For the "seperated brethren"

[Roree]

Ahimsa:

If I may add my :twocents:, though the question was not addressed to me. It might be my mystical/contemplative temperament, but I don’t see the Catholic Church’s teachings in a “it’s-either-all-true-or-all-false” fashion, especially when it comes to issues that don’t touch on the essence of morality and ethics.

For instance, on the issue of transubstantiation – I don’t see how belief in it, or disbelief in it, really changes how a person would treat a hungry dog on the street. If you have a good ethical sense, you’re gonna feed that dog if you can – regardless of your position on the nature of the bread and wine after consecration.

I would agree with you that the Catholic Church is not the only way to making good ethical decisions. In fact, many religions are firmly grounded in “doing no harm”, “peace” and “others first,” but the context of the statement was on religious truth or fullness of it for that matter, within the Catholic Church.

 

[streetcar]

Thanks for the info guys…I don’t have enough time to fully read it all right now, but I will continue to read into this all.

I also thank you for your kindess and readiness to help me…my earlier run-ins with this forum have not been very positive. (just being honest here).

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Ahimsa]

Roree:

I would agree with you that the Catholic Church is not the only way to making good ethical decisions. In fact, many religions are firmly grounded in “doing no harm”, “peace” and “others first,” but the context of the statement was on religious truth or fullness of it for that matter, within the Catholic Church.

If a particular theology (say, the theology of the CC) creates ethical and moral and compassionate behavior in a person, then perhaps that is what really counts. For instance, if Muslims believe Muhammad is a prophet who actually encountered the angel Gabriel, while Christians deny that he met Gabriel, which side is true is not empirically verifiable. What is verifiable, to some degree at least, is what type of behavior such a belief has upon the believer. For a Muslim, belief in Muhammad might lead to compassionate and just behavior; and for a Christian, disbelief in Muhammad might lead to equally just and unselfish behavior.

So as long as the Catholic Church, or any other religious group, doesn’t blatantly contradict what is empirically obvious to everyone, I don’t take a “is-it-true-or-not” approach; I take a “does-it-produce-compassion-and-justice or not” approach.

 

[streetcar]

jusher7281:

Dear Jake,

I applaude your honesty and integrity. The purpose of my reply is not to answer your questions, as there are many others who will be able to give you much better information than I can, but you are looking in the right direction. If you are honestly seeking the truth, and it sounds like you are, God will reveal it to you. You are in my prayers.

Joe

I’ve always felt that if I’m not being honest to people, then I’m not being honest to myself or to God.

Thanks for the kind word

 

[streetcar]

Roree:

Jake (streetcar), I would have to say that the attitude of being open and willing to discuss your reservations and to understand is a great blessing. Keep it up and God Bless.

No problem. Faith is a big issue for me, and for me to fully know God, I must fully understand the Catholic church - even if I choose not to convert, I know I will be much different than from where I started.

I feel it would be foolish for me to not to know about the original church.

 

[Roman_Army]

twiztedseraph:

Hey. I spent most of my formative spiritual years in Baptist Bible studies, so I don’t have big grudge against the Protestant communities. That said I was just wondering what factor is keeping the substantial amount of protestant members in this forum well, protestant? Thank you for answering.

Most likely pride and the fear of change. Another factor could be ignorance of the full Truth (for those who are new here). I hope most who attend these forums would be converted, or at least be more tolerant. Protestants have nothing to lose in entering. In fact, they have more to gain, for most of their religion is the subtraction of truth. All they have to do is step up to the plate and add to it making it the fullness of truth. The Church embraces all with open arms:

http://www.cs.utah.edu/~bigler/pictures/europe2002/italy/st%20peter’s%20basilica.jpg

**That was the purpose of those long arms of St. Peter’s Basilica, to hug the audience. Mother Church loves you. **** **

 

[jusher7281]

streetcar:

No problem. Faith is a big issue for me, and for me to fully know God, I must fully understand the Catholic church - even if I choose not to convert, I know I will be much different than from where I started.

I feel it would be foolish for me to not to know about the original church.

AMEN, brother. God bless you!

 

[Roree]

Ahimsa:

If a particular theology (say, the theology of the CC) creates ethical and moral and compassionate behavior in a person, then perhaps that is what really counts. For instance, if Muslims believe Muhammad is a prophet who actually encountered the angel Gabriel, while Christians deny that he met Gabriel, which side is true is not empirically verifiable. What is verifiable, to some degree at least, is what type of behavior such a belief has upon the believer. For a Muslim, belief in Muhammad might lead to compassionate and just behavior; and for a Christian, disbelief in Muhammad might lead to equally just and unselfish behavior.

So as long as the Catholic Church, or any other religious group, doesn’t blatantly contradict what is empirically obvious to everyone, I don’t take a “is-it-true-or-not” approach; I take a “does-it-produce-compassion-and-justice or not” approach.

Ahimsa , your comments are well taken but I think I need to clarify. I believe there is truth outside the Church. We view Protestants as seperated brethren, with truth, just not the fullness. Are there absolute truths within the Islamic religion, I would think so. My comment I think has been distorted or maybe misinterpreted. My question was that as a Catholic, I claim that my faith contains the fullness of truth including worshipping and following the Word made Flesh, Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. These such claims, IMHO, are pretty radical from any perspective. This is why I say that I feel that the Church is either all-good (claiming Apostolic Authority and the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, to name a few) or not (I guess with claims like that, it would have to be true, cuz if not, we probably would be blaspheming, and if we are, that would certainly not make us very Christian in practice or belief.) So, my question was addressed to Protestants who are not Catholic who view us as Christian and how you deal with these claims AND if you believe in them, why are you not Catholic?

 

[twiztedseraph]

Now see this is why I joined these forums. To set up a discussion just like this. So yeah SCORE. MUHAAHAHAHAHAHA. Btw if u wanna see how stupid I can get read my America the Beautiful forum. My eternal Apologies for that. Keep the posts coming.