For those of you who converted to Catholicism from Orthodoxy

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I am interested in hearing from those of you who have moved into communion with Rome from the Orthodox faiths.

Was there an “aha!” moment?

What patristic evidence do you think makes the best case for Petrine Supremacy and Infallibility?
 
Saint Michael, the archangel, defend us in battle, be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil, may God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do you, O’ Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God thrust into Hell Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world for the ruin of souls.

Amen.



Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Amen.



Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

 
I was a convert to Orthodoxy from a protestant faith many years ago, and have been Catholic for 4 years.

There was no ‘aha’ moment for me. Simply, I had to move to a rural area where there was no Orthodox Church. I could not afford to travel the distance to visit an Orthodox parish, even once a year, and reached a point where I could not bear being separated from the Holy Mysteries any longer. I visited a Catholic Church for a while, hoping just being in a “classical” christian environment would be enough; it was not. I had discussions with the priest about my situation, and with our Bishop on one of his visits. They told me that when I was ready, I would know, and that I was free to approach the Cup and receive at any time. One day I did. Simple as that. Bells didn’t ring, no heavenly choir sang, and the gates of Constantinople did not come crashing down upon The Phenar. But peace entered my heart, and that is more than enough.

To me - and it took a while to get to this place - the issues of Petrine Supremacy and Infallibility are overblown and misunderstood in the Orthodox East, and overly emphasized in the West. Batting the best evidence back and forth does little to foster the bonds of love that should exist between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

I still miss the Divine Liturgy, Byzantine chant, and icons. But all is well with my soul.
 
the issues of Petrine Supremacy and Infallibility are overblown and misunderstood in the Orthodox East, and overly emphasized in the West. Batting the best evidence back and forth does little to foster the bonds of love that should exist between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

I still miss the Divine Liturgy, Byzantine chant, and icons. But all is well with my soul.
I was an Eastern Orthodox catechumen for six months after a year of inquiry and it nearly did me in spiritually. It did teach me a lot about the ancient church (btw, its the same church) and I came to the same conclusion as Iconodule about ‘issues’ on both sides. The problem lies with politics and egos. If you drop that, us pions in the pews would do just fine. I could not receive communion in an Orthodox church or approach the chalice for a blessing. I was nothing. At least the Catholics are further along in their spiritual approach of allowing Orthodox to approach the chalice upon examination and confessing the faith.

I am in an Eastern Catholic parish, and I am welcomed at Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy. So my soul is in repair mode.
 
Thank you, those who have shared thus far.

A lot of what you have said resonates with me. I have gotten to the point where I don’t find either Roman Catholicism’s or Eastern Orthodoxy’s arguments pertaining to the position of Rome in the Church to be convincing. I think Rome often sees the Pope’s power as to great, but Orthodoxy is often unwilling to admit that there was a real authority held by the Pope in the early Church. I am actually in a weird position where I feel more spiritually and emotionally drawn to Rome, but intellectually drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy.

I am flirting more and more with Byzantine Catholicism, but there are no parishes within 500 miles of where I live. The next best thing is a Maronite parish that is 100 miles from where I live. Does anyone know how I would go about becoming a Byzantine Catholic in my situation? Would I go to an Orthodox parish to fulfill my Sunday obligation?
 
Maybe there’s something I’m not understanding about the situation, but why would that stuff about “days of obligation” matter if you aren’t actually a baptized Eastern Orthodox Christian? Your info says “Orthodox Catechumen”, so am I wrong in thinking that you could just as easily stop going to your local Eastern Orthodox Church and start going to your local Roman one – maybe while explaining your situation to the local RC priest so that they don’t stick you in Latin confirmation/RCIA classes or whatever? Back when I was still a Latin and had not discovered Orthodoxy but was clearly drawn to Syriac spirituality (looking back on it, it’s surprising it took me three years to actually make the switch to Oriental Orthodoxy, but anyway…), it was a Latin (Dominican) priest who helped me while in-between spiritual homes by sending me information on the Chaldean/East Syriac church, readings on and prayers by St. Ephrem, etc. There is a stereotype (unfortunately based in reality in a lot of cases, from what RC friends tell me) that RC priests are ignorant of Eastern Catholicism, but I would think that since you are looking into the largest of Rome’s “Eastern Rites”, it would be a relatively simple matter to explain without having to get into details that don’t even pertain to you yet (this stuff about ‘obligations’): You thought you wanted to be EO, now you think you want to be Byzantine Catholic, but there are no Byzantine Catholic churches around you. What would Fr. Such-and-Such (the local Latin priest) recommend?

Why not ask about obligations only after they actually are obligations for you…
 
Thank you, those who have shared thus far.

