For the Guys (Mostly): "Side Effects of NFP"

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

It doesn’t surprise me that people have struggles with church teeaching on the nature of sexuality. What DOES surprise me is the ease at which people (myself included) have jumped to the conclusion that their difficulties and struggles are the result of some defect in church teaching instead of a defect in themselves.

**Isn’t it funny how once we discover the truth it seems so strange that no one else can see it? I struggle with that myself.

Your story is an inspiration to me.

malia**

 

[manualman]

Your story is an inspiration to me.

malia

Feels weird to be admired merely because I ADMIT that I’m broken and screwed up! Admire Chris West instead. He only USED TO BE broken and screwed up.

 

[duskyjewel]

It sounds like you are saying 10 days without sexual intimacy each month is ruining your married life. You have been married 8 years, is your whole marriage based on sex? That is the way you are coming across. God help us if we can’t have sex whenever we want our lives our over.

Okay, see, this is one of the points where I have a major problem. Ten days the whole month of abstaining? On what planet? Fertile mucus begins 3-5 days before ovulation, and then after ovulation, add another two days for safety and to account for a possible double ovulation. Taking the longer period for fertile mucus, there is 8 days right there. (5 days pre-ov, O-day, then 2 more) Then we have to account for a woman’s period. Unless you have a guy willing to “surf the crimson wave” (and mine is most definitely not) there is another 5 days gone right there. (at least in my case). Also, if you are avoiding, sex during your period is not recommended anyway, as the bleeding could camoflauge fertile mucus that comes early. So now we are up to 13. That is nearly half the month. Now add in the demands of young children, which guarantee that we would not be able to have relations on all of our remaining available 17 nights of “safety.” Someone always has a bad dream, wets the bed, isn’t sleepy, etc, etc, etc. Even by taking just two nights a month away for such interruptions, (and let’s be honest, that’s conservative) you are down to 50% of the time. Only half the month where the couple has the opportunity to be intimate. Now, we all must work to make our marriages a priority, so one could argue that the couple should make every effort to take full advantage of every one of those nights. And I suppose they would be right, but some nights there will be a kid’s performance at school, or extra obligations at work, or perhaps a night time Mass for a Holy Day or special event. All of which will most likely keep the spouses busy until after bedtime and may wear them out, never mind getting the kids out of their routine and making said bedtime 10 times more difficult and longer. And all of which are related to family obligations and not someone being selfish or not putting their marriage first. Add in things like spouses working complementary shifts so that children do not have to be in daycare (as in my family), or a spouse who is a police officer or firefighter and works odd, changing shifts. The reality is that for a couple seeking to avoid pregnancy, the amount of abstinence is much more than the 1/3 of the month stated above. And then the limited time they have will lack spontenaity and may have the problems that the OP and PennitentMan describe. Sadness, loneliness, anger, resentment, frustration, may set in and damage the already limited sexual relationship they have.

I have to agree that the dismissive attitude these problems are often given by NFP advocates is very troubling. It’s always a problem with the people, never the method. We are too weak, selfish, materialistic. Never are we people who just want to make love to our spouses and who really care about our ability to care properly for our kids, and who want to avoid creating children we can’t provide for (materially, emotionally, time-wise, etc).

 

[Em_in_FL]

I haven’t chimed in on this thread in many months… but I have to comment on duskyjewel’s post…

I guess I just don’t understand all the “excuses”…
Yes, your numbers add up… 5 or so days during menstruation, 8 or so around ovulation… but outside of that are many opportunities!

If the intimacy is a PRIORITY… then make it a PRIORITY!

Kids aren’t going to bed on time… let them watch TV for an extra 30 minutes! (yeah, private time! )

Busy night? Set your alarm for 30 minutes earlier! (AWESOME way to start the day! )

Do you KNOW it’s a “safe day”?.. Send suggestive emails to each other during the day to help build up excitement (it’s FUN! )

Yes… we resort to these techniques on a REGULAR basis!
Why? Because we find intimacy to be a priority!

