For the Guys (Mostly): "Side Effects of NFP"

[Em_in_FL]

THERE’S A T-SHIRT IN THERE:

BE CHASTE LEST YOU MUST MAKE HASTE!!

 

[PennitentMan]

Ditto - I will also ask for prayers from all; the more, the better. I’m tired of the bumpy ride.

Yeah me too…I want to look forward to ph III, I want to forget about the rejection…I want to share myself with my wife.

PM

 

[searching06]

PM, how have you tried to communicate any of this, especially what this thread is about, with your wife? Or have you yet? I am terrified of bringing it up, especially as it opens the door to the struggles I’m dealing with…

 

[PennitentMan]

PM, how have you tried to communicate any of this, especially what this thread is about, with your wife? Or have you yet? I am terrified of bringing it up, especially as it opens the door to the struggles I’m dealing with…

Honestly, only to some degree.

• We have spoken about how I do not like the fact that we get to be intimate only once a month, I told her about my drive and that I’m afraid that the frequency may lead to me falling into mortal sin by masturbating.
  She seemed fine with this discussion, and especially when I told her that the present course may lead me to Mortal Sin, she was quite susceptable to that.
• We have spoken about the “spontenaeouty” in the bedroom, but she was very defensive about that bit, and denied an issue existed. Also blamed motherhood and tiredness for it, even though I can see it also comes from being overly scared to sin. But as I said, it’s such a tender topic that after a few attempts she was too defensive and no headway was made.
• We have spoken about the fact that it is always a bit akward in the beginning…you have waited so long, and the anticipation is so great, but getting to the point of being intimate is a problem. Sometimes that is overcome by taking a “no-pressure” bath together, just chatting and shooting the breeze, that helps to calm the tensions…
  Specifically about it leading to a “why bother” attitude, I have not spoken about that. I don’t want to give her any idea that it exists, since that may put more tension on an already tense situation.

I try to think over the topics I want to discuss before the time, keeping her mindsets and areas of vulnerability in mind when I phrase my points.
Treating it this way makes it very slow going, but I believe it’s better that way.

I am also terrified about certain topics, but I found that if you approch them right, they are okay.
That may mean that you only talk about a small part of the problem and if it leads to uncovering bigger issues, lead the conversation subtly away again, if that is possible.
Or that may mean that you phrase it in such a way to make her understand the gravity of the situation without making her feel back, like me relating it to my fear of me falling into Mortal Sin. I didn’t mention anything about her or that I’m unhappy, just that my drive is higher than hers and the infrequency of it makes me fear for that.

Try to phrase it tactfully.

I hope that helped…good luck Brother!

PM

 

[searching06]

Honestly, only to some degree.

• We have spoken about how I do not like the fact that we get to be intimate only once a month, I told her about my drive and that I’m afraid that the frequency may lead to me falling into mortal sin by masturbating.
  She seemed fine with this discussion, and especially when I told her that the present course may lead me to Mortal Sin, she was quite susceptable to that.
• We have spoken about the “spontenaeouty” in the bedroom, but she was very defensive about that bit, and denied an issue existed. Also blamed motherhood and tiredness for it, even though I can see it also comes from being overly scared to sin. But as I said, it’s such a tender topic that after a few attempts she was too defensive and no headway was made.
• We have spoken about the fact that it is always a bit akward in the beginning…you have waited so long, and the anticipation is so great, but getting to the point of being intimate is a problem. Sometimes that is overcome by taking a “no-pressure” bath together, just chatting and shooting the breeze, that helps to calm the tensions…
  Specifically about it leading to a “why bother” attitude, I have not spoken about that. I don’t want to give her any idea that it exists, since that may put more tension on an already tense situation.

I try to think over the topics I want to discuss before the time, keeping her mindsets and areas of vulnerability in mind when I phrase my points.
Treating it this way makes it very slow going, but I believe it’s better that way.

I am also terrified about certain topics, but I found that if you approch them right, they are okay.
That may mean that you only talk about a small part of the problem and if it leads to uncovering bigger issues, lead the conversation subtly away again, if that is possible.
Or that may mean that you phrase it in such a way to make her understand the gravity of the situation without making her feel back, like me relating it to my fear of me falling into Mortal Sin. I didn’t mention anything about her or that I’m unhappy, just that my drive is higher than hers and the infrequency of it makes me fear for that.

Try to phrase it tactfully.

I hope that helped…good luck Brother!

PM

Thanks, and you, too. I think I have a really long way to go in the communication department. Use to not be that way. Of all of the subjects we need to discuss, it just had to be this one, didn’t it? We can cover just about anything else; though over time, it has grown difficult to share my feelings on anything anyway because since we’ve disagreed on so much for so long, I gradually took on the “what’s the use” and “just suck it up” mentality. I sincerely pray that God will let any conversation be a gentle and understanding one.

 

[PennitentMan]

Thanks, and you, too. I think I have a really long way to go in the communication department. Use to not be that way. Of all of the subjects we need to discuss, it just had to be this one, didn’t it? We can cover just about anything else; though over time, it has grown difficult to share my feelings on anything anyway because since we’ve disagreed on so much for so long, I gradually took on the “what’s the use” and “just suck it up” mentality. I sincerely pray that God will let any conversation be a gentle and understanding one.

