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c659smith
Guest
Which came first Islam or Catholics?
If Catholics then who is Mohammed to say what happened 500 plus years before his time.
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If Catholics then who is Mohammed to say what happened 500 plus years before his time.
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LaMar
Guest
There’re a whole lotta holes in that folktale.
God killed himself to appease himself for the mistake that he created. He’s not much of a God! (paraphrasing/plagiarizing from A the atheist here – I wish I was witty enough to take credit.)
The Muslims are too nice to come right out with it, so I’ll just tell you the unvarnished truth. There are four different stories in the New Testament which don’t agree on many of the fundamentals. None of them make any sense and all 4 versions require a guy to turn large portions of his brain off in order to even consider.
The Muslims don’t have that problem. They have One God Of Abraham. No co-gods, demigods, sons of god, mothers of god, saints, icons, weeping statues or any other nonsense. Just God. That’s as it should be.
Christians can’t even explain their 3 in 1 concept without becoming insulting, which suggests the average Christian does not understand (or believe in) his own religion. If this nonsense made sense, it wouldn’t take you five pages of insults with every simple request for clarification.
I won’t pretend to know many Muslims outside this internet forum, but the ones here seem almost universally pleasant, patient, and they generally represent themselves with dignity and good humor. Catholics (and sadly, Mormons also) can’t say as much, here or elsewhere.
While we’re pointing out the good parts of Islam, I can’t help but tip my hat to the synchronized nature of the service, where everybody kneels in unison. I think they do a great job at that. Having been an old hand at various Mormon wards and Episcopal churches, with half-sleeping worshippers stumbling around between standing for songs and kneeling to pray, I have never seen anything quite so cool. I think we could take some lessons from our brothers in the east.
Just some random thoughts this evening.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Thank you for your opinion. Although you did side-step that pressing issue of mine…
“For People Who Think”, how do suppose they come to the conclusion of the ancient historical fact - the cucifixion of Jesus - is just a hoax or an illusion?
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LaMar
Guest
Personally, I think it’s just a story.
No God. No Jesus. No historical evidence.
That aside: The Muslims tell the story much better than the Christians do.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
and degrees in Islamic jurisprudence from Brandeis.
Since when does a Jewish university give degrees in Mahometan studies?
Since when does a Jewish university give degrees in Mahometan studies?
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LaMar
Guest
brandeis.edu/programs/interdepartmental/Islamic/
I’m sure you can write and ask when they started their program.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
His profile says he is LDS which seems suspect by denying Chrsit as he is. Maybe he likes the 4 wives of Islam bit and maybe will join those folks down in Texas and add an F before his stated faith. If he is Mormon then what do you expect from a follower of Smith whose tale of golden plates, and seeing stones as as factual as Mohammed splitting the moon? Mormons have no support for their ‘historical’ claims like Muslims have no suppport for the goodness of Mohammed. I can see why Mormons would argue the legitimacy of Islam, but Islam will not return the favor to him.
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LaMar
Guest
So, this is your best attempt to explain the trinity, eh? LOL! LOL! LOL!
Thanks for proving my earlier point, so quickly and so well. When faced with even a modest examination of your own beliefs, you fail to even attempt an explanation, and go straight to spewing filth instead. Typical Christian behavior.
Jesus is so proud! 
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Why would anyone want to explain the Trinity on a thread about Islam?
I guess you’re trying to divert attention away from that strange idea that Jesus wasn’t really crucified. Where’s the credibility “For People Who Think”?
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Booklover
Guest
You are completely ridiculous! Verisimilitude has said nothing objectionable, and your reply is simply outrageous.So, this is your best attempt to explain the trinity, eh? LOL! LOL! LOL!
Thanks for proving my earlier point, so quickly and so well. When faced with even a modest examination of your own beliefs, you fail to even attempt an explanation, and go straight to spewing filth instead. Typical Christian behavior.