I’ve gotta run… dirty email to attend to…
(There ARE ways…)

 

[manualman]

I already let the secret slip. The secret is to funnel frustrated energy from the blocked out times into nonsexual loving acts for your wife. Do enough of those and you get two benefits:

1. You start to work through typical male problem of objectifying your wife.
2. Your wife notices what you have been doing, which increases her desire to reciprocate ASAP.

 

[rayne89]

Okay, see, this is one of the points where I have a major problem. Ten days the whole month of abstaining? On what planet? Fertile mucus begins 3-5 days before ovulation, and then after ovulation, add another two days for safety and to account for a possible double ovulation. Taking the longer period for fertile mucus, there is 8 days right there. (5 days pre-ov, O-day, then 2 more) Then we have to account for a woman’s period. Unless you have a guy willing to “surf the crimson wave” (and mine is most definitely not) there is another 5 days gone right there. (at least in my case). Also, if you are avoiding, sex during your period is not recommended anyway, as the bleeding could camoflauge fertile mucus that comes early. So now we are up to 13. That is nearly half the month. Now add in the demands of young children, which guarantee that we would not be able to have relations on all of our remaining available 17 nights of “safety.” Someone always has a bad dream, wets the bed, isn’t sleepy, etc, etc, etc. Even by taking just two nights a month away for such interruptions, (and let’s be honest, that’s conservative) you are down to 50% of the time. Only half the month where the couple has the opportunity to be intimate. Now, we all must work to make our marriages a priority, so one could argue that the couple should make every effort to take full advantage of every one of those nights. And I suppose they would be right, but some nights there will be a kid’s performance at school, or extra obligations at work, or perhaps a night time Mass for a Holy Day or special event. All of which will most likely keep the spouses busy until after bedtime and may wear them out, never mind getting the kids out of their routine and making said bedtime 10 times more difficult and longer. And all of which are related to family obligations and not someone being selfish or not putting their marriage first. Add in things like spouses working complementary shifts so that children do not have to be in daycare (as in my family), or a spouse who is a police officer or firefighter and works odd, changing shifts. The reality is that for a couple seeking to avoid pregnancy, the amount of abstinence is much more than the 1/3 of the month stated above. And then the limited time they have will lack spontenaity and may have the problems that the OP and PennitentMan describe. Sadness, loneliness, anger, resentment, frustration, may set in and damage the already limited sexual relationship they have.

I have to agree that the dismissive attitude these problems are often given by NFP advocates is very troubling. It’s always a problem with the people, never the method. We are too weak, selfish, materialistic. Never are we people who just want to make love to our spouses and who really care about our ability to care properly for our kids, and who want to avoid creating children we can’t provide for (materially, emotionally, time-wise, etc).

Yes we are intimate while I have my period. I know some couples don’t go there. When my husband was in the Navy had been gone for 6 months and came home while I was on period suddenly me having my period wasn’t an problem. (Getting friskie in shower takes care of the ick factor and we avoid on my heaviest days.) I rely nearly entirely on my temps because they are so easy to read. It does run closer to two weeks with us but we are very conservative because of the very serious risk to my health/life. I was going by what average couples would do.

And really EM is right -there are ways to find the time if you make it a priority. Really a couple times a month we make a big “event” out it and go for the extended version (sometimes more than a couple if we can work it in) but really exactly how much time do you need? There are 24 hours in a day. You can’t find enough time during that period to get to together. An occasional “quickie” can be fun too. Personally I’d rather do early morning than late at night because in the morning I’m not tired like I am at night. I have a hubby who’s drive is way up there -we’ve learned to be creative.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think I’m learning too much info on some of you!

 

[TIME]

I haven’t chimed in on this thread in many months… but I have to comment on duskyjewel’s post…

I guess I just don’t understand all the “excuses”…
Yes, your numbers add up… 5 or so days during menstruation, 8 or so around ovulation… but outside of that are many opportunities!

If the intimacy is a PRIORITY… then make it a PRIORITY!

Kids aren’t going to bed on time… let them watch TV for an extra 30 minutes! (yeah, private time! )

Busy night? Set your alarm for 30 minutes earlier! (AWESOME way to start the day! )

Do you KNOW it’s a “safe day”?.. Send suggestive emails to each other during the day to help build up excitement (it’s FUN! )

Yes… we resort to these techniques on a REGULAR basis!
Why? Because we find intimacy to be a priority!

