For the truth seeker.

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gurrato alaien:
Lol, brother Islam is the unique path to salvation to avoid dwelling in the hell fire for ever. So the decision is yours.
May God guide you to the truth before its too late. Amen.
Pecae.
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LOL. brother, Had Paul not written his letter to people in Galatian (1:6), then I would have had to believe Quran has spoken the truth. 😛 I have made my final decision. I’m with Lord Jesus!! 👍
 
Rodrigo Bivar:
The song of solomon 5:16 machmad, not muhammad, nonsence is debunked here. therefinersfire.org/muhammed_in_ot.htm
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I am afraid that the debunkation you are referring to makes no sense.

There are many indications about Islam and the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Judeo-Christian scriptures even after they were either lost or destroyed and re-written out of oral tradition and got corrupted.

And there are many prophecies in other major religious books as well, about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

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gurrato alaien:
Yes it’s a guarantee, to be Muslim testify that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah do good deeds and the five pillars of Islam. However those who have sins will be punished,

May God guide you to the truth. Amen
Peace.
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I think I’ll stick with Christianity thank you. Even without arguing about which is right, it does seem to offer a better chance than Islam.

You say of Islam that “those who have sins will be punished”. Personally I have sins. I haven’t yet met anyone who hasn’t. And the Bible even goes as far as to state that if someone says they are without sin then they lie to themselves and the truth is not in them. And that if someone says they are without sin then they make God a liar.

However the same passage also says “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity.”

You say that I will be punished in Islam. I much prefer the Christian message, of this faithful God who will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all iniquity. So I will stick to my forgiving God rather than turning to another only to be punished.

Of course, there are plenty of other reasons for grasping more and more firmly onto the true God that is proclaimed by the Catholic Church. That’s just one of them.
 
If anyone’s has got confused about the paraclete, here’s a worthwhile article - it’s long and goes into great depth.

answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/comforter.htm

Basically the article looks at the Christian and Islamic views and then shows who the paraclete referred to is. It looks thoroughly at the scriptures, Church history, linguistic studies and so on. It asks the questions that get asked to Christians.

In the article “Several proofs have been given that establish that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit:”
  1. The New Testament Scriptures state this clearly.
  2. These Scripture’s context allows only the Holy Spirit to fulfill the role relegated to the Comforter.
  3. Jesus’ prediction of the Comforter coming to the disciples was fulfilled during Pentecost (see Acts Chapter 1).
  4. The early Church Fathers attest that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.
  5. Christian scholarship also demonstrates, through exhaustive study of the Greek texts, (ref. the Anchor Bible Theological Dictionary and other works) that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.
(note - the Anchor Bible Dictionary is highlighted as it is sometimes quoted out of context in Islamic tracts to show that the promised paraclete is just a man. The article puts the quotes back in context)
 
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Justice2006:
I am afraid that the debunkation you are referring to makes no sense.
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I beg to differ. What to tell us why it makes no sense?
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Justice2006:
There are many indications about Islam and the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Judeo-Christian scriptures even after they were either lost or destroyed and re-written out of oral tradition and got corrupted.
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Anything solid or just some hazy re-interpretations?
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Justice2006:
And there are many prophecies in other major religious books as well, about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

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I think we can safely say those sorts of Islamist polemics are not only chauvinistic, insensitive, disreputable, dishonest and also downright silly.

Perhaps we’ll take this discussion some other time. For the time being, if you have anything to share about the issues raised in this thread, i.e. the Song of Solomon 5:16 and paracletus then I would be very interested in learning from you.

Ciubate,
Cid
 
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asteroid:
If anyone’s has got confused about the paraclete, here’s a worthwhile article - it’s long and goes into great depth.

answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/comforter.htm

Mr. asteroid,

But unfortunately answering-islam website is a deceptive christian missionary site meant for ignorants. None of this site’s arguments are based on truth.

