For Protestants: Who are your "saints?"

[davy39]

Huguenot:

But the struggle with sin also continues for us Protestants, although we are not accustomed to using “set prayers” ; we use our own words to confess our sins to the Lord and ask Him to forgive us, or sometimes, if it corresponds to what we want to say, we can use a psalm, or some verses of a psalm, or a very simple and short prayer used by a sinner in the New Testament, I don’t know exactly how it is translated in English, something like "Lord have mercy in me a sinner ! )

Is the Lords Prayer one of the “set prayers” that Protestants never use, and if so, why not.?

 

[MariaG]

UBERROGO:

Where can I find this in a Catholic Catechism?

I was looking but couldn’t find it yesterday, and don’t have time today.

Here is a online one to try to look for yourself. I’ll try to look later just because I am irritated that I can’t find it this time. Truly, God’s hand was leading me last time!

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Under the Communion of Saints:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p5.htm

 

[Kitty_Chan]

if it says as you say Maria then how come no one knows this, the other preception is what people think.

 

[Huguenot]

davy39:

Is the Lords Prayer one of the “set prayers” that Protestants never use, and if so, why not.?

We use it, it is the only prayer “given” by Jesus ; but we don’t use it everytime we meet, it is also, for us, an example of how we must pray : first think about God and glorify Him, then ask what you need ( inclusive forgiveness of sins, but you can also ask help in your daily problems, inclusive more “material” ones ; you can also examine yourself to see if you really “forgive” those who have hurt you ; and then you glorify God again at the end of the prayer : "and thine be … " --sorry I don’t know it by heart in English …
It doesn’t necessarily mean you must use the same words all the time although sometimes I like using the precise words used by Jesus …

 

[MariaG]

Kitty Chan:

if it says as you say Maria then how come no one knows this, the other preception is what people think.

The moderator posted just before yours.

946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.

The communion of saints. The Church is the assembly of all the saints. With a big difference between Catholic and Non-Catholic is that we do not believe that death is a barrier to that communion of saints, whether those saints are living on this earth or in heaven with Christ. Christ won. Death is not a barrier to the body of Christ

 

[MariaG]

Rachel Malloy:

Under the Communion of Saints:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p5.htm

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I guess I was supposed to give my little story instead of just posting the information because truly, I was becoming so completely frustrated that I could not find what I had found so easily before.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Jesus

 

[Kitty_Chan]

The moderator posted just before yours.

946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.

The communion of saints. The Church is the assembly of all the saints. With a big difference between Catholic and Non-Catholic is that we do not believe that death is a barrier to that communion of saints, whether those saints are living on this earth or in heaven with Christ. Christ won. Death is not a barrier to the body of Christ

Now Im just wondering here but Im thinking that perhaps I can think of my mother in Heaven, because when you die you are to be in His Pressence. (Now if that means asleep in Jesus then that may be, Im not sure about that saying)

But Im not going to ask her to pray for me, I imagine she may be praying for me and the rest of the world, but I still direct my prayers to Christ as she would be doing as well. No man comes to the Father except through Christ.

My guess is this is why protestants dont pray to the dead.?? what say. . .

 

[Doreen]

Kitty Chan:

Now Im just wondering here but Im thinking that perhaps I can think of my mother in Heaven, because when you die you are to be in His Pressence. (Now if that means asleep in Jesus then that may be, Im not sure about that saying)

But Im not going to ask her to pray for me, I imagine she may be praying for me and the rest of the world, but I still direct my prayers to Christ as she would be doing as well. No man comes to the Father except through Christ.

My guess is this is why protestants dont pray to the dead.?? what say. . .

Kitty, I explained the way protestants see this in some other post. Not sure where.

Consider what Christ says to the criminal that was hanging next to Him on the cross, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43) Now this guy turned his heart over to the Lord just before taking his last breathe.

1 Thes. 4:13-14 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (died), lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Keep reading and it says that these who are asleep will rise on the day of Judgement at the sound of the trumpet.

vs. 16 “the dead in Christ shall rise first”
(at the sound of the trumpet, that is)
and in verse 17:
…And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

What a wonderful thought that is! See, our loved ones will not get there but moments before we who remain are called up. Isn’t that a comforting thought? Like when you sleep…to those who died “in Christ” no time will have passed between their departure from this life to the day of judgement.

And re: whether they’re hearing our prayers…protestants understand that since they’re asleep…they’re not listening to or delivering anyone’s prayers.

Now remember folks…she was asking what a protestant would say…I’m just answering her question.
D.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

ok Doreen (btw I guess Im protestant although I dont like the term)

Isnt there another part that says when you die you are immediately with Christ?. Thats why I was wondering if perhaps that meant asleep and like you said it will feel like the next minute that would explain to be immediately. So maybe both ideas work?? or am I stretching?

The other part with sleeping would make sense regarding hearing prayers. However if they were not sleeping I still think its goes through Christ on either end of Heaven.

I like what 1 Thes. 4:13-14 says its pretty cool, actually backs up another verse, which was a blessing for me when my mother died. (not sure its for public display you can pm me)

 

[MariaG]

Kitty Chan:

But Im not going to ask her to pray for me, I imagine she may be praying for me and the rest of the world, but I still direct my prayers to Christ as she would be doing as well. No man comes to the Father except through Christ.

My guess is this is why protestants dont pray to the dead.?? what say. . .

First, pray to the dead. Catholics don’t “pray to the dead” either.
Those who have died in Christ, are not dead, but alive in Him. And we don’t “pray” in the way Protestants use the word. ** For you, the only use of the word pray is in conjuction with God**.

pray

1. 
   *]To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship.
   *]To make a fervent request or entreaty.
   
   As you can see, there is more than one definition of pray. When “praying” to the angels and saints, it is to make a fervent request. As a revert to the Catholic Church, I only say, “Ask them to pray for you” since most Protestants seem to be unwilling to even admit that there is more than one definition to the word pray, and that the Catholic Church has used those two definitions, without confusing the two for two thousand years.
   
   Did you ask your mother to pray for you when she was alive?
   
   Do you believe she is still part of the body of Christ since she has died?
   
   Do you believe she is dead in Christ or alive in Him?
   
   If she were still alive, would you still ask her to pray for you?
   
   So why do you think that just because she has died (but alive in Christ ) that instead of asking her to pray for you, suddenly you can’t tell the difference between asking your mother to pray for you and you would be praying to her as you would God? (Or that Catholic Christians are unable to make this distinction?)
   
   Because you say I only direct my prayers to Christ. In the manner you mean, so do I and all Catholic Christians.
   
   Why do you let death, death that Christ overcame, separate you from the body of Christ?
   
   Scripture tells us in Hebrews about the cloud of witnesses who are presenting our prayers to God. Who do you think that cloud is? What about the other Scripture? Here is Hebrews with commentary from Scripture Catholic, there is more scripture there if you wish to look for yourself.
   Heb. 12:1 - we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses, our family in heaven. We are not separated. The “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) refers to a great amphitheatre with the arena for the runners (us on earth), and many tiers of seats occupied by the saints (in heaven) rising up like a cloud. The “martures” are not mere spectators (“theatai”), but testifiers (witnesses) who testify from their own experience to God’s promises and cheer us on in our race to heaven. They are no less than our family in heaven.
   
   God Bless,
   Maria