I’ve gotta run… dirty email to attend to…
(There ARE ways…)

Em, you go girl.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Manualman,
The Church has NOT been consistent about sex as you might think. The early church fathers had varying ideas about sex and some of them were downright crazy! St. Augustine, if you read his commentaries on sex, believed it SINFUL to abstain from sex during fertile periods and focus one’s sexual activity during the infertile periods. He believed it to be horribly sinful and downright pagan. Sounds as if he’d hate NFP?! Justin Martyr claimed that we should treat our wives “as we would our sisters” after we have had children and have no more sex for the remainder of our marriage! Clement and company claimed that the hallmark of being a Christian was being celibate after children were born and that sex was ONLY for marriage. Nowdays, popes claim the “unitive and procreative” as equally important. That’s nice but not consistent with ancient Christian thought? So, who has changed? I don’t think people who are for birth control are of the thinking that sex was just invented in the last fifty years. That’s an oversimplification to be sure. The problem with extreme orthodox Roman Catholics sometimes is that they oversimplify and mix truth with exaggeration. For example: the sexual revolution produced birth control mentalities. That’s simply not true. Birth control has existed for centuries and in many many cases for evil purposes such as to induce abortion. Likewise, ladies like Margaret Sanger wanted to use birth control to eliminate “undesirable” races and “inferior” folks to create a super race. Sounds like Kahn off of Star Trek!! But there are many folks who do NOT want this crazy stuff. They just want to have a nice family, be procreative but NOT for every single intimate moment of their marriage? You view procreation as a factor in each and every intimate encounter you have with your spouse. God bless ya. That’s fine! I totally respect that. But some people, especially Pope Paul VI’s papal commission in an overwhelming majority in the late sixties, view procreation as ESSENTIAL to marriage as a WHOLE, during the course of a marriage, not in EACH AND EVERY sex act.
We also hear that people who want to employ some artificial birth control into their marriage will become pro-abortion. Poppycock. I LOATHE abortion, always will. I don’t equate the two as I’m smarter than that. So are a TON of Catholics and protestants who use birth control. Also contraception is supposed to lead to pro-homosexual sympathies. Bologna! I am 100% against that lifestyle. I’m also against cohabitation, trial marriages, divorce, invitro fertilization, stem cell research, right-to-die, etc. So, the oversimplification that birth control=total liberal nutjob just doesn’t hold up. Are there kooks who want abortion, women priests, gay marriages along with contraception? Sure there are. I’m not one of them!
I very deeply respect your opinion and the opinions of other folks who don’t want to contracept. I just think the Church needs to explore this again, needs to know that NOT all couples are the same and have the same factors financially, mentally, behaviorally, and socially to have ten thousand kids, some don’t want ten thousand kids, small families of three or four are NOT akin to blasphemy and bad parenting, and there are indeed MANY couples who have had more damage done to their marriages from NFP than blessings. If it has blessed your marriage, again, wonderful! I know many many folks who don’t claim the same experience. But, invariably, the pro-NFP folks say: “that’s not NFP’s fault, it’s yours!”

 

[Good_Daughter]

But there are many folks who do NOT want this crazy stuff. They just want to have a nice family, be procreative but NOT for every single intimate moment of their marriage? You view procreation as a factor in each and every intimate encounter you have with your spouse. God bless ya. That’s fine! I totally respect that. But some people, especially Pope Paul VI’s papal commission in an overwhelming majority in the late sixties, view procreation as ESSENTIAL to marriage as a WHOLE, during the course of a marriage, not in EACH AND EVERY sex act.

Church teaching on marital sex tries to protect the faithful from the spiritual poison of contraception.

I’m curious, are you arguing that contraception is not spiritual poison? If that is your argument, how can you be sure?

 

[manualman]

Doctrine does in fact develop. Any single early father can and often does hold specific positions on specific issues that conflict with later church teaching. Catholicism does not hold up each early father as individually infallible. THAT is an oversimplification. But there is a clear prohibition against contraception that goes all the way back to the OLD testament. The wobbling early on was in the development of the understanding of WHY God revealed this truth to us so long ago, not the morality of the practice of contraception.