Try an another website which is a counter to what you are referring:

answering-christianity.com/ac4.htm#links

And I am referring this counter-site to you **only because ** you dare to refer me/others your deceptive christian site.
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What is happening Mr Justice2006 bro? What’s this libelling of answering-islam? Is that going to advance your arguments? I think not.

Hope this helps.

Chau,
Rodrigo
 
Rodrigo Bivar:
What is happening Mr Justice2006 bro? What’s this libelling of answering-islam? Is that going to advance your arguments? I think not
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You mean if a Christian referrs a deceptive missionary site such as answering-islam, is going to advance his or your arguments but if me or someone else referred a counter-reasonable website to you, it is not going to move ahead my arguments?

I think it is atleast going to diffuse the lies spread by your christian missionary deceptive site.

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Ahhh but you misunderstand me, Mr Justice2006. It is perfectly acceptable given the char-limits on this forum to refer to a reference site. But to merely malign and dismiss that site purely on the basis of some unsubstantiated opinion does not progress the discussion along. Let me clarify with an example:

Person A: The word Paracletus proves Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible.

Person B. No, it doesn’t. Here is the evidence… and the reference.

Person C: Your reference sucks because I say it’s a deceptive missionary site.

Rodrigo: How about actually proving that the site is deceptive? How about examining the evidence provided by Person B? Just dismissing the evidence in totality without any counter-evidence does not progress the discussion. It is merely an ad hominem fallacy.

What can I say? Except that Person C has made an unsubstantiated slander against the reference site?

Hope this helps,

Chau,
Rodrigo
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. asteroid,

But unfortunately answering-islam website is a deceptive christian missionary site meant for ignorants. None of this site’s arguments are based on truth.

Try an another website which is a counter to what you are referring:

answering-christianity.com/ac4.htm#links

And I am referring this counter-site to you **only because **you dare to refer me/others your deceptive christian site.
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According to Muslims any site that disagrees with the tenets of Islam is deceptive! It’s the teachings of Islam that are deceptive and false!. Why don’t you prove to us the validity of your prophet’s claims? And I mean real proof, not the recruitment manuals that Gurrato uses every time. You Muslims keep coming to this site with your triumphalistic, arrogant remarks and venomous attacks on our faith! It’s easier for you to attack us than to provide proof for your dubious claims.

Well, we have all the proof we need to prove our beliefs. We don’t have to attack Islam or any other religion to feel better about ours as Muslims seem to do. Your problem is that your sole “proof” consists of these words, "because Mohammed said so.

Can you prove your beliefs without attacking ours?

Vickie
 
I see Christians are groups, the honest ones at least with themselves obviously will convert to Islam,

The other one who reject Islam either:

1-filled in sins and they want to remain sinful, and they hope that Jesus pbuh will forgive them because he died for their sins according to them.

2-other the enemies of Islam like missionaries and other who have some worldly material advantages or looking for material advantages by slandering Islam.

3- other very sick and tired from practicing Islamic rites like pray fasting….and other rites

4- other unable to understand why Muhammad was raised among Arab if he among them might they accept him.

5 –other who has been deceived by ant-Muslims.

6- other still seeking the truth, may God guide them to the truth Amen.

Guess in which group you are?

Peace.
 
originally posted by gurrato alaien
I see Christians are groups, the honest ones at least with themselves obviously will convert to Islam,
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And we certainly know what happens to the ‘dishonest’ Christians who refuse to convert to this heresy and stay on the side of the One True God Almighty. (pick up a newspaper any day of the week)
 
gurrato alaien:
I see Christians are groups, the honest ones at least with themselves obviously will convert to Islam,

The other one who reject Islam either:

1-filled in sins and they want to remain sinful, and they hope that Jesus pbuh will forgive them because he died for their sins according to them.

2-other the enemies of Islam like missionaries and other who have some worldly material advantages or looking for material advantages by slandering Islam.

