For those Protestants who believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture

[Sojourner61]

Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib. It doesn’t really matter. The heart of the matter is to be firmly grounded in Christ, trusting Him to see you through whatever the accuser of the brethren throws at us. This life is passing-the one we strive to attain is eternal. Martyrdom is not a pleasant death to be sure, but if that’s what it takes, sign me up! In all my years as a Protestant, the subject I heard argued the most was ‘when is the catching away going to happen?’ This subject generates arguments so heated that I believe churches have split over it. My solution is: Be ready.

 

[Luvtosew]

Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib. It doesn’t really matter. The heart of the matter is to be firmly grounded in Christ, trusting Him to see you through whatever the accuser of the brethren throws at us. This life is passing-the one we strive to attain is eternal. Martyrdom is not a pleasant death to be sure, but if that’s what it takes, sign me up! In all my years as a Protestant, the subject I heard argued the most was ‘when is the catching away going to happen?’ This subject generates arguments so heated that I believe churches have split over it. My solution is: Be ready.

How true, we must be ready, and not worry about the future. all any of us have is now.

 

[GEddie]

I AM A PAN-TRIBULATIONIST

(It will all pan out in the end.)

 

[Sojourner61]

I AM A PAN-TRIBULATIONIST

(It will all pan out in the end.)

Amen, and Amen! Besides, we already know Who wins!

 

[TimothyH]

brb, I would ask you to reconsider refernece to the end times and final judgement as rapture, if not here on this thread then at least when in conversation with those outside of these forums, especially with Catholics who are weak in the faith.

I would be very sad to think that someone heard the word “rapture” from a Catholic and concluded that Evangelical teaching on the end times was equivalent to Catholic teaching on the end times and that Evangelical theology was in some way equivalent to Catholic theology in general.

A translation may be “rapture”, I really don’t know, but there are enough people leaving the Church and I fear the word may legitimize Evangelical beliefs more than we are aware.

Please reconsider.

-Tim-

 

[robwar]

First, please do not miss the fact that I am a Free Methodist Minister. I cannot speak officially for my own church, much less the Catholic Church

This whole matter is very complex and much more involved then one might think. I reject the idea of a “pre-tribulation” rapture, first of all because it results in many Biblical problems that simply are not there is one accepts the traditional “post-tribulation” viewpoint. It would take more space than we have here to explain it all, but that is the bottom line.

Second, as a Wesleyan, I recognize the value of tradition (or the view of the church through the centuries) in matter not essential to salvation. Many views have been throughout the history of the church - but the “pre-tribulation rapture” was unheard of before 1830. Before then, it was not even a minority view. Furthermore, it began as a “revelation” given to a 13 year old girl. Only after this was a Scriptural case built for it. It is not reasonable to expect that no one would have seen this truth for the first 1800 years of the church.

Well said Pastorw,
actually some of the best critics of the rapture pre-trib are other Protestants and it is unfortunate that you are undercut by a number of books out there such as the left behind series, The Late Great Planet Earth Etc. Good luck and thanks for your post. You demonstrate very well the problem of para-church ministries that put out and teach whatever but have no accountability for what they teach.

Finally, I think it is significant that in my denomination - which does not take a specific position on the rapture - about 2/3 of the ministers I have met are “post-trib”, whie the vast majority of laypeople are “pre-trib”. This says a lot. The pre-tribulation rapture is basically “popular theology” that is mostly promoted in the Christian media. It is rejected by most Evangelical Clergy.

Anyway, that’s my .02 worth. Since this doctrine got started in Evangelical circles, I thought this might help./QUOTE

 

[sambos671]

From my understanding of Catholic Eschatology is that the Church holds to an Amillenial view.

 

[gcharles]

brb, I would ask you to reconsider refernece to the end times and final judgement as rapture, if not here on this thread then at least when in conversation with those outside of these forums, especially with Catholics who are weak in the faith.

I would be very sad to think that someone heard the word “rapture” from a Catholic and concluded that Evangelical teaching on the end times was equivalent to Catholic teaching on the end times and that Evangelical theology was in some way equivalent to Catholic theology in general.