Believe me, I understand the frustration you have with what you perceive to be the Church’s stubborn insistance on sticking with something that is so hard to live with. There surely are many who find it excruciating to live with and I’ve been one of them. I just don’t know why you seem so sure that that means the teaching is flawed instead of US being flawed.

Forgive me for generalizing, but this is an extremely common thread amongst those who dissent from catholic teachings of all stripes. There has been a forgetfulness about Original Sin and the fact that evil in our world is NOT just the result of external forces weighing on us, but of INTERNAL flaws in our character that need to be sanctified through Grace. It’s EASY to be against abortion when you aren’t a woman in a crisis pregnancy, its easy to be against sodomy when you don’t have an SSA. But when folks get IN those situations, they start making arguments much like yours: This is so HARD. It is RUINING my life. It makes me miserable. This CAN’T be what God wants for me, so the Church must be wrong. When one forgets that we each suffer the effects of original sin, it is easy to argue “Deep in my heart I know that my love for this man is good and holy and therefore it cannot be wrong.”

The only defense against such rationalizing is to trust God’s revelation more than your own gut.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve made this point in another thread, but I think it warrants a comment here.

In my experience working in ministry, I am priveladged and honored that couples share deep things with me.

I know there are exceptions to what I am about to say, but this is my honest experience with people I know:

Couples that lived chastely the whole time they have been together…while dating, etc. They did not sleep together before married, and they learned NFP BEFORE they were married. They had no problems (are hardly any) living out times of abstainance.

Couples that changed over during their marriage, who slept together before marriage, or used ABC first, then changed to NFP, didn’t have the formed will it took to live it out, so it became something very difficult for them to live out, and they became resentful.

Those that had the time of formation and preparation formed their will.

So it could be quite possible that this attitude was brought on by yourself and your past (I don’t know…just a thought).

It’s fantastic when anyone confesses a sin and tries to sin no more, but that doesn’t make the consequences of all of our past sins just melt away. Perhaps this is penance for your past sins.

anyway…just a thought

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Manuelman

You make an excellent argument, very well-stated. Kudos. I appreciate a finely-crafted argument from an intelligent person such as yourself. I do disagree with you that I’m making this statement because it is hard FOR ME. I have defended NFP up one side and down the other at work with folks who have thought my wife and I crazy for living this lifestyle. And I DON’T support Catholic teaching against abortion, cohabitation, in vitro, homosexuality, etc. just because those aren’t issues that I personally have to face. You make an excellent argument to be sure! But it simply isn’t my case to be quite frank with you. I personally think divorce is necessary in more cases than just with adultery. The Church and more specifically JESUS says otherwise. That is the wisdom of God vs. my personal flawed wisdom. So, I follow Jesus and condemn divorce. With in vitro, I can imagine it must be a horrendous experience to be infertile and not have one’s OWN children. I would personally endorse it probably but the Church makes a very COMPELLING argument about the slippery slope it leads to…cloaning, designer children, eugenics, corrupt tampering, and shady business. I condemn abortion because it is most plainly murder, obviously. There is just common sense in seeing life begins at conception. It isn’t even a spiritual truth but an obvious biological one. Contraception is not that plain. NFP is very unnatural in my opinion. Having sex when a woman is NOT FERTILE and NOT in the mood to have sex is in itself UN-natural and a half? I just don’t understand how a person can consider having sex during the most low-libidoed time of the month can be natural? Women are most enthusiastic, romantic, and desirous of intercourse during their ovulation phase. It is natural to want relations in this time. It is not in itself natural to place a barrier there be it the pill or condom but neither is having sex during a dry, infertile, unenthusiastic time that is contrived and planned as if it were an appointment? There is no spontaneity (sp?), no romance there, but rather a contrived calendar where things are scheduled and penciled-in. I find it odd and I have talked to many many folks in these forums that also find it robotic, a bit contrived/forced, and unnatural. The pill uses hormones that naturally exist anyway, just enhanced. Again, not 100% natural but neither is sex at that time of the month for most people.