A lot of what you have said resonates with me. I have gotten to the point where I don’t find either Roman Catholicism’s or Eastern Orthodoxy’s arguments pertaining to the position of Rome in the Church to be convincing. I think Rome often sees the Pope’s power as to great, but Orthodoxy is often unwilling to admit that there was a real authority held by the Pope in the early Church. I am actually in a weird position where I feel more spiritually and emotionally drawn to Rome, but intellectually drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy.

I am flirting more and more with Byzantine Catholicism, but there are no parishes within 500 miles of where I live. The next best thing is a Maronite parish that is 100 miles from where I live. Does anyone know how I would go about becoming a Byzantine Catholic in my situation? Would I go to an Orthodox parish to fulfill my Sunday obligation?
If you are an Orthodox catechumen, you are not yet Orthodox and may NOT receive the sacraments in an Orthodox church.

If you are Catholic, you don’t need to “become” Byzantine Catholic to attend an Eastern Rite Catholic parish and receive the sacraments. All 22 sui iuris Churches are in full communion with Rome.

If you are neither Catholic nor Orthodox you may not receive sacraments in either of those Churches and there is also no “obligation” to fulfill there.

There is some evidence in the canon law for Eastern Catholics that they may fulfill their Sunday “obligation” by attending an Orthodox parish, especially if there are NO Catholic parishes accessible. However…the Orthodox will not permit you to receive the sacraments, except in rare instances. You may, of course, make a Spiritual Communion, but you may not receive from the Chalice, etc.

Making “the best case for Petrine supremacy and infallibility” can be a little bit like opening a can of worms here :D. Maybe that explains the reply by pollylodges. 🙂 There are resources available on this web site and elsewhere that might help you with that.

Dzheremi’s reply above is also very worthy of your attention.

In Christ,
MinM
 
I’m not the target for this thread, as I have never been Orthodox, but I did study the various Orthodox traditions in coming into the Faith, and I am a member of a parish that has a significant percentage of Orthodox members.

From my perspective the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are one Tradition, and are indeed Spiritually in Communion, albeit a wounded one. For me it was not an “aha” moment of realization, but rather a lack of one that compelled me to be Catholic. While I do see the abuses that have occured in the name of Papal Primacy, and the abuses that continue in terms of ecclesiology within the Catholic Church, I never found a compelling argument against Communion with Rome. I found in pre-Schism writings a clear sense of some kind of Primacy for Rome, and no heresy that would obviate it. The abuses, while requiring remedy, were not a reason for schism in my view.

With that in mind, the Catholic Church is the one with formal Communion with Rome, and that is important in my perspective.

Peace and God bless!
 
I converted to Orthodoxy when I was 14. I actually converted because my mother hated Catholicism and wouldn’t let me convert. She didn’t know what Orthodoxy was, so I was able to be chrismated/confirmed and become as close as I could with the Catholic Church. The plan was to become Catholic when I got to college, which I did.

I loved the Eastern liturgy. It was my first real experience being a part of a parish. I attended the Orthodox Church for 5 years, a very significant portion of my life.

After joining the Catholic Church, I began to regret it. There was no Byzantine Church near me, and being used to the ancient Liturgy of the East, I didn’t feel at home in the Novus Ordo. I felt very lonely and even cut off from God. The priests’ sermons didn’t touch me as much (it felt like they were afraid to offend people from the pulpit.) I also didn’t approve of some of the customs going on in my city, liturgically, but I now know that they’re all valid.

I found my salvation - the traditional Latin mass. It’s everything I love about East and West put into one. I’m so happy, and not at all regretful of my conversion, though I’ll probably always identify with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which is the Church I belong to as a Catholic, coming from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC of USA).

More and more, I find reasons that I prefer the Catholic Church to the EOC. I’m happy to be home.
 
I converted to Orthodoxy when I was 14. I actually converted because my mother hated Catholicism and wouldn’t let me convert. She didn’t know what Orthodoxy was, so I was able to be chrismated/confirmed and become as close as I could with the Catholic Church. The plan was to become Catholic when I got to college, which I did.

I loved the Eastern liturgy. It was my first real experience being a part of a parish. I attended the Orthodox Church for 5 years, a very significant portion of my life.

After joining the Catholic Church, I began to regret it. There was no Byzantine Church near me, and being used to the ancient Liturgy of the East, I didn’t feel at home in the Novus Ordo. I felt very lonely and even cut off from God. The priests’ sermons didn’t touch me as much (it felt like they were afraid to offend people from the pulpit.) I also didn’t approve of some of the customs going on in my city, liturgically, but I now know that they’re all valid.

