For Supporters of Capital Punishment

[ddarko]

That you feel this way is undoubtedly because we have provided citations from 2000 years of Church teaching on this subject that appears to disagree with 2267. At least you recognize that there is a disparity between that section and everything else the Church has taught on the subject. What are we to do when the Church appears to contradict herself; when her position appears to have changed?

It is certainly true that the Church can change her teaching on some topics; that’s why she makes a distinction between infallible and fallible teachings, but I don’t believe this is such a situation. There appear to me to be two choices: either discard pretty much everything the Church has taught about punishment, retribution, justice, and expiation in favor of 2267 or understand 2267 as an expression of JPII’s prudential opinion about using the death penalty in current society.

Given that Cardinals Ratzinger and the USCCB seem to feel that it was his prudential opinion I think I am in company in agreeing with them.

Ender

Sorry to go back on my word of bowing out of this conversation but it is only for this one final post.

These links say all I am want to say, NOTE: these refer to the position of the HOLY SEE and NOT JP II so don’t try to play the just prudential or just the opinion card to yourself.

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html

vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_02111999_death-penalty_en.html

And this is what the The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace at the Vatican had to say

#405. The Church sees as a sign of hope “a growing public opposition to the death penalty, even when such a penalty is seen as a kind of ‘legitimate defense’ on the part of society. Modern society in fact has the means of effectively suppressing crime by rendering criminals harmless without definitively denying them the chance to reform.” 833 Whereas, presuming the full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the guilty party, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude the death penalty “when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.” 834 Bloodless methods of deterrence and punishment are preferred as “they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.” 835 The growing number of countries adopting provisions to abolish the death penalty or suspend its application is also proof of the fact that cases in which it is absolutely necessary to execute the offender “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”836 The growing aversion of public opinion towards the death penalty and the various provisions aimed at abolishing it or suspending its application constitute visible manifestations of a heightened moral awareness.

This is what the USCCB has to say

usccb.org/deathpenalty/advocate.shtml

If you still believe that you are on the side of the Church, I really don’t know what is wrong with you two.

And btw, there is NO contradiction in the church just as there was no contradiction in Jesus condemning the LAW. Christianity is a religion of LOVE. Everything is centred around having a proper relationship with God and Man which is true love.

You and southpaw seem to know something much greater than this about Christianity and claim contradictions in the Church (and try to resolve them using 'it was just a prudential opinion) I for one am too unintelligent to understand you.

Sorry for going back on my word, but this is certainly my final post as I can add nothing more than what the Church can say.

You will be in my prayers.

God Bless

 

[Ender]

These links say all I am want to say, NOTE: these refer to the position of the HOLY SEE and NOT JP II so don’t try to play the just prudential or just the opinion card to yourself.

It is not merely my opinion that I am offering; I am quoting Church authorities. We’ve all seen the quote from Cardinal Ratzinger regarding the propriety of Catholics holding opposing views on capital punishment. One can only wonder how it could ever be appropriate to dissent from Church doctrine, but since dissent on this topic is clearly allowed it seems it can only be because it is not doctrine. This conclusion is also implied by the USCCB in their comment that:

*“The death penalty arouses deep passions and strong convictions. People of goodwill disagree. In these reflections, we offer neither judgment nor condemnation…” *

Again, how could the bishops not offer judgment about Catholic doctrine? Finally, the statements of Cardinal Dulles simply leave no doubt about his understanding of the issue:

The Pope and the bishops, using their prudential judgment, have concluded that in contemporary society, at least in countries like our own, the death penalty ought not to be invoked, because, on balance, it does more harm than good.

And btw, there is NO contradiction in the church just as there was no contradiction in Jesus condemning the LAW. Christianity is a religion of LOVE. Everything is centred around having a proper relationship with God and Man which is true love.

Well, yes, but that leaves things rather vague … which is why the Church speaks more plainly on specific topics, as she has done on the concepts of punishment and justice, and what she has said does not accord with 2267.

Ender