For those Protestants who believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture

[TimothyH]

Actually, it is.

They just don’t typically call the reappearing of Christ [his Second Coming], as the Rapture. The term rapture is preferred by the Protestants. And Catholics particularily reject the Pre-Trib, secret rapture of the Christians … as proposed by Darby & promoted in the LEFT BEHIND books, by Hal Lindsey.

Paul is very clear on the Rapture event the ‘catching up’ ] of the Dead in Christ, & those still alive, to meet Christ at his reappearing. Catholic do accept this endtime teaching in scripture.

I would like to ask you to please stop calling it the rapture.

Doing so runs the risk of giving the the wrong idea to many Catholics who are not strong in the faith. Using terms so closely associated with false Evangelical doctrines runs the very real risk of giving the perception that Catholic doctrine is equivalent to Evangelical doctrine and that all Churches are really the same, that your choice of Church comes down to worship style. It’s hard enough competing with Churches with coffee bars, light shows and the pastor’s wife wearing a t-shirt two sizes too tight. These Churches teach that Jesus is your friend, that he loves you just the way you are, and that religion only want’s to condemn you and tell you what to do.

I have lost several friends who formerly did not go to Church to the Baptists and non-denominational Churches, some of them were former Catholics or raised in Catholic homes up north. My friend was going through a hard divorce, and was being led to Christ, and he was sucked up into a Baptist Church. He now tells me that all Churches are the same and that it doesn’t matter where you go as long as you are “Being fed.” Say what you want about the poor state of catechesis, but the reality is that Catholics calling the end of time “The Rapture” is to create a false equality between Churches.

People are being torn away from the sacraments and the true teaching of Christ by all this Evangelical nonsense. The last thing we need is the appearance of agreeing with something as rediculous as the Evangelical doctrine of the rapture in all of it’s absurd forms.

I’m asking you to please stop calling it the rapture.

-Tim-

 

[hn160]

These are the four views of the End-Times:

 

[PastorVW]

Since there was much written pre-1800’s on the rapture hypothesis, please provide us with some links so we can be informed. Thanks

This evangelical minister would also like to see any significant discussion of a “pre-tribulation rapture” prior to 1800, by ANY THEOLOGIAN - Catholic or Protestant.

I accept the Bible as the ultimate authority which all things must be judged - however, I think any “newly discovered” doctrine that was not even a minority view prior to being advanced in recent years must be considered highly suspicious. Are we to believe that somehow this “new truth” was missed by every Biblical scholar in the history of the church? That position is not reasonable.

The late Dr. Walter Martin used to say that every heresy found in the world today was known in the first three centuries of the church. I think the same is true for sound doctrine - if it was not seen in the first 300-400 years and at least discussed by Biblical scholars, I highly doubt that it is really based upon the Bible.

I think we are going to have a very long wait…

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Actually, it is.

They just don’t typically call the reappearing of Christ [his Second Coming], as the Rapture. The term rapture is preferred by the Protestants. And Catholics particularily reject the Pre-Trib, secret rapture of the Christians … as proposed by Darby & promoted in the LEFT BEHIND books, by Hal Lindsey.

Paul is very clear on the Rapture event the ‘catching up’ ] of the Dead in Christ, & those still alive, to meet Christ at his reappearing. Catholic do accept this endtime teaching in scripture.

Please don’t say that you are using a fiction series to support your argument

 

[brb3]

Please don’t say that you are using a fiction series to support your argument

Not at all. I make the point that the Left Behind books are fully rejected by the Catholic Church. They are ludicrous, sensational, and non-biblical.

 

[brb3]

I would like to ask you to please stop calling it the rapture.

Doing so runs the risk of giving the the wrong idea to many Catholics who are not strong in the faith.

This is the Non-Catholic forum. The word Rapture is common, acceptible terminology for Protestants.

Catholics commonly speak of the ‘reappearing’ of the Lord in the Heavens above, and the dead & living faithful being ‘caught up’ to Heaven at the last Trump. Straight out of Paul’s Epistle — 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Tell me PastorVW … is Rapture an acceptible translation of Paul’s wording ?

