For My Atheists

[JDaniel]

On a practical level, I don’t care. But in principle, it’s the pseudo-humility that I find irritating. “I’m just trying help you - you poor, sweet, deluded idiots. I just want to give all you maladjusted, emotionally troubled fools a great big hug. Because I’m just humble Christian, on a mission given to me by the Creator of the Universe.”

Frankly, I’m almost tempted to walk back my earlier concession that she means well. It’s simply strains credulity to think that an adult of even average intellectual equipment could think that this was the appropriate tone to take to convince people of her point of view.

ASimon:

This is not a war against non-theists. Hers is the stance ALL Christians should, and must take, if we are to be true to our convictions and to God. It matters not one whit that you find it “irritating.” We pray some day you won’t.

You go girl!

God bless,
jd

 

[ASimon]

I have one response to this: LOL!!!

You make a really bad psychic I’m actually less the mission from God type than I am the “raise the pot” type, if you know what that means.

I’m still siccing God on you and you can’t stop me, nyah-nyah.

ASimon:

This is not a war against non-theists. Hers is the stance ALL Christians should, and must take, if we are to be true to our convictions and to God. It matters not one whit that you find it “irritating.” We pray some day you won’t.

You go girl!

God bless,
jd

See? This is an improvement. Now we’re getting past this saccharine-sweet tripe about how you’re doing it for our own good. At least we’re acknowledging that it has much more to do with your state of being than mine.

If you want to keep not finding any buyers, then by all means, keep “adopting” complete strangers as sheep of your own personal flock. But if you actually want to get anywhere, a change in tactics seems to be in order.

 

[JDaniel]

See? This is an improvement. Now we’re getting past this saccharine-sweet tripe about how you’re doing it for our own good. At least we’re acknowledging that it has much more to do with your state of being than mine.

If you want to keep not finding any buyers, then by all means, keep “adopting” complete strangers as sheep of your own personal flock. But if you actually want to get anywhere, a change in tactics seems to be in order.

ASimon:

You appear to be conflating (I like that word) the activity on an internet forum with face-to-face. No different tactic needs to be taken. It’s not a tactic in the first place; it is an outpouring of what I believe to be honest sentiment.

jd

 

[ASimon]

ASimon:

You appear to be conflating (I like that word) the activity on an internet forum with face-to-face. No different tactic needs to be taken. It’s not a tactic in the first place; it is an outpouring of what I believe to be honest sentiment.

jd

I like the word “conflating” too.

But yes, it is a tactic - whether it’s a reflection of honest sentiment or not. If I wanted you to go see a movie that I honestly liked, there’d be any number of strategies to convince you of the wisdom of that decision. Each possible approach would be a separate tactic, and some tactics would be more effective than others.

I don’t get annoyed when people say they’ll pray for me. And I wouldn’t get annoyed if people wanted me to try praying for myself, but if they really wanted that, they’d do better not to couch it in this language that makes people think they’re the beneficiaries of some unsolicited public service.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I don’t get annoyed when people say they’ll pray for me. And I wouldn’t get annoyed if people wanted me to try praying for myself, but if they really wanted that, they’d do better not to couch it in this language that makes people think they’re the beneficiaries of some unsolicited public service.

AS, what are you on about? What “language?” You imagined a whole lot of stuff that was never there, not in the post, not in my head. JD got it, probably because he feels as I do about this. I mean, really, you want to cast yourself as some sort of victim of the op?

Turning real people into something you are fantasizing… srsly?

Anyway, I said my piece and I’m outta here for now. Those who lurk, give that prayer thing a try if you can imagine, possibly, maybe, there’s something wonderful out there. It’s like having a giant penny jar: doesn’t cost much to toss some in, but might pay for a nice trip when you retire.

:tiphat:

 

[JDaniel]

I like the word “conflating” too.

But yes, it is a tactic - whether it’s a reflection of honest sentiment or not. If I wanted you to go see a movie that I honestly liked, there’d be any number of strategies to convince you of the wisdom of that decision. Each possible approach would be a separate tactic, and some tactics would be more effective than others.

I don’t get annoyed when people say they’ll pray for me. And I wouldn’t get annoyed if people wanted me to try praying for myself, but if they really wanted that, they’d do better not to couch it in this language that makes people think they’re the beneficiaries of some unsolicited public service.

ASimon:

I take your point. I can only answer that because we are boldly enjoined to proselytize, we must do so - despite that fact that Catholics do not do it well, yet. Our Protestant brothers are way ahead of us in the evangelization endeavor. So, forgive us if we seem unpolished and tenuous when we do it. I would ask you to merely respect the lady’s real beneficence. How hard would it be to say, “Thank you…” - and leave it at that? I am not putting you down; I hope you know that. We must all practice this once in a while, should we not?

The Christian’s greatest commandment, second only to loving God with all that we have, is to express respectful charity, i.e. love, for each and every one of our neighbors. Each of us has a different way of expressing it. Some do it with no real faith in God behind it (yet). I don’t think that is the Julia Mae’s problem though.

jd

 

[StarFireKK]

I like the word “conflating” too.

