For other Baptists.............

[MariaG]

This is why The Catholic Church has both the sacrament of baptism and the sacrament of confirmation!

You would have to quote the word of God book chapter and verse that says one must believe the gospel to be baptized?

I personally have never heard of that one?

And within the Sacrament of Confirmation we as adults or young adults are confirming our baptism and as an adult confirming our belief and trust in God , Jesus and His Church

Respectfully, this is not why we have confirmation. In the Western Church confirmation has become this, but in the East, infants are baptized, confirmed and recieve first communion.

They were separated in the West because in the West it was traditional for the bishop to comfirm, and this was not possible to do so immediately.

 

[MariaG]

If “Ye must be born again”, and we understand what this rebirth is. And if we concur the the CC has the rebirth via baptism as being erroneous, how then were people saved from about 400 AD - 1400 AD (as an example) if people did not have copies of the bible and the only preaching they heard was from the pulpit of a Catholic Church - telling them that they were reborn at their infant baptism…

How did people experience (in our opinion) the real “rebirth”? or better yet, know they had too?

Thanks and I look forward to your replies.

Just a reminder, this thread was not intended for Catholics to discuss our beliefs in contrast to baptist beliefs but for other Baptists to discuss the above issues.

 

[mark_a]

bump

 

[Auriel]

Hummm, you made me rack my brain trying to remember what I was taught in the Baptist Sunday School. I was raised Baptist for a while, but left church altogether as a teen. I asked that same question, and also what about the people who died before Christ? How were they saved? Was it fair that God would throw them in hell just because they were born in the wrong year. They taught us that the ones who were good, and the ones who had faith based on what they had not yet seen, were all held in Abraham’s Bosom. (That’s the part I was trying to remember, LOL). And they told us that it was next to hell, that the ones in hell were probably tortured even more, being already in pain, and seeing the ones having it good across from the divide that seperated them. No offense, but I thought that was mean, a type of psychological torture. I was an annoying child, I was always asking too many questions and was most fond of saying…“Thats not fair!”

I was also told the good souls had to be held in Abraham’s Bosom until the ressurection of Christ. They were not yet pure enough to go to heaven. Because the Blood had not yet been applied.

I am not sure of course if that is correct. I am no Bible scholar. I only read parts of the bible in my early days that I liked. And I could not understand why God would keep souls in hell for all millenia, to hear their tortured cries. Hope that is not a no no, but it is how I feel.

And I was not aware of all the differant beliefs surrounding christening and baptism. The funny thing is, I was Christened in the Catholic Church, I still remember my mother telling me about it, after I found the gown packed away and asked her what this stuff was. I did not know. For years I still had my little christening gown. And I was baptised in the Baptist Chuch. I guess that makes me confused?

 

[faith_alone]

I would have to really worry about my church if it was built on a man instead of the Lord Jesus Christ! Peter is the man who denied Jesus three times in the Bible! Also, Jesus said the church would be built on him, not Peter. I will have to find the verse where it talks of Peter being married as well. Catholics need to read John 3:3 where Jesus plainly states that you have to be “Born Again” to see his kingdom. One last point, Jesus in the only mediator between us and God.

 

[deb1]

I would have to really worry about my church if it was built on a man instead of the Lord Jesus Christ! Peter is the man who denied Jesus three times in the Bible! Also, Jesus said the church would be built on him, not Peter. I will have to find the verse where it talks of Peter being married as well. Catholics need to read John 3:3 where Jesus plainly states that you have to be “Born Again” to see his kingdom. One last point, Jesus in the only mediator between us and God.

I agree! Wow! I would really worry if my church was built on a man and not Jesus. Praise God I am Catholic and attend a church that is based on Jesus!

 

[faith_alone]

For people who ask about other people who have never heard of God’s word please read Titus 2:11. It states that God’s salvation has appeared to all men.

 

[water]

One last point, Jesus in the only mediator between us and God.

Can you show me where in the prayer “Our Father” talks anything about Jesus, yet we pray straight to the Father?

 

[faith_alone]

please look at verses John 14:6 and 1Timothy 2:5 to see where it states Jesus is between us and God.

 

[water]

Yes, I surely know that. Let’s suppose I am a non-Christian who read the verse John 14:6, but he would then be confused by the Our Father prayer in which he prays straight to the Father. Then he might say that he should’ve asked Jesus instead of the Father.

Also, Jesus didn’t say anything against us praying for intercession of the Saints who would pray to Jesus/God.

 

[faith_alone]

When you pray to the Father you are praying to both Jesus and God because John 10:30 shows where Jesus states that he and the Father are one.