Catholics of the heavy right wing self-proclaimed orthodox end often, like Pharisees, pride themselves in following Church code of cannon laws and the catechism to a tee thus justifying themselves in this pride that they are in tune with Christ at the expense of the justification of faith and grace that Christ gives us (I know I’ll be accused of being a Martin Lutherite now). These same folks use a great degree of ANACHRONISMS. They quote the Church Fathers when it SUITS THEM about sacraments, Church government, many matters of theology, etc. But when the Fathers say something insane, they chalk it up to “that was just ONE MAN’S opinion and doctrine is developmental, it was in its early stages.”
I wish I had your confidence that natural family planning were straight from God Himself. I know it comes from a bunch of celibate Popes (and as the old saying goes, “misery loves company” celibacy for priests…quasi-celibacy for married folks) and Cardinals who will never know what it’s like to be married or father children and thus have little credibility in that department. I know I’ll get burned at the stake for saying that. Yes, I think clerical celibacy is a mistake and I take a priest’s advice fairly lightly in marital matters.
When it comes to divorce, homosexuality, infidelity, promiscuity, etc. the Scriptures are very clear on these matters. Our Lord comments on some of them, the OT or Paul in others. I am not of the Sola Scriptura mindset though the Early Church Fathers were in large part. I think Scripture should guide us in some direction with such matters. I also think modernity should not TOTALLY be rejected. Often Catholicism seeks to keep us Medievel. The birth control pill never existed in ancient times so it’s a bit of a moot point that the Fathers would know of the argument. Most birth control in their day consisted of abortifacient poisonous herbs and semi-abortions. They came from temple prostitutes and other pagans who lived a filthy lifestyle free of the purpose of pro-creation at all. This is hardly what a married couple with three, four or five kids wanting to stop at that point is doing.

I agree that modern culture is putting the pleasure of sex above procreation. It’s sad. But should procreation be a necessity of marriage (yes) or a necessary possibility in EACH and EVERY single act physically (??). I know you’ll say yes to the second, and I respect that. I just disagree at this point. God bless.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Church teaching on marital sex tries to protect the faithful from the spiritual poison of contraception.

I’m curious, are you arguing that contraception is not spiritual poison? If that is your argument, how can you be sure?

Other than papal decrees, you can’t prove that it IS spiritual poison? I hope if you are willing to call contraception “spiritual poison,” that you are NOT using NFP to avoid conception on a regular basis. I remind you that the Catechism and the Church is very clear that NFP is NOT to be used for a prolonged period of time as most of these orthodox folks believe. NFP is supposed to be used only “periodically” in SPACING out children for “just reasons.” I would be that you have few just reasons yourself like most of us. What is a “just” reason? Prolonged mental or physical illness, extreme poverty, etc. I can think of several other “just” reasons from my perspective. But the Church does not give us much guidance in this area. So, NFP in itself is NOT to be used as a “natural contraceptive.” That being said, to avoid the “spiritual poisons” of contraception and to make sure we are living in total charity, self-giving, only having a “just reason” to use NFP, that would mean, and let’s be honest, that most of our lives we DON’T really have many “just reasons” so, if one were to marry at 25 years old and remain fertile until, let’s say, 47, and only HALF of your marriage you had “just reasons,” you would have 11 kids if you were very fertile. And that’s only if HALF of your marriage you had these very serious reasons. Well, more likely 75% of your marriage you would not have good enough reasons to use NFP so you would, if fertile, have 17 kids.

So, to be a good Catholic, you better plan on having 10-18 kids or so. Why? Because, as stated, NFP is NOT a natural form of birth control. The Church very plainly tells us that it is to be temporary in cases where, “for just reasons,” we can’t properly afford to or are unable to care for a child. We know that, for most of us, such cases are rare, so, you’ll be having one large litter! But, even most orthodox Catholics who love to brag that they don’t use “spiritual poisons” of birth control do INDEED use NFP as just that, natural birth control, feeling proud and justified that they are holy and artificial birth control users are doomed sinners taking poisons. In reality, NFP is a sin if used in a prolonged manner as natural birth control.