A translation may be “rapture”, I really don’t know, but there are enough people leaving the Church and I fear the word may legitimize Evangelical beliefs more than we are aware.

Please reconsider.

I am far from weak in the faith. Who made up the word rapture? There is strong evidence it was Bishop Jerome. Have you ever written an article explaining the real presence of the Eucharist? I have. They then understand it. What have you done publicly to show your faith? Have you ever spread the gospel? I have. If you haven’t you are the one with weak faith. Incidentally if you want to read what I write go to www.faithwriters.com. Then click on find an author. Type in char then look for George Charles. The reason that Catholics leave for Jehovah Witnesses is because they don’t understand Jesus is god in the flesh. We need to do more than tell people because we said so.

-Tim-

 

[Ecoclimber]

Well there are several issues here and it is a very complex subject. The list is extensive but here are a few of the issues.

1. In the Gospels, the meaning of the parable on the virgins with their lamps.
2. You will not know the time of the Lord’s return. He will appear as a thief in the night. If He comes post trib. then you pretty much know when Christ will appear
3. Exegetical the Christians at Thessalonica thought they had missed the rapture and Paul was reassuring them that this was not the case. If Christ came at the end, then this question by simple deduction, wouldn’t have been ask of Paul
4. The last half of the tribulation period, God pours out his wrath on the unbelievers. Throughout the Bible, there is not one instance where God pours out his wrath on the righteous but always allows for an avenue of escape. Noak and the Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah. Wrath is meant for the unrighteous not the righteous.
5. John in Revelations representing the Church was caught up as a analogy of the Church being caught up. The Tribulation period starts after John’s presence in heaven.

These are just a few eschatological themes that are debated. Rapture was talked about throughout the Church age and not just by Darby in 1850.

 

[gcharles]

George Spangler is a demonic person. We should know as much about our enemy as possible. Satan has them convinced he can win. The bible says he is deceiving his followers. They are disapointed when the angel comes out of heaven comes and binds him. We must petition all our powers from above to watch over us. This is spiritual warfare.

 

[Marie_Gregg]

I’m content to look to the skies and watch for Jesus’ return. If He comes before the wrath of God is poured out onto the earth, great. If He comes in the middle, great. If He comes after all is said and done, great. I think we have to stand in the knowledge of His return, believing that it could come a moment from now or ages from now. It doesn’t matter when or how. It matters that it is.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Well, I look at it this way, how will it even be possible? Will people just randomly disappear? Sitting in class, and boom, you’re gone in a poof of smoke. Driving down the freeway and bam, theres a crash and you realize theres no driver.

How will he just take us away? I dont understand that. will it just be like dissapearing like an illusion or will our clothes be left behind, or will we literally just descend into the sky?

 

[Luvtosew]

Well, I look at it this way, how will it even be possible? Will people just randomly disappear? Sitting in class, and boom, you’re gone in a poof of smoke. Driving down the freeway and bam, theres a crash and you realize theres no driver.

How will he just take us away? I dont understand that. will it just be like dissapearing like an illusion or will our clothes be left behind, or will we literally just descend into the sky?/QUOTE

I imagine if it happens it will be like that, we’ll just be taken up probably with our clothes on, what a nightmare for those who aren’t,
in a jet and the pilot gets scooped up

 

[PastorVW]

Well said Pastorw,
actually some of the best critics of the rapture pre-trib are other Protestants and it is unfortunate that you are undercut by a number of books out there such as the left behind series, The Late Great Planet Earth Etc. Good luck and thanks for your post.

Thanks! What I find most ironic about the “Left Behind” books is the fact that they are about what they technically say won’t happen: The Church - the Body of Believers in Christ - going through the tribulation. They have to invent the idea that somehow an entirely new group of believers will arise - because it is abundantly clear from the Scriptures that the Church will go through the Tribulation.

Additionally, one might ask why this group of believers who supposedly will be “raptured” prior to the Tribultion is so privileged? From the founding of the Church until today, believers have been subject to persecution and tribulation - why should the generation living at the beginning of the Tribulation be so different?

As I said in my post, this is a complex issue - and I certainly do not have all the answers - but it seems clear to me that Christ will return only once, at the end of the Tribulation.