I found my salvation - the traditional Latin mass. It’s everything I love about East and West put into one. I’m so happy, and not at all regretful of my conversion, though I’ll probably always identify with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which is the Church I belong to as a Catholic, coming from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC of USA).

More and more, I find reasons that I prefer the Catholic Church to the EOC. I’m happy to be home.
What was missing for you in the UOC-USA that you wished to become UGCC?
 
What was missing for you in the UOC-USA that you wished to become UGCC?
I’ve always believed the Catholic Church to be THE Church, and was never able to shake it. I also love the traditional Latin mass, almost as much as I love Divine Liturgy. It’s not so much that something was missing, simply, I wanted to be Catholic.

There is no UGCC Church near me. Since I come from the UOC, I would fall into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, my corresponding Church. If I wanted to join the Roman Church, even though I joined at a Roman Church, I’d have to submit forms asking to change my rite.
 
I converted to Orthodoxy when I was 14. I actually converted because my mother hated Catholicism and wouldn’t let me convert. She didn’t know what Orthodoxy was, so I was able to be chrismated/confirmed and become as close as I could with the Catholic Church.

… I’m so happy, and not at all regretful of my conversion, though I’ll probably always identify with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which is the Church I belong to as a Catholic, coming from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC of USA).
If you came into Orthodoxy by chrismation then that means you were a validly baptized Christian already. So coming into the Catholic Church that would mean because of your baptism in a Western Ecclesial Community you are canonically a Latin Catholic.

Fr. George Gallaro wrote an article Church Ascription Upon Conversion a few years ago on the blog Your Word From the Wise. Fr. George is a professor of canon law and ecumenism at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary of Ss. Cyril and Methodius.
 
If you came into Orthodoxy by chrismation then that means you were a validly baptized Christian already. So coming into the Catholic Church that would mean because of your baptism in a Western Ecclesial Community you are canonically a Latin Catholic.

Fr. George Gallaro wrote an article Church Ascription Upon Conversion a few years ago on the blog Your Word From the Wise. Fr. George is a professor of canon law and ecumenism at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary of Ss. Cyril and Methodius.
Fascinating, thank you.

The formations director at my parish wasn’t sure what to do with me, so she contacted some canon lawyer who has published a book that she uses in formation. He said that, coming from the Orthodox Church, I would be considered a Catholic in the corresponding Catholic community. On my reception certificate, it even says that I was “brought into union with the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church.”

It doesn’t matter much to me, as for all intents and purposes I’m a Roman catholic. I just wasn’t sure how to identify.
 
Fascinating, thank you.

The formations director at my parish wasn’t sure what to do with me, so she contacted some canon lawyer who has published a book that she uses in formation. He said that, coming from the Orthodox Church, I would be considered a Catholic in the corresponding Catholic community. On my reception certificate, it even says that I was “brought into union with the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church.”

It doesn’t matter much to me, as for all intents and purposes I’m a Roman catholic. I just wasn’t sure how to identify.
Did they know you weren’t* baptized* Orthodox?

Our Latin Church Chancery contacts Eastern Catholic canon lawyers when questions come up involving the East. There are very few things where it really matters in which Church you are ascripted, holy orders being the main one.
 
Did they know you weren’t* baptized* Orthodox?

Our Latin Church Chancery contacts Eastern Catholic canon lawyers when questions come up involving the East. There are very few things where it really matters in which Church you are ascripted, holy orders being the main one.
Yes, I handed in my documents to them. I was baptized Presbyterian (definitely not Eastern!)

My diocese is pretty small, and I don’t think they have much experience with Eastern Christians joining the Church.
 
I found my salvation - the traditional Latin mass. It’s everything I love about East and West put into one…
Great that you found what works well for you. We often get visitors at my EC parish from the local EF parish. They bring their confirmation class to visit us every year. 🙂 Great group.

I’m comfortable going to local Orthodox Churches when my EC parish doesn’t have services or when for some other reason I cannot make the trek to my parish. Sometimes there is also a religious community or monastery closer than an EC parish, where the faithful are welcome to assist at Mass. That can be preferable for some people to the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite in many parishes. The Order of Preachers/Dominicans here have a Priory where they reverently celebrate Mass daily along with chanting the hours before Mass and the Magnificat after. I go to a daily Mass there several times a month at least. The local OCA priest has become close with those friars and he prays Vespers with them weekly, as well as joining in their social time. A subdeacon of the ROCOR likewise has a close relationship with the Dominicans in SF.
 
