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armyross
Guest
I don’t care which post you are talking about I gave it to you anyway.
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Stephen168
New member
Catholic convert (ex-Mormon)
Posts on a Catholic Forum
The story of a person that drew them to the Catholic Church
The reasonable opposite would be:
A Mormon (ex-Catholic)
Posts on a Mormon Forum
The story of a person that drew them to the Mormon Church
So-
Posts on a Catholic Forum
The story of a person that drew them to the Catholic Church
The reasonable opposite would be:
A Mormon (ex-Catholic)
Posts on a Mormon Forum
The story of a person that drew them to the Mormon Church
So-
And because Mormons are not reasonable-
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armyross
Guest
Well put Stephen
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zerinus
Guest
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why_me
Guest
Mormons come here to this section of the forum to correct the wrongs that are said about the lds church. If no threads were about the lds, not many lds would post on this forum.
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majick275
Guest
no mormons come here to perpetuate lies and obscure the truth presented here. they troll for converts and will always do so.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Go ahead and read the webpage that Z linked.
Read this first though. I don’t think Z’s linked webpage will mention this. To be fair I am providing one failed prophesy and one revelation that did come true, both from Joseph Smith.
According to the Mormon Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5, Joseph Smith prophesied a temple, to be known as the city of the New Jerusalem, would be built in the Western boundaries of the state of Missouri. I have bolded parts of this passage, below, for emphasis.
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
This temple has not been built yet, some 160+ years later. Even if it was, can the hand of Joseph Smith dedicate it?
How can we tell a false prophet? Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tells us how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain.
Deu 18:21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.
One false prophesy proves a false prophet.
The following revelation did come true.
In D&C 3:4 (given in 1828), we find this: “For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him…”
Joseph Smith gave a speech in May 1844, Smith proclaimed this: "I have more to boast of than any man ever had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a church together since the days of Adam.…Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."
Just 30 days from making that boast, on June 27, 1844; Joseph Smith was shot in Carthage jail. He fell, and incurred the vengeance of a just God upon himself.
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
Read this first though. I don’t think Z’s linked webpage will mention this. To be fair I am providing one failed prophesy and one revelation that did come true, both from Joseph Smith.
According to the Mormon Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5, Joseph Smith prophesied a temple, to be known as the city of the New Jerusalem, would be built in the Western boundaries of the state of Missouri. I have bolded parts of this passage, below, for emphasis.
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
This temple has not been built yet, some 160+ years later. Even if it was, can the hand of Joseph Smith dedicate it?
How can we tell a false prophet? Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tells us how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain.
Deu 18:21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.
One false prophesy proves a false prophet.
The following revelation did come true.
In D&C 3:4 (given in 1828), we find this: “For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him…”
Joseph Smith gave a speech in May 1844, Smith proclaimed this: "I have more to boast of than any man ever had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a church together since the days of Adam.…Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."
Just 30 days from making that boast, on June 27, 1844; Joseph Smith was shot in Carthage jail. He fell, and incurred the vengeance of a just God upon himself.
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
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RebeccaJ
Guest
What was zerinus correcting, exactly, with his link to lds.org?
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Jash
Guest
Nothing but it was more on topic than Prodigal Son1’s copy/paste.
Less attack, more discussion please.
Returning to the original post…
This story converted you? How/why? Its a great story about a good man clearly trying to live his life in accordance to the light and knowledge of god but I find it strange it would “convert” someone. To be honest it reminds me a lot of various mormon pioneer stories I have heard over the years. Is this story typical of most Saints in Catholicism? If it is then the LDS sure have a lot of “Saints.”
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Not the story, the Saint.Nothing but it was more on topic than Prodigal Son1’s copy/paste.
Less attack, more discussion please.
Returning to the original post…
This story converted you? How/why? Its a great story about a good man clearly trying to live his life in accordance to the light and knowledge of god but I find it strange it would “convert” someone. To be honest it reminds me a lot of various mormon pioneer stories I have heard over the years. Is this story typical of most Saints in Catholicism? If it is then the LDS sure have a lot of “Saints.”
ProdigalSon1 was responding to Zerinus’ link (see his blog! lol.).
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RebeccaJ
Guest
duplicate post
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Sorry but the whole thing strikes me as contrived to be “faith promoting” I don’t find any inspiration there at all.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
Mormonism is a non-Christian heresy. The sooner that the adherents of that heresy abandon it, the better. Unfortunately, Mormonism is not just a religion, it is also a lifestyle with it’s own sub-culture.
When a member of the LDS church leaves, for whatever reason, even tho’ it may not be “official” Mormon policy, the facts are that they are usually shunned by the rest of their Mormon friends. In fact they often find out which ones were their “friends” and which ones were not their friends, in this process. Real friends stay, the others drop off.
Exceptions to this shunning process are rare. It does not matter if that is not official policy, it is enough that such shunning occurs. Some people are hesitant to risk such social isolation. Others cannot risk their jobs. We need to be understanding of the social and economic issues Mormons face when considering conversion to Christianity. It can be a troublesome event. Loss of “friends”, even employment, can be at risk.