You are biased towards Islam and it’s shown for sometime. Never once have you expressed any outrage at the violence perpetrated by Muslims as shown in the movie Fitna but continue defending the undefensible. You’ve insulted our faith countless times. You’ve declared that the Catholic Church would cease to exist in 200 years and have called our Pope a Nazi and a collaborator to Nazism and now resort to this utter nonsense. What little credibility you may have had is gone!
Vickie
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dolphinlove
Guest
He had credibility???You are completely ridiculous! Verisimilitude has said nothing objectionable, and your reply is simply outrageous.
You are biased towards Islam and it’s shown for sometime. Never once have you expressed any outrage at the violence perpetrated by Muslims as shown in the movie Fitna but continue defending the undefensible. You’ve insulted our faith countless times. You’ve declared that the Catholic Church would cease to exist in 200 years and have called our Pope a Nazi and a collaborator to Nazism and now resort to this utter nonsense. What little credibility you may have had is gone!
Vickie
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Verisimilitude
Guest
You beat me to it.He had credibility???
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Booklover
Guest
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Booklover
Guest
Hi Ellen! Glad you’re back. You’ll have to give us an account of your travels!He had credibility???
Vickie :hug1:
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Angelos
Guest
A presumption based on prejudice and wrong premises naturally leads you to faulty inferences. Besides, anyone could claim something similar for the god of the Koran: a god that first creates evil, then negotiates with Satan, finally sends many messengers to save people from being misled by Satan!
The passion narratives in the Gospels are harmonious with one another and perfectly agree on all of the fundemantals. The Muslims only deny those four Gospels to replace it with a book that was written 600 years after Jesus and lacks sufficient data concerning Jesus’ passion. This leaves Muslims in constant suspense and condemns them to conjecture upon conjecture. It is rather funny that Muslim scholars can never concur on the standard interpretation of the Koran verse denying Jesus’ crucifixion.
You are both contradicting and denying the 6 principles of the Islamic creed!. Muslims are obliged to believe in the angels of God and in the prophets of God too. They are also obliged to venerate the biggest idol of the world inherited by Mohammad from pagan Arabs: The Kaaba! A Muslim believing in God alone and denying Mohammad is not considered a Muslim and believer according to the Koran. Allah is nothing without his Mohammad! So please read your Scripture before making fallacious comments.
Logical fallacy: If some Christians do not get the mystery of the Trinity and fail to explain it properly, this will not make their belief an invention. Further, I personally know lots of Muslims who only believe, but never study their religion or even read their Scripture in a language they understand!
Another logical fallacy! Now you are trying to derive a reasonable association between a person’s characteristics and the validity of that person’s creed.
External signs of unity are more significant for you than the notion of individual worship in a community??? Maybe you should ask those Muslims to wear the same uniform before going to Mosque so as to strengthen the symbolism of their unity.
More, I was a Muslim before, one who was terribly bothered by the stench coming from the wet socks of the people around me!
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Booklover
Guest
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LaMar
Guest
Really? Where did I go wrong?
Why does the God of Abraham need to impregnate some poor girl, birth himself through her, kill himself and resurrect himself?
Most of you pat yourselves on the back with the arrogant idea that you have “the one true path of salvation”. By your reckoning, the best God can do is "save"10-15 per cent of his own children.
And of those saved, are they the best portion of humanity? Would I ever even consider of spending eternity with people of the sort as “booklover”, “Versimilitude” and “ibkc”? [LaMar shakes head no]
For the rest, God has created a devil spook, and a place called Hell, so that he can burn and fry the rest of humanity… Nice folks like “Sister Amy” and Richard Dawkins are supposedly going to find that their destination, who I’d much rather end up with.
Did God create the billions of people with the idea that he was going to torture most of them? If so, he’s a sadist and he’s nobody I want to give any respect to on principle. If he didn’t know how things were going to turn out, then he’s not very bright and can’t be trusted anyway.
And what about this devil? Why not just kill the devil and be done with the whole business? In the book of Job you see God meeting with the devil in various board-of-directors type gatherings, conspiring to torture the one character who seems to be a decent fellow. God killed nearly everyone on earth in the mythical flood (that never happened). Why not just kill the devil and stop all the trouble he causes?