My view is that I did not “convert” from Greek Orthodox to Catholic. I am already a “catholic” Christian by virtue of my baptism and membership in the “one holy, catholic, and apostolic church” of which Catholics and Orthodox are equally a part. And so as truthseeker32 stated in the originating post, I “moved into communion” with the Catholic Church; I did not convert.

As for any “aha!” moment, I did not experience anything quite like that. I often put it this way: while my heart will always be “of the east” and will always treasure my Orthodox heritage, it has always had a beat “toward the west.”

So why did I “change my address” to the Catholic Church (Byzantine Catholic, to be more specific)? It’s important for me to point out that I love the Eastern (Orthodox) tradition and its spirituality, and I love my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. It, and they, have nurtured me in my faith and I shall never disparage them (why would I?).

That being said, I also love the Western (Catholic) tradition, and love my Catholic brothers and sisters. I am particularly moved by the witness of Pope Francis and the increasing emphasis on more bold evangelization. I am also impressed with the exceptionally positive changes taking place in so many Catholic churches.

And so, while I am blessed in my Eastern spirituality and at the same time am powerfully motivated to evangelization, my desire was to retain my Eastern spiritual tradition while also being in communion with the Western tradition (by which I mean in communion with the Roman Catholic Church). The logical conclusion for myself, following a great deal of reflection and prayer, was to enter the “house” of the Byzantine Catholic Church.

There was also a practical matter that informed my decision. As I said earlier, I love my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters, and will always cherish the Greek Orthodox Church. Having said that, it has been my experience that there is a pervasive “foreign-ness” (for lack of a better term) that continues to be exhibited in so many Greek Orthodox (and other Orthodox) communities, and which has had an unfortunate isolating effect. This, in my view, has been a hindrance to evangelization.

Where evangelization is concerned, sharing Christ in a particular socio-cultural framework can only be truly successful if the sharers can communicate in words and ways that are familiar to the hearers. In my view, the Orthodox tradition(s) here in America (God bless them!) tend to be very encapsulated and have a long way to go in learning how to effectively engage people “on the outside.” Conversely, I find that the Western tradition (i.e., Catholics) – which includes the Eastern churches in communion with it – is far more embracing, and is better suited to (and already far more successful in) the task of evangelization here in the United States.

There is also the big issue of ecumenism, i.e., the move toward reuniting Catholics and Orthodox in full Eucharistic communion. In my view, the Catholic Church has proven to be far more conciliatory and charitable than the Orthodox on this matter.

I am not blind to the divisive historical, theological, and ecclesial (and, yes, certainly political) issues that exist between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. But ultimately my objective is not to “sell” any particular tradition, per se, be it Eastern or Western; nor to “sell” the Church, for that matter. The Church is our Mother, which serves to nurture us for a singular purpose: to share the Good News of freedom in Christ. And my goal is to do just that in a way that is best understood – linguistically and culturally – by the people I encounter in my local community and in the broader society in which I live. So for myself, I discerned that I could best fulfill that goal as a Catholic.

Many thanks, and God bless.
 
Some of my views are very much like those expressed here by JayNektarios. I consider myself to have transitioned from Orthodoxy to Catholicism rather than to have converted. Even my Catholic priest refused to call mine a conversion. I, also, love Eastern Orthodoxy. When, mostly through reading and researching, I first approached Christianity ten or fifteen years ago, I encountered saints and thinkers from both east and west. However, I landed on Orthodoxy, having fallen in love with its liturgical chanting, and the hesychastic teachings.

That said, although I encountered some vitriolic anti-Catholic writing, I remained as an Orthodox fond of such thinkers as Thomas Merton and Thomas a’ Kempis, and drew inspiration from my earlier encounter with Catholic saints. My recent transition into Catholicism was due, I must admit, mostly to circumstances. I have only made it to two Orthodox services since I relocated last October. The nearest parish is a mission church with infrequent services (about one a month, most months), and is 1.5-2 hours away by car. I decided to begin attending the nearby Catholic services, and within a short amount of time, I felt in many ways more at home than I ever did for my six years as an Orthodox Christian.

In my experience, it may be practical to become an Orthodox convert in big cities, but as I have found, in rural Canada, it is not always so practical. Aside from travel times, I did encounter a good deal of cultural isolation at some of the churches I attended. Due to several relocations, I attended Korean, Greek, Russian, Ukranian, Antiochian, and “American” parishes. I found that there were two kinds of parishes, in my experience. The ethnocentric parishes (with signs that said things like: “Such and such Hellenic Centre and Greek Orthodox Church”), or convert churches. I was received kindly by some individuals in these churches, but by and large was made to feel as a strange kind of anomaly, even not welcome, in a few cases. I appreciated these churches more, in a way, because the older parishioners worshiped in such a natural, non-pretentious manner. They were true cradle Orthodox Christians, probably going back generations. Parishes where the priests and the majority of parishioners were converts often felt a little… inauthentic to me, at times. Technically, they weren’t, and I didn’t mean to judge anyone. But sometimes hearing middle class white Canadians try to sing like Arabs or Greeks, or seeing them dressing up like Russian monks and nuns, seemed a little forced to me at times, so I tended to go to the ethnic churches wherever possible.

