? for Muslims: If Allah is not Trinity, then why does the Quran show that when Allah speaks He uses "We" & "Us"?

[SingleMomMonica]

Well…The god that muslims worship excludes OUR GOD! Jesus the Christ. I’m well aware of the paragraph that you refer to. Do you also follow the part of the CCC that says that the Orthodox Church lacks the full knowledge by rejecting the role of the successor of Peter. I don’t. I believe that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are sister Churches with the full knowledge.

I guess I’m just a bad Catholic.

I left the Catholic Church and became an Orthodox Christian, so the answer is “No, I don’t follow the Catechism at all”.

But even I know that if a Catholic is “Loyal to the Holy See” then they should follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Every Single issue without exception.

You need to either change your mind to be in line with the teachings of the Holy See, through the CCC, or you need to be honest with yourself and everyone on CAF, by correcting your Religion so that it no longer reads a lie. Then go to Confession.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

No it doesn’t… You just made that up. You could also explain why 29:46 of the Qur’an says to the Christians and Jews ‘our God is your God’.

Interesting!

The Quran and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are in agreement that The God Muslims and Catholics worship is the same God!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Interesting!

The Quran and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are in agreement that The God Muslims and Catholics worship is the same God!

Actually, the Quran goes on to say that Christians and Jews are following false beliefs about God…so the two sources also agree that the other side worships the same God “defectively.”

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Actually, the Quran goes on to say that Christians and Jews are following false beliefs about God…so the two sources also agree that the other side worships the same God “defectively.”

Well I think that that line of thinking is mutual between the two groups. I don’t have the CCC in front of me, but doesn’t it also elude to Muslims worship the same God, but without full knowledge of Who God is?

 

[Mosacked]

Well I think that that line of thinking is mutual between the two groups. I don’t have the CCC in front of me, but doesn’t it also elude to Muslims worship the same God, but without full knowledge of Who God is?

Monica, how can they be worshipping the same god when the bible declares them as the Antichrist 1 John 2:22? When they are instructed to slaughter christians in the quran? When they deny the name of Yahweh? Can i say i am your brother but seek to kill your siblings and your father warned u about my being an evil liar and i call ur father, Saddam? You must have more sense than that.

 

[spn82756]

I left the Catholic Church and became an Orthodox Christian, so the answer is “No, I don’t follow the Catechism at all”.

But even I know that if a Catholic is “Loyal to the Holy See” then they should follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Every Single issue without exception.

You need to either change your mind to be in line with the teachings of the Holy See, through the CCC, or you need to be honest with yourself and everyone on CAF, by correcting your Religion so that it no longer reads a lie. Then go to Confession.

Thanks for the advice. But you worry about you and I’ll worry about me.

 

[ExLuxLucis]

I believe it is simply the royal pronoun (pluralis majestis, I think) used in english translation. Before John Paul I, all popes referred to themselves by it as well. It is used to convey a sense of dignity. I doubt that Muslims would see this as evidence of the Holy Trinity. However, there are perhaps other such evidences in their book which may point towards the same.

Besides, Muslims also read the Qur’an in Arabic as they believe that the textual integrity is watered down when the book is translated. The original Arabic rendition of the language may be different, for all we know.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Ooo! I know this one! It’s called sometimes the royal-we. In Latin, sometimes a person refers to himself in the first person plural form especially in the case of royalty. We would expect the normal “I”, but “we” was used also in English amongst royalty, e.g. Queen Victoria.

I’m a college student studying Latin, I remember an example of this from Dido’s final speech as she was lying on the funeral pyre made from Aeneas’ stuff in her bedroom chamber, stabbing herself with his Trojan dagger. She asks her self something like :

OskarMayer (what kind of car do you drive?) has it spot on. In the Qur’an, God is spoken of mainly in the third person, though occasionally in first person plural. Much as in Latin. Also, as a Latin student you may be interested to know that Arabic has an inflected case system, though with only the nominative, genitive, and accusative. Arabic also has a dual number as in Greek, but not as in Latin. Of course Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, etc. are Semitic languages and have their own amazing system of morphology.

As to Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit, I commend to you a study of the life and work of William Jones, who was the first to notice a relationship between Greek, Latin and Sanskrit. He was a justice on the India Suprem Court (in colonial times) and his translation of the play Sacontala was a basis for Goethe’s Faust.

Best of luck with Latin. You will never regret it.

 

[Mosacked]

I believe it is simply the royal pronoun (pluralis majestis, I think) used in english translation. Before John Paul I, all popes referred to themselves by it as well. It is used to convey a sense of dignity. I doubt that Muslims would see this as evidence of the Holy Trinity. However, there are perhaps other such evidences in their book which may point towards the same.

Besides, Muslims also read the Qur’an in Arabic as they believe that the textual integrity is watered down when the book is translated. The original Arabic rendition of the language may be different, for all we know.

The Islamic entity of worship has 99 names, one of which is allah.

The God of the Jews & Christians has only 1 name - YAHWEH.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

The Islamic entity of worship has 99 names, one of which is allah.

The God of the Jews & Christians has only 1 name - YAHWEH.

Actually technically there are many names for God in Hebrew depending on how you are referring to Him (just as there are in Arabic).

 

[NoWings]

The Islamic entity of worship has 99 names, one of which is allah.

The God of the Jews & Christians has only 1 name - YAHWEH.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

Actually, it’s YHVH.

Secondly, ‘Allah’ is not one of the 99 names.

 

[Kantaram88]

I believe it is simply the royal pronoun (pluralis majestis, I think) used in english translation. Before John Paul I, all popes referred to themselves by it as well. It is used to convey a sense of dignity. I doubt that Muslims would see this as evidence of the Holy Trinity. However, there are perhaps other such evidences in their book which may point towards the same.