None of this Christianity stuff makes any sense at all. You guys know this, which is why you rely on insults and getting personal rather than explaining it simply (as the Muslims do). The Muslims and Jews have at least thought their folktales through. Christianity is such a laughably transparent fraud in contrast that no intelligent person who wasn’t born into it could possibly take it seriously. I thank God (if he exists, which I doubt) that I was not born into a Christian family.
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hamba2han
Guest
There are just too many to list but the following is an excerpt from a webpage describing just a few examples of the miracles that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) performed with the help and permission of Allah:
Examples of the Prophet’s miracles related to him effectively increasing food
As related by Anas ibn Malik, Abu Talha, on seeing God’s Messenger hungry, invited him to a meal. The Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, came with a crowd of people. Abu Talha had only one loaf of rye bread at home. Umm Sulaym, Abu Talha’s wife, spread some butter on it. The Messenger prayed for abundance, and since there was not enough space for all the people, they ate of the bread ten by ten and left satisfied. They were about seventy to eighty people.
As another example, ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Abi Bakr relates that they, one hundred and thirty Companions, were in the company of God’s Messenger during an expedition. The Messenger asked them whether they had something to eat. One of them had about one or two sacks of flour . Dough was prepared to make bread and a sheep was bought from a polytheist who happened to pass by with his flock. They roasted the liver of the sheep, which the Messenger divided among those present, giving each a piece of it, and put aside the share of those who were not present there then. They cooked the meat in two bowls and everyone ate of it. After they finished eating all satisfied, the meat was still as if no one had eaten of it at all.
There are many other examples of this kind of miracle. They were all transmitted through various—sometimes as many as sixteen—channels. Most of them took place in the presence of large assemblies and were narrated by many persons of truth and good repute.
Examples of the Prophet’s miracles concerning water
The Companions were left without water in a place called Zarwa. They were going to do wudu’ (ritual ablution) but they could not find enough water. God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, ordered them to bring a bowl of water. He dipped his hands into the bowl and water began to run from his fingers like a fountain. Anas ibn Malik says that on that day they were three hundred people.
Anas relates this incident on behalf of three hundred persons. Is it at all conceivable that those three hundred people would not have confirmed him, if they thought him to be truthful, or otherwise contradicted him?
As a second example, during the campaign of Hudaybiya, the Companions complained to God’s Messenger about the lack of water. The Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, took an arrow out of his arrowbag and ordered them to put it in the well of Samad. When they did that, the water of the well began to gush. During the campaign, all of the Companions drank from it and did wudu’ with it.
There are many examples of the Prophet’s miracles concerning water. They were related by numerous Companions and transmitted through various reliable channels.
Examples of the miracles of the healing of ill and wounded people
Authentic books of Tradition, including primarily Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih al-Muslim, report:
During the Battle of Khaybar, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, asked where ‘Ali was. ‘He is suffering from sore eyes’, the Companions answered. He sent for him. ‘Ali came and the Messenger applied his healing saliva to his eyes. At the same moment the pain ceased and ‘Ali’s eyes became better than before.
‘Uthman ibn Hunayf relates:
A blind man came to God’s Messenger and requested him to pray to God to recover his eyes. The Messenger said: “If you desire, I’ll not pray—being blind may be better for your afterlife—or I’ll pray.” The man chose to be relieved of blindness and the Messenger told him: “Go and do an ablution. Then pray two rak‘as and say: ‘O God! Surely my appeal is to You and I turn toward You through the Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy: O Muhammad, surely I turn toward God through you, that He uncover my sight. O God, make him my intercessor.’” The man did what the Messenger told him and his sight was restored.
There are many more examples concerning this kind of miracle God’s Messenger worked, all of which are recorded in books of Tradition.
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Booklover
Guest
Will you explain why Muhammad never acknowledged any of these miracles? When asked by skeptics to perform one, he said that he was only a “warner” and that his only miracle was the Quran!
Vickie
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hamba2han
Guest
Kindly quote the hadith in which the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said this.
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