 

[JustaServant]

The ‘rapture’ was invented by a Brethren preacher in the 19th century after hearing the ‘prophecies’ of a woman who had mental health issues.
Many evangelicals today are rightly abandoning the teaching.
You’re behind the times brb.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

the rapture doctrine is popular amongst the laity in many evangelical churches, but conservative Protestant seminaries like Westminster, or Lutheran schools, etc. NEVER taught it. It is popular in non denominational churches and baptist churches though. But it would be hard to find it in conservative Presbyterian/Reformed, Lutheran or Episcopalian/Anglican churches. I reject it. I once believed it but going to Westminster in the 70s convinced me how wrong it is.

 

[gcharles]

Actually, it is.

They just don’t typically call the reappearing of Christ [his Second Coming], as the Rapture. The term rapture is preferred by the Protestants. And Catholics particularily reject the Pre-Trib, secret rapture of the Christians … as proposed by Darby & promoted in the LEFT BEHIND books, by Hal Lindsey.

Paul is very clear on the Rapture event the ‘catching up’ ] of the Dead in Christ, & those still alive, to meet Christ at his reappearing. Catholic do accept this endtime teaching in scripture.

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.") Recognize that those whose name is written in the book of life will be rescued by Michael the Archangel. Remeber that Michael is very powerful and was the one who threw Satan out of heaven. Incidentally this relates to the scripture in Thessalonians when the Lord will appear in the sky and the voice of the archangel (Michael) will announce the coming of the groom being that Michaeel is in the wedding party as is the Jewish custom of the betrothal. Inorder for the rapture and the second coming there would have to be a time of distress that has never been seen before. Also with the technology of today there would be no one to rapture ezcept the fullness of the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Luvtosew]

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. **2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.") **Recognize that those whose name is written in the book of life will be rescued by Michael the Archangel. Remeber that Michael is very powerful and was the one who threw Satan out of heaven. Incidentally this relates to the scripture in Thessalonians when the Lord will appear in the sky and the voice of the archangel (Michael) will announce the coming of the groom being that Michaeel is in the wedding party as is the Jewish custom of the betrothal. Inorder for the rapture and the second coming there would have to be a time of distress that has never been seen before. Also with the technology of today there would be no one to rapture ezcept the fullness of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Well that pretty much says that when we die we just stay buried until judgement day and then we are judged, does it not? am I reading it wrong.
Also that would dismiss purgatory would it not? the part I made into bold print.

 

[GEddie]

Well that pretty much says that when we die we just stay buried until judgement day and then we are judged, does it not? am I reading it wrong.
Also that would dismiss purgatory would it not? the part I made into bold print.

Not really, in either case.

Sleeping refers to the physical human bodies, which are the only part of us that CAN sleep, and dead bodies look a lot like sleeping bodies.

It says nothing about what the soul/psyche, etc, might be doing in another form in the meantime. Even in normal sleep, the human mind is far from inactive.

ICXC NIKA

 

[brb3]

The ‘rapture’ was invented by a Brethren preacher in the 19th century after hearing the ‘prophecies’ of a woman who had mental health issues.
Many evangelicals today are rightly abandoning the teaching.
You’re behind the times brb.

Nope … Christ in Matthew 24, teaches the Rapture of the Church, [the angels gathering of the Elect from the 4 corners(winds) of the Earth, at the appearing of the Son of Man in the heaven above, at the Trump calling].

The Angels will ‘catch up’ / ‘take up’ the elect … to heaven. Paul taught in Thessalonians Chp. 4 … using the word RAPIEMUR, which means to ‘catch up’ , to ‘take up’, to ‘snatch up’. Paul is describing same event that Christ did. The taking up of the Church, at the end of the age.

And, we know it’s a post-Trib event … so says Christ in Matt Chp. 24:29

‘Behind the times’ … Ha ! JustaServant … Do you know more than Christ & Paul ?