Yeah, it really is something that is tough, especially since there is always that danger of you being labelled as too physical or whatever.

That is whe I take it very slow.

To start, I may mention something in passing but not really even engage in conversation on the topic untill the next evening…

Just try to anticipate her responses and deal with it lovingly and only a little info at a time, that works for me.
not that i’m an expert and totally not where Iwant to be yet, but it is a slow process…

I have a question that I’m sure was covered somewhere, but I have no idea.

If we choose to abstain during the fertile times, how far can we go being physical before it’s not right anymore?

As I understand it, we can do anything we want, but I (the man) should not orgasm, since that would be outside the wife, by definition in this scenario…is that right?

 

[kage_ar]

It is sad that the words “afraid” and “terrified” come up when relating to conversations with your wife. Find a Catholic marriage councilor, that may be the answer to many of your issues.

 

[kage_ar]

Interrupted before I could finish my above post.

Meditate on the scripture where we are told “There is no fear in love”.

 

[vluvski]

As I understand it, we can do anything we want, but I (the man) should not orgasm, since that would be outside the wife, by definition in this scenario…is that right?

The wife may not orgasm either. The latest publication distributed by CCL that purports to be in sync with the Church specifies that genital contact is, in fact, permissible (surprised me very much), but only to a certain extent. Prudence dictates that oral stimulation is inappropriate, as would be excessive stroking or pumping. I think a good rule of thumb is whether both husband and wife would call it exhilarating or exasperating. I’m sure for some couples, any genital stimulation would be too much. The goal is to stop before it causes sexual frustration or resentment of your need to abstain.

You know, we women here are always talking about how we like to get a back massage during fertile times. That can go the other way, too. Don’t be too embarrassed to ask your wife for a nice neck and back rub. Seems like it would do wonders for the stress and anxiety of waiting.

 

[journey137]

Ok, I’m not a guy and I’m not married yet, but I see you guys having communication issues with your wives articulating beautifully in your posts. Why can’t you just go through your posts, cut, and paste with appropriate editing and give your wife a note? If you’re not willing to say something I don’t understand how you plan on dealing with the issue. Don’t take this the wrong way and I don’t mean to be rude by saying this so if you take it that way, I’m sorry, but she can’t read your mind and if you don’t tell her there’s a problem and suggest a way to fix the problem, aren’t you just making the situation worse?

 

[Nordar]

Pennnitentman and Searching my prayers are with both you and your wifes.

 

[Trudy_Whittaker]

Hi,

When I have a difficult topic to discuss, this is how I prepare.

1st- I pray to the Holy Spirit, that He prepare both our hearts.

2nd- I ask the Holy Spirit to give me the right words to say, so that I communicate clearly, and in a loving manner.

3rd- I ask for the Holy Spirits guidance in when to speak.

Then I wait for the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

I’ll also ask for the help of my guardian angel, and the other person’s guardian angel.

When I have followed these steps, the conversations have been very helpful. The Holy Spirit knows all about the problem, the best solutions, all our difficulties, our hearts, all that either of us has to change, and most importantly of all, God’s will in the matter.

I see two separate questions to discuss with your wife.

1. How do we, as a married couple, live abstinence? That is, how do we maintain our marital intimacy when we need to avoid conception? One part of the answer is likely prayer. The other will be in figuring out how to spend time together in ways that strengthen your marriage.

On a personal note, I have to confess that we had not had a chaste courtship, so the first thing we had to learn after learning the mechanics of NFP was how to express our affection for each other and our aching physical longing for each other in a chaste way. We really didn’t know how to live “courtship”, and we found that we really needed to learn to.

I think that our longing for each other should make us attentive to each other, aware of what our spouse needs and desires, motivate us to truly work for the good of our spouse, and appreciate how incredibly desireable our spouse is.

Bottom line -we need to spend time together, and some of that time needs to be romantic. We can not ignore the sexual elephant without consequences.

1. How do we come together in the marital embrace? How can we live that part of our marital life so that it truly is a renewal of our mutual “yes” of our wedding day?

I hope that these thoughts help give you useful material for the conversations that you are planning, and I’ll keep you in my prayers.

Trudy

 

[PennitentMan]

Ok, I’m not a guy and I’m not married yet, but I see you guys having communication issues with your wives articulating beautifully in your posts. Why can’t you just go through your posts, cut, and paste with appropriate editing and give your wife a note? If you’re not willing to say something I don’t understand how you plan on dealing with the issue. Don’t take this the wrong way and I don’t mean to be rude by saying this so if you take it that way, I’m sorry, but she can’t read your mind and if you don’t tell her there’s a problem and suggest a way to fix the problem, aren’t you just making the situation worse?

O I have tried.

I have tried subtle, as I was councelling searching06 to do, I have tried driect approach, nothing seems to work.

For instance, this weekend, we spoke about it again and all seemed good, but when we got intimact alter, afterwards things have not changed…I was still feeling unfulfilled.