Such matters are not simple and hard for just about everyone. Very few Catholics follow the teachings of the Church on this NFP issue, even NFP users!

 

[laariii]

"I just don’t understand how a person can consider having sex during the most low-libidoed time of the month can be natural? "
gurneyhalleck1

Well, i think that having sex when you are infertile & maybe not all the interested is more “natural” than taking hormones to make you body think it’s permanently pregnant - Yuck!

 

[sing]

Speaking as a married woman, if my choices are nfp or total abstinence, i’ll take abstinence. I grew up in a 10 child NFP practicing family. Never ever ever will i take that road.

 

[marymol]

I’ve made this point in another thread, but I think it warrants a comment here.

In my experience working in ministry, I am priveladged and honored that couples share deep things with me.

I know there are exceptions to what I am about to say, but this is my honest experience with people I know:

Couples that lived chastely the whole time they have been together…while dating, etc. They did not sleep together before married, and they learned NFP BEFORE they were married. They had no problems (are hardly any) living out times of abstainance.

Couples that changed over during their marriage, who slept together before marriage, or used ABC first, then changed to NFP, didn’t have the formed will it took to live it out, so it became something very difficult for them to live out, and they became resentful.

Those that had the time of formation and preparation formed their will.

So it could be quite possible that this attitude was brought on by yourself and your past (I don’t know…just a thought).

It’s fantastic when anyone confesses a sin and tries to sin no more, but that doesn’t make the consequences of all of our past sins just melt away. Perhaps this is penance for your past sins.

anyway…just a thought

Thank you for sharing this excellent truth (and concur with same , from my own limited experinece with other couples who do N.F.P).

Isn’t one definition of idolatry , the falsehood that life is just a game of pleasure … yet , seems even many so called pagan cultures realised the relationship between chastity and (marital ) health , thus strongly advocating same .

Our thoughts and actions have impact on many, at many levels ; does resisting some of the urges and then engaging in the marital act with the deep sense of reverence and sacramentality make up any sense of deprivation …possible ; do children conceived under those holy circumstances become such joy and blessings that even an unexpected miracle only become a cause of gratitude alone …with God , things are possible …

The graces earned through the stuggles and efforts to fill in the hunger with bread not of this world - does it become a source to change the course of events far beyond , such as averting the satanic bondage of may be a rapist , a child molester …even wars …may be one day history books would study events , from more of this spiritual aspect !

Peace !

 

[Em_in_FL]

NFP is very unnatural in my opinion. Having sex when a woman is NOT FERTILE and NOT in the mood to have sex is in itself UN-natural and a half? I just don’t understand how a person can consider having sex during the most low-libidoed time of the month can be natural? Women are most enthusiastic, romantic, and desirous of intercourse during their ovulation phase. It is natural to want relations in this time. It is not in itself natural to place a barrier there be it the pill or condom but neither is having sex during a dry, infertile, unenthusiastic time that is contrived and planned as if it were an appointment? There is no spontaneity (sp?), no romance there, but rather a contrived calendar where things are scheduled and penciled-in. I find it odd and I have talked to many many folks in these forums that also find it robotic, a bit contrived/forced, and unnatural. The pill uses hormones that naturally exist anyway, just enhanced. Again, not 100% natural but neither is sex at that time of the month for most people.

Complete lack of libido outside of the fertile phase of a woman’s cycle may be a medical issue. This is definitely something to bring up with a doctor.
Actually, if she’s on the pill then her libido will DEFINITELY be lower than if she were not… just something to consider (sorta ironic, huh?).
The hormones in the pill are not naturally generated by the woman’s body. There are a multitude of reasons why the pill can be extremely damaging to women’s health, let along their spiritual life. Many studies have linked correlations between the pill and cervical cancer, breast cancer, future fertility issues, etc, etc. Without even considering the spiritual damage, there’s more than enough evidence to steer away for health/medical reasons.

I agree that modern culture is putting the pleasure of sex above procreation. It’s sad. But should procreation be a necessity of marriage (yes) or a necessary possibility in EACH and EVERY single act physically (??). I know you’ll say yes to the second, and I respect that. I just disagree at this point. God bless.