3- other very sick and tired from practicing Islamic rites like pray fasting….and other rites

4- other unable to understand why Muhammad was raised among Arab if he among them might they accept him.

5 –other who has been deceived by ant-Muslims.

6- other still seeking the truth, may God guide them to the truth Amen.

Guess in which group you are?

Peace.
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I like to believe I am in #6 as I, God willing, will always seek His truth, not the truth of man.

May God bless us all and the Holy Spirit guide us to God’s truth!
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. asteroid,

But unfortunately answering-islam website is a deceptive christian missionary site meant for ignorants. None of this site’s arguments are based on truth.

Try an another website which is a counter to what you are referring:

answering-christianity.com/ac4.htm#links

And I am referring this counter-site to you **only because **you dare to refer me/others your deceptive christian site.
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Ok, I did “dare”. Here’s something not from a website.

The website you point to seems to claim that the Christian scriptures are very corrupt. So why would it matter to you if they refer to Mohammed? Why would you make such a fuss saying “this very corrupt thing is about Mohammed?”

Consider these characteristics of the paraclete, all taken from the New Testament - verses in which Islam would say Mohammed is referred to as the paraclete. You can reject these Scriptures but that would mean that you believe something that is false is referring to Mohammed. Which would be an odd belief.
  1. John 14 explicitly calls the paraclete “the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father, in the name of Jesus”. (v26)
Mohammed is NOT the Holy Spirit.
  1. Mohammed was not, according to Islam, sent by THE FATHER, in the NAME OF JESUS.
John 14 explicitly states that the paraclete will “be in you” (the apostles and Christians) (v17)

Mohammed has never been IN anyone.
  1. John 14 explicitly states that the paraclete will be with us, ABIDING with us FOREVER. (v16)
The website you linked to says that the Quran will abide with us forever. However, it is Mohammed that you say is the Paraclete, the man not the book.

Mohammed is not with us now. The Holy Spirit IS with us now. So which one fulfills the words of Christ?
  1. John 14 explicitly states that the apostles know the paraclete because “he lives with you and will be in you”. (v17)
Mohammed was not even born when the apostles were alive. So they could hardly have known him. He certainly didn’t live with them at any time in any form. And he never indwelt them.
  1. The words of Jesus were fulfilled explicitly at the first Pentecost (Acts Chapter 2) when the Holy Spirit, the paraclete, was sent to the apostles.
Mohammed was never sent to these people.

There are plenty more points that could be made from the relevant scriptures. But unless you can show me that Mohammed was sent to the apostles at Pentecost, indwells Christians, was sent in the name of Jesus, by the Father (of God the Son), and that Mohammed is still here today, you will have a hard job making any case at all for saying that it is Mohammed who is referred to in the verses.

Now, all I’ve done is said what the Scriptures explicitly say. You have a choice.

You could accept that the Scriptures say what they say, and mean what they mean. In which case your claim falls flat.

Or you can turn round and say that the Scriptures are wrong. But if you choose the latter point, it would make as nonsense you trying to claim that these Scriptures refer to Mohammed.

Or you could show me that Mohammed is present with us today and was present to the apostles, indwelling them nearly 2000 years ago, and is still indwelling people today, being sent in Jesus name, indeed being sent BY Jesus (Jn16:7).

You could also show me how Mohammed brings glory to Jesus. Does he do give Jesus the glory spoken of in Scripture, in Philippians. Jesus is given “the name above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” You could show me how Mohammed gives Jesus this sort of glory. Did Mohammed say that Jesus has the name above every name. Did Mohammed bow his knee to Jesus. Do you?
 
gurrato alaien:
Here something like bomb:

The Aramaic Bible mentions “Muhammad” as the next Prophet of GOD Almighty

That “Paraklytos” is actually “Muhammad” in Aramaic - the mother tongue’ of Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h).