When a member of the LDS church leaves, for whatever reason, even tho’ it may not be “official” Mormon policy, the facts are that they are usually shunned by the rest of their Mormon friends. In fact they often find out which ones were their “friends” and which ones were not their friends, in this process. Real friends stay, the others drop off.
Exceptions to this shunning process are rare. It does not matter if that is not official policy, it is enough that such shunning occurs. Some people are hesitant to risk such social isolation. Others cannot risk their jobs. We need to be understanding of the social and economic issues Mormons face when considering conversion to Christianity. It can be a troublesome event. Loss of “friends”, even employment, can be at risk.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Hello Jash,Nothing but it was more on topic than Prodigal Son1’s copy/paste.
Less attack, more discussion please.
Returning to the original post…
This story converted you? How/why? Its a great story about a good man clearly trying to live his life in accordance to the light and knowledge of god but I find it strange it would “convert” someone. To be honest it reminds me a lot of various mormon pioneer stories I have heard over the years. Is this story typical of most Saints in Catholicism? If it is then the LDS sure have a lot of “Saints.”
Welcome to CAF.
I’ll admit, I copied and pasted that information on this thread, however, it is information that I compiled myself while in debates with other Mormons on these forums. I used the Doctrines and Covenants website directly from the LDS website. My questions were geniune. Three different Mormons gave three different answers to the points and questions I raised about Joseph Smith being a false prophet.
You seem to disgard the information rather quickly, without addressing those points at all. Are we to assume those points as valid as they appear?
If Joseph Smith was a false prophet, I feel a responsibility to provide that information to anyone considering joining or attending a Church started by him.
As for the blogs, zerinus’ is biased from a Mormons perspective and mine is biased from a Catholic perspective. I started my blog in response to zerinus throwing his out there as if it were solid proof of what he stated in here. I haven’t done that. I have however provided links to the LDS online Doctrines and Covenants as part of the documentation to support what I have discovered about Joseph Smith. So, zerinus links to a blog that he wrote himself to support his arguments, I link to your Church’s links to support my arguments.
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
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CarolinNC
Guest
I, too, converted from Mormonism for similar reasons; but for me it was the fact that there are many saints in the Catholic Church, who lead truly selfless lives, but I found none in the LDS church to compare with them.
Faith, Hope & Charity abound where the Lord lives.
The Lord be Praised; may He always be Praised.
Faith, Hope & Charity abound where the Lord lives.
The Lord be Praised; may He always be Praised.
J
Jash
Guest
I choose not to reply because they are easily recognizable as anti literature. Take a small quote in a book, use it to make your point. Similar approaches could be used against any church. Lucky for you, there are not as many anti-catholics as anti-mormons.
Since you have requested a reply I will give you one. Like President Hinkley, Joseph Smith had a sense of humor. The remark you have quoted was likely a joke. The prophesy/instructions you have quoted will be fulfilled in whatever the Lords definition of “this generation” is.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I apologize, I did not realize the Doctrines and Covenants was anti literature.
Will the dedication of that temple also be by the hand of Joseph Smith who did not translate, but died of a gunshot?
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
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Jash
Guest
You know, you remind me a little of a friend of mine who was catholic. He switched to the LDS church a few years ago. He was also really good at deliberately taking words and twisting them.
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
They’re LDS words directly from the Doctrines and
Covenants, please respond to the quote where the prophesy is posted and tell me how I twisted the words. Saying one twisted words without refuting the particular twist doesn’t not help your argument.
One Mormon said something similar to what you said, that the generation had not yet passed (160+ years later). When I pointed out that it said it was to be dedicated by the hand of Jospeh Smith, he quit responding and another Mormon said it’s a commandment not a prophesy. Then I emphasized where it said it was word from the Lord through the mouth of His prophets, then he quit responding.
This is a Catholic forum, what Mormons teach is against the Catholic Church. Expect us to question Mormonism with tough questions. If tough questions are off limits…it speaks for itself.
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I am reposting the information to make it easier on you to point out where I have twisted anything. I use the Doctrines and Covenants from the LDS website, an excerpt from Joseph Smith’s speech (easily found online) and Old Testament scriptures for documentation.
According to the Mormon Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5, Joseph Smith prophesied a temple, to be known as the city of the New Jerusalem, would be built in the Western boundaries of the state of Missouri. I have bolded parts of this passage, below, for emphasis.
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
This temple has not been built yet, some 160+ years later. Even if it was, can the hand of Joseph Smith dedicate it?
How can we tell a false prophet? Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tells us how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain.
Deu 18:21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.
One false prophesy proves a false prophet.
The following revelation did come true.
In D&C 3:4 (given in 1828), we find this: “For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him…”
Joseph Smith gave a speech in May 1844, Smith proclaimed this: "I have more to boast of than any man ever had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a church together since the days of Adam.…Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."
Just 30 days from making that boast, on June 27, 1844; Joseph Smith was shot to death in Carthage jail.
May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1
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