We had spoken about my feelings, she is well aware of how I feel. I even tried to help her be more open/spontanteous, call it what you will, but nope. She remained closed/shy/scared, I do nt know anymore, but honestly, it’s like doing the bare minimum to get the job done. That’s how I feel.

We have spoken about this so many times that every time I bring up the topic now, it’s like “Oh, that again? Honestly…it’s normal, just accept it. Nothing’s wrong.”

She either denies it or gets extremely defensive and we end up fighting…and not matter if we fight, the outcome iss till the same…3 minutes of unfulfulled intercourse…

I’m done talking…

 

[setter]

Thanks, and you, too. I think I have a really long way to go in the communication department. Use to not be that way. Of all of the subjects we need to discuss, it just had to be this one, didn’t it? We can cover just about anything else; though over time, it has grown difficult to share my feelings on anything anyway because since we’ve disagreed on so much for so long, I gradually took on the “what’s the use” and “just suck it up” mentality. I sincerely pray that God will let any conversation be a gentle and understanding one.

To interject my two cents, this is a central issue to any Catholic marriage. A most effective way of keeping this issue up front and center is to 1) model chastity and respect in the marriage, 2) pray daily for the conversion of mind and heart for your spouse, especially efficacious when buttressed by fasting, 3) pray for the courage and charity to speak about your rationale for behaving as you do when the issue is crossed.

 

[setter]

We have spoken about this so many times that every time I bring up the topic now, it’s like “Oh, that again? Honestly…it’s normal, just accept it. Nothing’s wrong.”

She either denies it or gets extremely defensive and we end up fighting…and not matter if we fight, the outcome iss till the same…3 minutes of unfulfulled intercourse…

I’m done talking…

You may need a third party to be able to constructively bridge the topic. Have you checked into your wife’s opennes to speak with a priest, Catholic therapist, mentoring couple through your diocesan family life ministry, or attending a marriage encounter/retrouville retreat weekend? You also need to keep yourself on level ground with daily personal prayer and finding some supports and validation from similar others.

 

[PennitentMan]

You may need a third party to be able to constructively bridge the topic. Have you checked into your wife’s opennes to speak with a priest, Catholic therapist, mentoring couple through your diocesan family life ministry, or attending a marriage encounter/retrouville retreat weekend? You also need to keep yourself on level ground with daily personal prayer and finding some supports and validation from similar others.

I have, she was all for speaking to a priest with me, but backed down a bit later. She doesn’t think we need it.

Our marriage is fine in every way, except this one, and she doesn’t think it’s a problem.
I don’t think a marraige councilling place like Retrouvale would do it, just becasue they address all marital problems…I think we need to see a priest or some sort of one-on one councilling…I’ll still try to sugest that.

 

[setter]

I have, she was all for speaking to a priest with me, but backed down a bit later. She doesn’t think we need it.

Our marriage is fine in every way, except this one, and she doesn’t think it’s a problem.
I don’t think a marraige councilling place like Retrouvale would do it, just becasue they address all marital problems…I think we need to see a priest or some sort of one-on one councilling…I’ll still try to sugest that.

…and pray, pray, pray …it is amazing what the Holy Spirit will do over time to overcome obstancles to greater unity in the marriage.

 

[PennitentMan]

…and pray, pray, pray …it is amazing what the Holy Spirit will do over time to overcome obstancles to greater unity in the marriage.

Yup…I wanted to mention that too, but I forgot.
I guess it goes without saying…
I’m currently on a rosary a day for this intention.

PM

 

[johntkd]

I guess it all goes to how this is approached…

its more how you decide to define words
conception, or contraception
opposite of each other unless you are pushing the NFP for religious reasons, most Catholics in order to view NFP as a means to have intercourse without penalty of being UNopen to life will define Contraception as artificial means only.
then in that same breath will say NFP is more effective in no conception as the artificial methods (ABCs)

if its that effective and that why you are using it its contraception

( counter conception) or the deliberate withholding to avoid conception in the case of NFP the withholding as we see so often complained about on these threads in the marital act.

with an ABC method the withholding is fertility with most types
such as the pill it fools the womans body into believeing it is already prenant thus not releasing an egg, barrier types such as an IUD or condom are by design blocking semen from reaching a viable egg so the withholding is fertilization.
Now with some types of IUDs they also have hormones to also fool the womans body into believing its pregnant however its not 100 percent effective in that regard so in some very rare cases it makes the uterus also unhospitable to a fertilized egg, which in extreme cases can cause an abortion.

anyways I never win this arguement to me anything being used is being unopen to life, if you going to abstain during fertile times to avoid conception the only right thing to do is to abstain during unfertile times as well till you are ready to accept consequences
at any time of the month fertile or not…thats being open to life…

beoing open to life is not using the most effective ( supposed) means to avoid conception…

 

[searching06]

It is sad that the words “afraid” and “terrified” come up when relating to conversations with your wife. Find a Catholic marriage councilor, that may be the answer to many of your issues.

It is quite tough as things have built over time. A counselor may be a step, I guess.