Catholics, as JayNektarios pointed out, are generally more charitable towards the Orthodox than the other way around. I appreciate the rich theological history of the Catholic Church. And having been in both Eastern and Western traditions, I believe that each have their strengths. Evangelization is not a strength of the East; Orthodoxy is outright unapproachable at times, under certain circumstances. The East through its rigidity, however, has preserved much of infinite value in the way of liturgical and mystical emphasis and beauty. As a Catholic, I feel I can embrace and appreciate both East and West. I have the devout “cradle” Catholics to learn from, but it doesn’t feel like I am entering someone else’s house, but my/our house of worship. As I said above, I feel at home here. My Catholic parish has a wonderful priest and friendly and helpful parishioners, weekday Mass, and plenty of opportunity to grow spiritually. I love both traditions, but the Catholic Church is home for me.
 
I found that there were two kinds of parishes, in my experience. The ethnocentric parishes (with signs that said things like: “Such and such Hellenic Centre and Greek Orthodox Church”), or convert churches. I was received kindly by some individuals in these churches, but by and large was made to feel as a strange kind of anomaly, even not welcome, in a few cases. …] Parishes where the priests and the majority of parishioners were converts often felt a little… inauthentic to me, at times. Technically, they weren’t, and I didn’t mean to judge anyone. But sometimes hearing middle class white Canadians try to sing like Arabs or Greeks, or seeing them dressing up like Russian monks and nuns, seemed a little forced to me at times, so I tended to go to the ethnic churches wherever possible.
I’m amused to see that others saw the same thing. I always thought it was funny when Father insisted on doing one Vespers per month in Russian…but everyone was an American convert. (The only Ethnic people we got to come into the Church was on Pascha, and even then, they didn’t even stay for the whole service.) What always seemed inauthentic to me were our Greek festivals, with middle-class Anglo-American converts attempting folk music and spanikopita. 😉

To add to my ideas given previously in this thread - I find that as I attend the Traditional Latin Mass with Catholics who actually know their history, I’m given an increasingly warm welcome, and everyone is very interested in discussing with me the Byzantine Church I come from. In the Orthodox Church, there is rather an anti-west attitude, like the Latins are all monkeys in trees (a very un-Catholic idea). One of the things I love very much about Catholicism is that there is this attitude of coexistance within the Catholic Communion - it’s much more reminiscent of the universal Church, and one of the things I very much love about our Mother!

I also feel more comfort and affirmation about my heritage. In my Orthodox Church, there were the Greeks (three old ladies) and those who wanted to be Greek (everyone else). Though it was a member of the GOARCH, it was originally a Greek Catholic Church populated by Byzantine Catholics from Slovakia and surrounding lands (my great grandparents!) I’m of Lemko discent, a people who are traditionally Byzantine Catholic. Eastern Catholics had a bad reputation in my old parish - we didn’t talk about those Catholics.

I’m now very proud of my Lemko heritage, and am happy when I get to go to a Byzantine Church and meet other Catholics who eat cabbage and have silly last names. 🙂
 
I converted to the Latin Rite church from my Scottish Presbyterian roots at age 18, stayed in a few years, left after being disgusted with the Novus Ordo (sp?) guitar masses, and started attending a student OCF on campus. When I converted to Orthodoxy it was under the auspices of the ROCOR on the feast of the Tsar-Martyr Nicholas. Baptized in the ROCOR. Stayed there for a long time, but felt the draw to Rome on more or less intellectual grounds (and the awful ethno-centric orientation of the EO communion). I had to choose whether or not to worship as an Orthodox Christian or as a Latin rite Catholic. Thanks be to God, I found a Byzantine Rite parish, and re-entered the Catholic Church simply through Confession. Now, there is no Byzantine Rite parish for a thousand miles so I attend a liturgically abysmal Latin Rite parish.

Now, I freely admit that my journey may be atypical. Nowadays, I have an Iconostas in my home, with icons of western and Eastern saints, including the Passion-Bearer and Tsar-Martyr Nicholas and pray from both Greek Orthodox, Latin, and Grail Psalms.

At this point, given that the Holy Father and the Ecumenical Patriarch have concelebrated Liturgy I think the Re-Union is a fait accompli.
 
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