you don’t receive witness of the truth of the Book of Mormon then something is lacking in the person’s appeal…

But, this is not LDS doctrine.

LDS Article of Faith (basic declaration of belief) states that:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Therefore, we don’t buy into the notion of “my Holy Spirit is better than your Holy Spirit”. Truths are found everywhere… LDS or otherwise… so much so that another one of the LDS Articles of Faith states that:
If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Therefore, in your opening statement… if somebody reads the Book of Mormon in sincere, diligent search for truth, asking God to bear witness to the truth of it… then receives no witness, then it is not for that person to take as truth. Plain and simple.

Therefore, when I was a devout Catholic following the tenets and teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church receiving several manifestations from the Holy Spirit on the truthfulness of the doctrines I found there, it wasn’t that I was wrong - or that the Holy Spirit was wrong - or that I misunderstood the Holy Spirit that guided me in the Catholic Church. It was that at that point in my life that is where my spiritual progression needed to be. Finding truth in LDS doctrine does not make that progression wrong. It only brought me closer to where the Holy Spirit needed me to be to get to exaltation.

This journey is only for me. Your journey is your own to figure out. We are unique individuals with our own capacity for learning.

What is important is that you continue to seek diligently and honestly, appealing to God and learning His will and following that. So that we lean not on our own understanding but put our trust in Him with all our hearts and submit to His will that He may guide us to the path of eternal life.

And here’s the icing on this personal nugget - when I was Catholic, I never subscribed to the notion that anybody who is not Catholic are going to hell. So, in all honesty - I have believed all throughout my life that the Holy Spirit guides us to where we can progress the farthest - whether it be in the Catholic church or outside of it so much so that I do not question a protestant telling me he felt the burning of the Spirit in his bossom as he raises his hands in worship in the Baptist church, etc. Just like how Jesus taught in parables to those who are not ready for a higher understanding, the Holy Spirit manifests truths to us line upon line, precept upon precept.

 

[Auriel]

This journey is only for me. Your journey is your own to figure out. We are unique individuals with our own capacity for learning.

What is important is that you continue to seek diligently and honestly, appealing to God and learning His will and following that. So that we lean not on our own understanding but put our trust in Him with all our hearts and submit to His will that He may guide us to the path of eternal life.

I’m not a Mormon but that about sums out how I feel about spirituality when all is said and done.

My grt (x5) grandfather was one of the original Mormon pioneers. I used to wonder what would cause him leave his way of life and follow this prophet with a radical new religion. And I wondered if the polygamist lifestyle was a factor. I would feel offended though when others suggested he was a dirty old man, because hey, they were talking about a relative. LOL

But that lifestyle was very dangerous, even more so during that time period. I’m convinced now that he was sincere in his beliefs to follow something that to me seems so radical.

And they are great little genealogist, for that I’m grateful. And of course they will always have a branch in my tree.

 

[Arandur]

I can argue for or against the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

I can argue for or against evolution.

I can argue for or against the Flood.

I can argue for or against the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I can argue for or against the existence of the descendants of Lehi.

And where does that get anyone? Nowhere.

All these things are not something you take upon your own meager understanding. All these things you study through an appeal to the Holy Spirit.

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and beyond cure.” Jeremiah 17:9

Of course we should consult God. But it’s not just the typical LDS test of the “burning bosom” or personal testimonies that should be the be all and end all.

By trusting our own interpretations of Scripture, history, or even personal, spiritual experience, we yield hundreds of thousands of religious denominations and strains of philosophical thought. And that’s not even getting into the deception of other spiritual forces.

We are given the gift of reason by God to be used to come to knowledge of Truth. We are not supposed to rely solely on personal testimonies, much less those of others. Our own interpretations of our experiences (unreliable subjectivity) must match up with all the other sources of Truth (objective and consistent). And that is what we can and should discuss.

Anyone not willing to engage in an honest discussion of objective truth, instead seeking shelter among “testimonies” and suchlike, insodoing denies the existence of absolute truth and simultaneously sets him or herself up as one’s own authority, one’s own god.

Anyone not willing to admit that their belief in their own personal testimonies could possibly be wrong (an errant interpretation of what they’ve experienced), and that objective truth and reason should corroborate or invalidate those claims, commits the same blasphemy and self-idolatry.

So actually, it is the issues that are worth discussing, and the primary proof, not so much the personal testimonies or personal interpretations of what one believes the Spirit is saying.

 

[SteveVH]

Therefore, in your opening statement… if somebody reads the Book of Mormon in sincere, diligent search for truth, asking God to bear witness to the truth of it… then receives no witness, then it is not for that person to take as truth. Plain and simple.