 

[water]

When you pray to the Father you are praying to both Jesus and God because John 10:30 shows where Jesus states that he and the Father are one.

That is true too about the Trinity. Therefore, are you implying that you pray to straight to the Father?

If that is true, what would your prayer be different than the prayers of the Saints?

Would you say that because you are alive, and they are dead?

 

[faith_alone]

You are not to pray to the saints or to Mary. Jesus never put them on the same level or above him. Jesus referred to Mary as “woman” in the Bible to show that she was not above anyone else. We are to pray to the one true God only.

 

[water]

You are not to pray to the saints or to Mary. Jesus never put them on the same level or above him. Jesus referred to Mary as “woman” in the Bible to show that she was not above anyone else. We are to pray to the one true God only.

You are right again! we never put anyone on the same level of God, and we don’t pray to them as to God, we pray for their intercession as if you sometime ask your loved one to pray for you. On one note, in the Bible says “all generation will call me blessed”.

 

[faith_alone]

The saints and Mary are in Heaven so how can they do any good for us? To ask them for any help is trying to place them in the same boat as God.

 

[deb1]

**If “Ye must be born again”, and we understand what this rebirth is. And if we concur the the CC has the rebirth via baptism as being erroneous, how then were people saved from about 400 AD - 1400 AD (as an example) if people did not have copies of the bible and the only preaching they heard was from the pulpit of a Catholic Church - telling them that they were reborn at their infant baptism…

How did people experience (in our opinion) the real “rebirth”? or better yet, know they had too?

Thanks and I look forward to your replies.**

This was the original post. We need to stick to the subject.

Faith alone you have asked interesting questions but they need their own threads. If you are new to this forum then I can start some threads for your questions or you could do so yourself. Just keep one subject to thread.

 

[jimmy]

First, the one baptism that saves is the baptism with the Holy Ghost. The Word of God states that one must believe the gospel to be baptized by the Holy Ghost. It is impossible for a baby to be believe. THEREFORE infants cannot be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Infant baptism is erroneous. You can sprinkle their foreheads all day long but they will not be baptized with the Holy Spirit until they make a conscious decision to follow Jesus.

And that means that when Jesus prayed over the children in Matthew 19 in meant nothing because they could not make a conscious decision.

 

[mark_a]

bump

 

[hermitcrab]

Dear Mark… I wear not a Baptist label, so you will "bump"once more… Yet I fully know what you are saying. I was Christened as a tiny baby, and was blessed to fall in love with Jesus as a small child.
And to follow His ways all the years.

Yet it was not until I was in my 50s that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit came to me, unexpectedly, in great peace, a pure white dove on wide wings.

That day changed my life forever.

I am no theologian; yet I know that we always choose, to be faithful without any soul-shaking experience… When folk speak of rebirth like this, I know then that this is of God’s choosing, in timing etc, and not of ours.

He awed and humbled me that day and does still.

Yes, we have to make a commitment as adults, yet with me I am sure that that seed of grace was sown at the water baptism; all the more so because it was simply a custom and not in an earthly family that loved or knew Jesus.

Maybe that it set my small life on a course in the Church of my childhood that made it easy to stay there?

I don’t know… how can any of us truly know the truths of these great mysteries?

All ways given to Jesus are His.

 

[mark_a]

Dear Mark… I wear not a Baptist label, so you will "bump"once more… Yet I fully know what you are saying. I was Christened as a tiny baby, and was blessed to fall in love with Jesus as a small child.
And to follow His ways all the years.

Yet it was not until I was in my 50s that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit came to me, unexpectedly, in great peace, a pure white dove on wide wings.

That day changed my life forever.

I am no theologian; yet I know that we always choose, to be faithful without any soul-shaking experience… When folk speak of rebirth like this, I know then that this is of God’s choosing, in timing etc, and not of ours.

He awed and humbled me that day and does still.

Yes, we have to make a commitment as adults, yet with me I am sure that that seed of grace was sown at the water baptism; all the more so because it was simply a custom and not in an earthly family that loved or knew Jesus.

Maybe that it set my small life on a course in the Church of my childhood that made it easy to stay there?

I don’t know… how can any of us truly know the truths of these great mysteries?

All ways given to Jesus are His.

Nice post.

I have never had a “moment” in time where I “knew” God had entered my life in a more profound way. I cannot hold his feet to the fire so-to-speak. If it happens, it happens at a time and place of God’s choosing, not mine.

I wear not a Baptist label, so you will "bump"once more.

bump!!!