Yes, procreation should be a possibility in each and every single act of intercourse.
POSSIBILITY does not necessarily imply PROBABILITY. NFP is extremely effective and can lower that probability when the couple feels it’s necessary.

 

[whatevergirl]

gurney;

your thoughts sound like they are straight from my husband’s mouth…we were discussing this thread the other night, and he agrees…how does one know for sure that NFP came straight from God’s mouth? How do we know that celibate clergy wasn’t trying to ‘inflict’ some of their own ‘misery,’ as you put it, on us? I hesitate to agree with those sentiments, are we saying our clergy are sadists? I don’t think so. My husband thinks so, though. He had a hard time with NFP, when we were practicing. We practice nothing now, but do not want to have any more children.

I just wanted to chime in, because I think that it can be hard to follow all of the Church’s teachings, at times. If it were ‘easy’ everyone would be Catholic, right? My husband does feel this way though, like you gurney–he said that there shouldn’t be strife between a couple, in this department. Marriage can be challenging, but he feels that the RCC is placing unnecessary restraints on couples in loving marriages. He doesn’t blindly believe that all Church teachings come directly from God…

 

[gardenswithkids]

…NFP is very unnatural in my opinion. Having sex when a woman is NOT FERTILE and NOT in the mood to have sex is in itself UN-natural and a half? I just don’t understand how a person can consider having sex during the most low-libidoed time of the month can be natural? Women are most enthusiastic, romantic, and desirous of intercourse during their ovulation phase. It is natural to want relations in this time. It is not in itself natural to place a barrier there be it the pill or condom but neither is having sex during a dry, infertile, unenthusiastic time that is contrived and planned as if it were an appointment? There is no spontaneity (sp?), no romance there, but rather a contrived calendar where things are scheduled and penciled-in. …I wish I had your confidence that natural family planning were straight from God Himself. …I agree that modern culture is putting the pleasure of sex above procreation. It’s sad. But should procreation be a necessity of marriage (yes) or a necessary possibility in EACH and EVERY single act physically (??)…

I read through this entire old thread and hesitated to write anything because I am not a guy. I think manualman and others have done an excellant job posting. But I do want to add the Catholic Church teachings do NOT require married couples to use NFP. If NFP is that difficult, then maybe you should seriously evaluate your reasons for avoiding pregnancy.

Children are blessings from God, the Lord and Giver of Life. The Church calls children the “Supreme gift of marriage”. God does not bless every couple with a large family of a dozen children. Remember Jacob of the Old Testament? --he fathered twelve sons but that took him two wives and their maids too. It might be a bit presumptious when we fear that God would find us worthy of a dozen or more children. I don’t remember the exact number that the average couple produces without using any form of birth control, but it isn’t that big. Most couples are not that fertile.

The women who show more fertile signs do need to abstain more from relations when using NFP to avoid children. Such extended times of abstinance may be hard on a marriage. I found that in my marriage, and with our history of using contraception the temptation arose to return to using contraception. It was the worst when trying to monitor for return of fertility while breastfeeding. After alot of struggles and a miscarriage, we solved our troubles by not using NFP and placing our child-bearing entirely in God’s hands. Yes, we have had more children, but we regard those children as blessings rather than seeing them as “accidents”. We both are getting older now–and I still show extended signs of fertility which would require extensive abstainance *if *we used NFP; however, we are *not *using NFP, we have lots of “spontaneity”. and I’m not pregnant.

I know NFP can be difficult on wives and particularly on some husbands. One of the best side-effects of that difficulty for my husband and me was that we learned to trust our fertility entirely to God. Yes, He has blessed us with more children for that decision. Maybe not everyone who struggles with NFP can afford to just throw out the charts and be spontaneously intimate with their spouse; if that is the case then may God give you grace to use NFP. But if God isn’t giving you the grace to use NFP, and if you repeatedly find your wife pregnant when the charts say she shouldn’t be getting pregnant, it appears God’s plan for your family differs from your plans for your family.

The Church allows NFP, but doesn’t require it. It is also in line with Church teachings to trust God to plan our family size.