Besides, Muslims also read the Qur’an in Arabic as they believe that the textual integrity is watered down when the book is translated. The original Arabic rendition of the language may be different, for all we know.

Pope is the head of Catholic Church (RC) and when he used the word WE, he represents the Church. Church is not a single person. Even Saudi Kings or British Monarchs use WE when addressing, because they represent the country the government.

A landlord will not use the word We, when telling his workers to do the work. Best he will say is if you dont do the work I will terminate you.

But God? Well He is the landlord of the UNIVERSE. The sole owner.

 

[Kadaveri]

Kantaram - Let’s assume that’s true (I’m not sure it is), how is that even relevant? The Qur’an is in Arabic, not English. The answer is simply that in Arabic referring to oneself in the plural form is a way of expressing ones high position and doesn’t mean that anything about you is actually plural, and since the Qur’an is so strict about pure monotheism I don’t see what point this is supposed to be making. Arabic isn’t the only language which uses plurals in this way, for example in Turkish you can address someone as *sen *(means you singular) or *siz *(means you plural), but using the plural form is just a way of expressing higher respect, it has nothing to do with that person somehow being plural. Are you going to tell Turks that they are ‘wrong’?

 

[Mosacked]

Kantaram - Let’s assume that’s true (I’m not sure it is), how is that even relevant? The Qur’an is in Arabic, not English. The answer is simply that in Arabic referring to oneself in the plural form is a way of expressing ones high position and doesn’t mean that anything about you is actually plural, and since the Qur’an is so strict about pure monotheism I don’t see what point this is supposed to be making. Arabic isn’t the only language which uses plurals in this way, for example in Turkish you can address someone as *sen *(means you singular) or *siz *(means you plural), but using the plural form is just a way of expressing higher respect, it has nothing to do with that person somehow being plural. Are you going to tell Turks that they are ‘wrong’?

Kadaveri, the language of arabic was developed and moulded AROUND and FOR Islam. Prior to the advent of the quran, there was NO official script of arabic literature. It was a mix of jargon/dialect. This is proven by many secular historians.

Therefore is not surprising that I hear you say that the plural form represents some kind of ‘position’. But linguistically speaking for all other languages, plural means plural, it means MORE THAN ONE. Perhaps the developers of arabic (who were themselves muslims) decided either by habit or deliberation that since their entity of worship referred to itself in the plural form and they claim to worship in monotheistic fashion, then the only escape from the paradox is to claim a reason outside of linguistic context.

Over these many centuries, muslims (specificially arabic speakers) have come to accept it through habit and use, as a reference instead, discarding totally the logic behind pluralism in language.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Kantaram - Let’s assume that’s true (I’m not sure it is), how is that even relevant? The Qur’an is in Arabic, not English. The answer is simply that in Arabic referring to oneself in the plural form is a way of expressing ones high position and doesn’t mean that anything about you is actually plural, and since the Qur’an is so strict about pure monotheism I don’t see what point this is supposed to be making. Arabic isn’t the only language which uses plurals in this way, for example in Turkish you can address someone as *sen *(means you singular) or *siz *(means you plural), but using the plural form is just a way of expressing higher respect, it has nothing to do with that person somehow being plural. Are you going to tell Turks that they are ‘wrong’?

I’m surprised to see this thread is continuing. I thought it was handled by you and another poster back on page 2.

The answer is clear that the use of “Us” and “We” by Allah is Not a hint that He is revealing Himself as Trinity.

 

[Kadaveri]

Well since I just pointed out an example of another language I’m familiar with which uses plural forms to not mean more than one, I must conclude that you’re not even reading my posts. I’m not interested in entertaining your ridiculous conspiracy theory that Arabic was invented after the Qur’an to trick non-Muslims.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Well since I just pointed out an example of another language I’m familiar with which uses plural forms to not mean more than one, I must conclude that you’re not even reading my posts. I’m not interested in entertaining your ridiculous conspiracy theory that Arabic was invented after the Qur’an to trick non-Muslims.

What? I never heard of such a theory?

 

[Kadaveri]

What? I never heard of such a theory?

My apologies. My previous post was addressed to Mosacked.

 

[Kantaram88]

Kantaram - Let’s assume that’s true (I’m not sure it is), how is that even relevant? The Qur’an is in Arabic, not English. The answer is simply that in Arabic referring to oneself in the plural form is a way of expressing ones high position and doesn’t mean that anything about you is actually plural, and since the Qur’an is so strict about pure monotheism I don’t see what point this is supposed to be making. Arabic isn’t the only language which uses plurals in this way, for example in Turkish you can address someone as *sen *(means you singular) or *siz *(means you plural), but using the plural form is just a way of expressing higher respect, it has nothing to do with that person somehow being plural. Are you going to tell Turks that they are ‘wrong’?

Hi Kadaveri,

Wonderful explaination, But can you explain this to me. In Quran chapter 2 WE is used as many as times as mentioned just below. Where as I too is used almost 11 times, ie some parts its WE ad other parts its I, so if your explaination is to be excepted, than I should not have been used at all. Does it mean allah when used WE was trying for higher respect and I was lower respect? Would appreciate your explaination.

This is only from one chapter that i was able to trace.

Surat 2: Al Baqarah.
WE
34,35,38,49,50,51,52,53,56,57,58,59,60,63,65,66,73,83, 84, 87, 93, 99, 121, 125, 130, 144, 146, 151, 155, 159, 211

I
30, 33, 40, 41, 47, 122, 124, 150, 152, 160, 186

Have a lovely day.

 

[Wiccan_Catholic]

Did u even read the Qurran? i mean why does their religion concern u we all believe in god dont we?