For or Against Live Action??

[anp1215]

I agree on the posters that say that undercover work by it’s nature has to occasionally mislead people. Undercover reporters have been aroun for years exposing things, and no one has questioned them…until they expose something that liberals don’t want exposed.

**I think we need to look at the fact that PP would not be in hot water over these things if they had not actually done them. ** Live Action’s recent pimp/prostitute videos are only the lastest in a long line of videos proving PP violates the law. Also those videos gave sexually abused people who had been victim’s of PP negligence courage to step forward and sue them.

All in all I think they are doing good thing.

:thumbsup:Exactly.

 

[surfinpure]

Murder is inherently evil. There’s a difference between murdering and killing.

That’s my point. There’s also a difference between bearing false witness and lying in a sting operation.

 

[Inquiringperson]

That’s my point. There’s also a difference between bearing false witness and lying in a sting operation.

You still haven’t proved that lying isn’t inherently evil. If lying is inherently evil, lying is always a sin.

 

[surfinpure]

You still haven’t proved that lying isn’t inherently evil. If lying is inherently evil, lying is always a sin.

I don’t understand - you see the difference between murder and killing, but not between bearing false witness and lying? Do you have some source stating that lying itself is always a sin? I’d be very interested to see it.

And did you read the article I posted earlier in the thread? If not, take a look:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=13848

But as long as wolves exist, as long as the world remains fallen, we are also called to be as wise as serpents, even while we strive to be as harmless as doves. We are called to govern a world that is imperfect, and thus, for example, there will be war. The canons of just-war theory exist, in fact, to insure that we wage such war for good and sufficient reasons in the defense of the weak and the innocent.

Now, in the realm of naval warfare, there are recognized tricks—each a ruse de guerre that the international laws of war do not condemn. Sailing under false colors, prior to engaging in battle, for example.

In the high abstraction of Prof. Tollefsen’s noble philosophy, such things would be counted as lies. And rightly so. In the monastery and the convent, too, they would be theologically condemned. War, however, is not fought on those fields. Neither are its combatants the perfect pacifists of Christian self-sacrifice.

Of course, the fight against abortion is also not fought on abstract fields. Its battlegrounds are the political and social worlds, and for those worlds, Lila Rose’s ruse seems to me both fitting and clever.

 

[surfinpure]

You still haven’t proved that lying isn’t inherently evil. If lying is inherently evil, lying is always a sin.

Well, this has been thought provoking. I’ve taken a journey through the Catechism and the Catholic Encyclopedia. Regrettably, I find no discussion of lying as an act of war, only of lying in general. This article in particular was helpful:

newadvent.org/cathen/09469a.htm

St. Augustine held that one must tell the naked truth (or remain silent) under all circumstances and regardless of the consequence, even if lives are on the line, while St. Raymund of Pennafort wrote that some doctors of the Church disagreed with Augustine, among them St. John Chrysostom.

Also, while the bulk of evidence admittedly rests in your favor, I still have to wonder then why *killing *(which does permanent, irreparable harm to another) is permitted as an act of war, but *lying *(especially if the lie is only temporary - as in the case of Live Action) is not?

Thanks for the engaging discussion.

 

[nablaise]

Truth is God
Truth Faith is to have absolute trust in it.
This is actually what the Christian Faith is all about.
Even though you can do anything good:
Raise the dead, heal the blind, denounce hypocrits, you rather die than lie.
Rely always on the Father of truth even when all seem dark. Never put your trust in the Father of lies.

Life is in the truth not in the flesh
when we think in term of good intention and saving lives,
we need to ask ourselves what are we trying to save?
We save souls by drawing/keeping them in the truth
Even though their bodies die, they will rise again
What is the gain, when we lose/cause souls to be lost by our deceitful witness?

We may not have great people of faith capable of holding in the truth and still denounce PP, but there is no good reason to rely on deceit.

we must be careful how the devil bargain with us.
When in front of the PP employee, this employe is our neighbour. We must not bear false witness to them.
we don’t have to tell the whole truth, butt we must not deceive.

Perhaps spying out a pimp, and following him in with a hiden camera…

 

[Inquiringperson]

Well, this has been thought provoking. I’ve taken a journey through the Catechism and the Catholic Encyclopedia. Regrettably, I find no discussion of lying as an act of war, only of lying in general. This article in particular was helpful:

newadvent.org/cathen/09469a.htm

St. Augustine held that one must tell the naked truth (or remain silent) under all circumstances and regardless of the consequence, even if lives are on the line, while St. Raymund of Pennafort wrote that some doctors of the Church disagreed with Augustine, among them St. John Chrysostom.

Also, while the bulk of evidence admittedly rests in your favor, I still have to wonder then why *killing *(which does permanent, irreparable harm to another) is permitted as an act of war, but *lying *(especially if the lie is only temporary - as in the case of Live Action) is not?

Thanks for the engaging discussion.

Perhaps we should send a letter to the USCCB, CDF, or prominent theologians like the Pope to see who’s correct.