But yes, it is a tactic - whether it’s a reflection of honest sentiment or not. If I wanted you to go see a movie that I honestly liked, there’d be any number of strategies to convince you of the wisdom of that decision. Each possible approach would be a separate tactic, and some tactics would be more effective than others.

I don’t get annoyed when people say they’ll pray for me. And I wouldn’t get annoyed if people wanted me to try praying for myself, but if they really wanted that, they’d do better not to couch it in this language that makes people think they’re the beneficiaries of some unsolicited public service.

It is a cultural difference. Catholics believe in the power of prayer. To offer up our prayers for you is an act of spiritual mercy. We could be praying for ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our priests, our leaders, the deceased. There are always more prayer intentions than there seems to be time in the day to pray. So in our culture, to be offered the prayers of another is indeed a great gift.

I understand you do not see it that way. But the gracious response when you are given the gift of someone’s time and talent is “thank you.” It is not to critique their intentions nor the value of their gift. Or worse yet, to insist they did a poor job presenting or delivering the gift.

Seriously, this is a good example of what is wrong with society. Everyone expects perfect manners and actions from others but seems to hold themselves exempt to those same standards.

 

[ASimon]

It is a cultural difference. Catholics believe in the power of prayer. To offer up our prayers for you is an act of spiritual mercy. We could be praying for ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our priests, our leaders, the deceased. There are always more prayer intentions than there seems to be time in the day to pray. So in our culture, to be offered the prayers of another is indeed a great gift.

I understand you do not see it that way. But the gracious response when you are given the gift of someone’s time and talent is “thank you.” It is not to critique their intentions nor the value of their gift. Or worse yet, to insist they did a poor job presenting or delivering the gift.

Seriously, this is a good example of what is wrong with society. Everyone expects perfect manners and actions from others but seems to hold themselves exempt to those same standards.

The cultural difference is not at issue here. That you think prayer is an effective way to solve problems and I don’t is not the point. As I said, I’m fine if people want to pray for me. It’s the presumptuous attitude that came tethered with it in this case. This talk about how this is directed at “her” atheists that she’s proactively taken under her wing (because atheists evidently can’t make that decision for themselves). I should note that one or two believers in this thread have echoed a similar opinion.

If someone offered you a sweater, and made it very clear just what a nice person they were for doing it and what a lucky person you were for receiving it, you wouldn’t pretend that all this “for your own good” subtext wasn’t actually there. But because it’s religion, and because it’s coming from a person of faith, I’m supposed to observe different rules of propriety.

 

[StarFireKK]

The cultural difference is not at issue here. That you think prayer is an effective way to solve problems and I don’t is not the point. As I said, I’m fine if people want to pray for me. It’s the presumptuous attitude that came tethered with it in this case. This talk about how this is directed at “her” atheists that she’s proactively taken under her wing (because atheists evidently can’t make that decision for themselves). I should note that one or two believers in this thread have echoed a similar opinion.

If someone offered you a sweater, and made it very clear just what a nice person they were for doing it and what a lucky person you were for receiving it, you wouldn’t pretend that all this “for your own good” subtext wasn’t actually there. But because it’s religion, and because it’s coming from a person of faith, I’m supposed to observe different rules of propriety.

If someone offered me a sweater because they believed I would suffer from the cold because I lacked a sweater, I would thank them for their kindness and be happy there are people that worry about others dying of exposure.

If I thought they were being a bit pompous about the gift I would remind myself it is not my place to judge the motives of others. I would also remind myself that when I am given something because others feel I lack something my gut reaction would be to respond with pride. (How dare you think I can’t provide for myself!) At the end of the day someone saw a need and tried to fill it. That is a good thing.

I think you are just upset that a bunch of Catholics implied that being an atheist is something that needs fixing.

 

[ASimon]

I think you are just upset that a bunch of Catholics implied that being an atheist is something that needs fixing.

Nah - I’m used to that.

 

[shadowlily]

I don’t get this conversation.

The OP is a Christian, so it makes sense that she’s praying for atheists. And she’d like us to pray as well. So? I mean, it cant do anyone any harm if someone prays for you to an invisible man in the sky, can it? I’m not offended, and if anyone else is really irked by it, it seems like it would make sense for them just not to visit a Catholic website…

On another note, I do pray, actually. Just as an automatic reflex to when I’m scared or worried about someone/something. I just do. I’m quite convinced that it doesn’t do a thing.

 

[JDaniel]

I don’t get this conversation.

The OP is a Christian, so it makes sense that she’s praying for atheists. And she’d like us to pray as well. So? I mean, it cant do anyone any harm if someone prays for you to an invisible man in the sky, can it? I’m not offended, and if anyone else is really irked by it, it seems like it would make sense for them just not to visit a Catholic website…

On another note, I do pray, actually. Just as an automatic reflex to when I’m scared or worried about someone/something. I just do. I’m quite convinced that it doesn’t do a thing.

Welcome, Shadowlily:

We certainly can’t see infusions of grace, can we? But, I can tell you this, I started out years ago in “indifference,” then moved towards “agnosticism,” then fully to “atheism,” and finally returned home. I can’t put a definitive attribution on what caused it, but I wouldn’t put it past grace.

God bless,
jd