 

[saritan]

e a Christian

Well that pretty much says that when we die we just stay buried until judgement day and then we are judged, does it not? am I reading it wrong.
Also that would dismiss purgatory would it not? the part I made into bold print.[/QUOTURRE]

Summarizing the belief when you are a Christian, Scripture in the Bible says, “to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord”. To me, that means our bodies stay in the grave and our spirts are in Heaven. The bodies will ascend at the 2nd coming.

QUOTE=aschaefer;9067848]Good point!!

M

 

[Lochias]

Well that pretty much says that when we die we just stay buried until judgement day and then we are judged, does it not? am I reading it wrong.
Also that would dismiss purgatory would it not? the part I made into bold print.

Nope, that’s just taking one part of the Bible out of context.

 

[gcharles]

Well that pretty much says that when we die we just stay buried until judgement day and then we are judged, does it not? am I reading it wrong.
Also that would dismiss purgatory would it not? the part I made into bold print.

Not unless you’re a 7th Day Adventist. The bible is the word of God. We as Christian Catholics believe the spirit leaves the body at the time of death. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The dead body appears to be dead but the spirit is not.

 

[gcharles]

Nope … Christ in Matthew 24, teaches the Rapture of the Church, [the angels gathering of the Elect from the 4 corners(winds) of the Earth, at the appearing of the Son of Man in the heaven above, at the Trump calling].

The Angels will ‘catch up’ / ‘take up’ the elect … to heaven. Paul taught in Thessalonians Chp. 4 … using the word RAPIEMUR, which means to ‘catch up’ , to ‘take up’, to ‘snatch up’. Paul is describing same event that Christ did. The taking up of the Church, at the end of the age.

And, we know it’s a post-Trib event … so says Christ in Matt Chp. 24:29

‘Behind the times’ … Ha ! JustaServant … Do you know more than Christ & Paul ?

So then there will be wrath after the 2nd coming. The bible shows Michael the Archangel rescues us from the terrible wrath. Initially the Catholic church did not disagree with the rapture. There has already been two raptures and that is the word the priest used teaching a class.

 

[gcharles]

Well I’ll refuse to take my mark.

According to George Spangler, heathen top UN member states you must take an oath to Satan to get the mark.of the beast. If you take the mark (bank chip) you can buy and trade. If you take it you are condemned to hell. If you don’t take it you will be killed. At the 2nd coing there will be no Christians to rapture. Satan hates you and will have you killed. Actually in the Catholic encyclopedia there is evidence that the next pope will be the last pope. Also the fig tree has ripened.The mark of the beast appears to happen after the miraculous recovery of the antichrist after being killed. Unfortunately when he miraculously comes back to life Satan will be in the body.and that’s when the mark of the beast if offered.

 

[GEddie]

According to George Spangler, heathen top UN member states you must take an oath to Satan to get the mark.of the beast. If you take the mark (bank chip) you can buy and trade. If you take it you are condemned to hell. If you don’t take it you will be killed. At the 2nd coing there will be no Christians to rapture. Satan hates you and will have you killed. Actually in the Catholic encyclopedia there is evidence that the next pope will be the last pope. Also the fig tree has ripened.The mark of the beast appears to happen after the miraculous recovery of the antichrist after being killed. Unfortunately when he miraculously comes back to life Satan will be in the body.and that’s when the mark of the beast if offered.

The Catholic encyclopedia, hey?

Please post a link or an excerpt, by all means!?!

Is this Saint Malachi related?

ICXC NIKA

 

[JustaServant]

‘Behind the times’ … Ha ! JustaServant … Do you know more than Christ & Paul ?

I certainly know more than a heretical 19th century preacher and the delusions of the mad woman in his church.

 

[brb3]

I certainly know more than a heretical 19th century preacher and the delusions of the mad woman in his church.

OK … you trump Darby and his church lady.

But, we both know that Christ & Paul teach a Rapture is coming @ the end of the age … and it wasn’t fulfilled in 70AD, when Jerusalem went thru its great Trib and was destroyed.