Follow me as we trace the Biblical history of this Greek word “Paraclete”. Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read “Periklytos” and “Paraklytos”, which is the name for “Muhammad” in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean “Praised” or “Celebrate,” the meaning and character of the man “Muhammad.” (1 Jesus in The Qur’an, One World Publications, (c) Geoffrey Parrinder 1965, 1995, ISBN 1-85168-094-2. Knowing this, there is a need for us to study the life of Prophet Muhammad in depth to see if it all stands up. Surprisingly it does.
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From the website you point to (answering-christianity):

Jesus in the Greek Bible used the Greek word “Periklytos” which means the admirable or glorified one. He called that predicted human prophet “Periklytos”. This word corresponds exactly to the Arabic word “Muhammad” which also means the “admired one” or “glorified one.” In other words, “Periklytos” is “Muhammad” in Greek.

There’s just one problem with this. The Greek is παράκλητος parakle¯tos

Those of you with Greek fonts should be able to read that in Greek as well as English (I hope).

“Periklytos” is a different word. There are no manuscripts whatsoever in existence to suggest that such a word was ever in John’s Gospel.

You used the word “periklytos” too and claimed that the word was originally that one. I have a challenge for you. PROVE IT. Please use the greatest tools of textual criticism. Show us ONE ancient manuscript that uses that word rather than parakletos (or variant transliteration).

There are over 70 ancient manuscripts of these verses extant. Were they Arabic or Hebrew manuscripts you might have a point - the vowels would not be written so either word could be used. But in Greek the vowels are written so there is no possibility for confusion.

So I ask you to give me some actual verifiable evidence that the Greek should be periklytos rather than parakletos. I ask, in the certain knowledge that you cannot give me such evidence as no such manuscripts exist.

Your use of this word is based on no more than wishful thinking.

Parakletos, the actual word in the New Testament, is derived from the root words “para” (meaning alongside or beside) and “kaleo” (meaning to invite, call, or summon). Combined they suggest someone called to one’s aid, to exhort, to comfort, encourage.

This word does not mean “the admirable or glorified one”. It means an intercessor, counsellor, comforter, consoler.

So what the site, and you are trying to say is that the name “Muhammad” in Greek means something different to a word found in the Gospel of John, but means the same as a word not found in the Gospel of John.

I don’t think this is just cause for anyone to convert to Islam.
 
gurrato alaien:
I see Christians are groups, the honest ones at least with themselves obviously will convert to Islam,

The other one who reject Islam either:

1-filled in sins and they want to remain sinful, and they hope that Jesus pbuh will forgive them because he died for their sins according to them.

2-other the enemies of Islam like missionaries and other who have some worldly material advantages or looking for material advantages by slandering Islam.

3- other very sick and tired from practicing Islamic rites like pray fasting….and other rites

4- other unable to understand why Muhammad was raised among Arab if he among them might they accept him.

5 –other who has been deceived by ant-Muslims.

6- other still seeking the truth, may God guide them to the truth Amen.

Guess in which group you are?

Peace.
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Gurrato, where do you get this stuff?😃

No real Christian would ever strip Jesus of his divinity and embrace Islam!

Vickie
 
Could I add my reason? woud be #7 : Because I know the ‘angel’ that muhammad encountered was a devil thus he is a false prophet. Jesus warned us about it.

So it is hard for me to be a muslima, not now, not later, not in the next life, not at all.

BTW gurrato… NICE TRY!!! 😃 😃
 
Cyber Knight:
Could I add my reason? woud be #7 : Because I know the ‘angel’ that muhammad encountered was a devil thus he is a false prophet. Jesus warned us about it.

So it is hard for me to be a muslima, not now, not later, not in the next life, not at all.

BTW gurrato… NICE TRY!!! 😃 😃
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Hi Cyber Knight! I choose #7 as well! Great post!

Vickie
 
Salaam Cyber Knight;
Cyber Knight:
So it is hard for me to be a muslima.
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All the time I assumed you are a guy! Yet another bad assumption.

Joseph.
 
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