Pinay, there are not different truths. What exactly are you saying here? That it doesn’t really matter what one believes? One “truth” works for me and one “truth” works for you?
I certainly believe that all religions contain truth in varying degrees, but all except the one, true Church also contain error and are lacking in the fullness of truth. I would never tell another person “I guess that Catholic Church just isn’t for you.” I believe it is for everyone and those not in it are lacking. I will be the first to admit that our Christian brothers and sisters outside of the Catholic Church have a very real, meaningful relationship with God. I know many and their faith is admirable. I just long for them to have the fullness of that relationship. To me it is the difference between holding hands with your girlfriend (very nice, and very real) and then consummating your marriage on your wedding night.

This journey is only for me. Your journey is your own to figure out. We are unique individuals with our own capacity for learning.

I guess this is where your philosophy probably originates. I see the Church as the journey of the people of God, his adopted sons and daughters, the body of Christ, of which I am a part. The journey is not just about me.

 

[zaffiroborant]

This journey is only for me. Your journey is your own to figure out. We are unique individuals with our own capacity for learning.

What is important is that you continue to seek diligently and honestly, appealing to God and learning His will and following that. So that we lean not on our own understanding but put our trust in Him with all our hearts and submit to His will that He may guide us to the path of eternal life.

Pinay, there are not different truths. What exactly are you saying here? That it doesn’t really matter what one believes? One “truth” works for me and one “truth” works for you?

I guess this is where your philosophy probably originates. I see the Church as the journey of the people of God, his adopted sons and daughters, the body of Christ, of which I am a part. The journey is not just about me.

I find this strain of thought a bit confusing “This journey is only for me & We are unique individuals” since in LDS theology no one can be saved individually.

 

[ParkerD]

Very interesting…

SedesDomi,

To answer your question, to me “follow the Prophet” means that just as Moses said “would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!” after “Eldad and Medad” did “prophesy in the camp” (Numbers 11:29, 27), active LDS members seek the spirit of prophecy and the spirit of revelation in their individual lives by practicing personal righteousness and by studying the scriptures and heeding the promptings of the Holy Ghost, but yet just as Moses was the leading prophet among the children of Israel there is a leading prophet today for the LDS members to listen to as the one who guides toward being ready for whatever may come in our collective path on this earth in our day. That leading prophet is assisted by two counselors and by twelve called apostles who as your article said, are also sustained by vote of the members as “prophets, seers, and revelators” and who unitedly take part in bringing the fullness of the gospel to the ends of the earth.

“Follow the Prophet” would mean a very similar thing to an LDS member today as a member who followed the leadership of Peter may be expected to have felt during Peter’s lifetime after the ascension of Christ.

As LDS members listen to these men during the next couple of days, and also to others called under their direction including general women leaders who also provide meaningful counsel to the members, then they feel a united sense of having heard the “word of the Lord” and of knowing what the Savior would have us do to discern the signs of the times and prepare for His Second Coming in steady, meaningful ways in our everyday lives, whether His Second Coming be in twenty years, fifty years, or whatever the time frame.

 

[rmcmullan]

Follow The Prophet means Mormons believe in continuing revelation. Public revelation.

As I understand it, Catholics believe that all that needs to be revealed has been revealed. Any new church practice derives from the sacred tradition and an scholarly analysis of what has already been revealed.

Protestants reject the Catholic tradition and claim all the authority from their personal understanding of the Bible. Sola Scriptura.

Mormons believe that god reveales his will to his servants the prophets. See Amos 3:7. And that there are prophets today as of old. They’re more Solo Propheta!

 

[JeanMichel]

Follow the Prophet means that they speak the truth until another Prophet says they are wrong. Poygamy is a revealed truth from God until you get in trouble with the State and then polygamy is wrong. Blacks are not allowed to be included in the priesthood until you are accused of racism and then God changes His mind.

Far from infallibility, this seems to be just the opposite. The Catholic Church never changes a doctrine. The LDS change doctrines at the drop of a hat.

I think your interpretation of what Mormons believe is very narrow and harsh. I suspect that when a Mormon hears follow the prophet it means the same thing to them that we feel when we hear follow the pope.

On another thread about the pope asking for a day of prayer with all people regardless of religion, there was a huge number of people who condemned the Pope for such an activity. I know of Mormons who disregard what their prophet says also. Mormons are human and just like Catholics. Some are obedient to the Pope and some aren’t.

I thank God that he changed doctrines and dogmas with the advent of Jesus. God changed the religion, the old was done away with, and the new became the new covenant. We have the choice to either accept the new covenant just as the Jews did; I pray we embrace it and honor it daily; that our lives reflect the true light of Christ in all our words and our actions.