As someone else has said, ultimately I am - and I believe we all should be - Pan-Millennialists - because our faith should encourage us to believe that it will truly “all pan out in the end” because our Lord is in charge.

Until it happens, I will join Dr. Walter Martin in being a Post-tribulatist who hopes he is wrong

You demonstrate very well the problem of para-church ministries that put out and teach whatever but have no accountability for what they teach.

Actually, while some of this teaching comes from both denominations and para-church organizations, the vast majority comes from individual authors who are essentially accountable to no one but “God and themselves”. They are by no means all corrupt - in fact I believe that the overwhelming majority are sincere and moral Christians. However, some of the most well known would definitely NOT pass a background check for ordination in most, if not all, denominations - due to what in my denomination would be called “multiple moral failures”. This is not an ad hominem argument because such behavior calls into question their motive for writing. It suggests that they may be writing simply to sell books - not to build up the Body of Believers in Christ. This should cause us to examine very closely what they have written because the truth is often not pleasant and doesn’t always sell books well. IMHO a little time spent “Googling” any author - be they Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox - before buying their books - is time well spent.

Good teachers make themselves accountable to a church organization. Good para-church organizations have governing boards that are composed of a wide range of respected church members and clergy - not just the founder’s family. The ECFA organization requires this, and although they are focused on finances, not doctrine, if a para-church organization is financially accountable they are likely accountable in matters of faith doctrine and morals as well.

I am sure that at least some of these problems happen in the Catholic church too - the church cannot control what every Catholic writes in regards to religious matters. I, therefore, always try to evaluate only the official teaching of any organization - not the writings of one or two people.

 

[PastorVW]

They just don’t typically call the reappearing of Christ [his Second Coming], as the Rapture. The term rapture is preferred by the Protestants. And Catholics particularily reject the Pre-Trib, secret rapture of the Christians … as proposed by Darby & promoted in the LEFT BEHIND books, by Hal Lindsey.

Actually, while Hal Lindsey has written extensively on this topic, and does promote the “pre-trib” viewpoint, he did not write the “Left Behind” series. They were written by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. Without going into details, I am quite sure that these men would be offended to be confused with Mr. Lindsey. I just wanted to set the record straight.

Paul is very clear on the Rapture event the ‘catching up’ ] of the Dead in Christ, & those still alive, to meet Christ at his reappearing. Catholic do accept this endtime teaching in scripture.

As does the majority of the entire Christian Church and the vast majority of Evangelical Churches and Clergy. It is the historic position of the Christian church.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Just so everone is aware, not every Protestant believes in the preTrip Rapture. Some of the best books against this view are written by Protestant scholars. The seminary I attended in the 70s- Westminster Seminary in Phillie- was strongly amillenial and definietly NOT PreTrib.

 

[GEddie]

Well, I look at it this way, how will it even be possible? Will people just randomly disappear? Sitting in class, and boom, you’re gone in a poof of smoke. Driving down the freeway and bam, theres a crash and you realize theres no driver.

How will he just take us away? I dont understand that. will it just be like dissapearing like an illusion or will our clothes be left behind, or will we literally just descend into the sky?

Our bodies will transform. I imagine we will be like our LORD’s transfiguration, where we physically luminesce, and the material and external forms of our human bodies will renew and reform at the instant of leaping into Life Everlasting!

We do not just disappear, we remain solid bodies.

There would be no instances of pilotless planes and unmanned automobiles, because the world would be coming to an end at the same time. The Left Behind books were incorrect.

I hope we would leave the clothing behind but I don’t have scriptural evidence either way. ISTM that if our LORD could go into Heaven unclothed, HE could have us do the same.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PastorVW]

Just so everone is aware, not every Protestant believes in the preTrip Rapture. Some of the best books against this view are written by Protestant scholars. The seminary I attended in the 70s- Westminster Seminary in Phillie- was strongly amillenial and definietly NOT PreTrib.

I am also in that group that does not believe in a pre-trib rapture.

 

[gcharles]

Are we suppose to be raptured before the antichrist takes over?

If I say it’s at mid trib then I would be telling you the day of his coming. The beginning of the 7 year tribulation starts when the antichrist signs the peace treaty with Israel. Tribulation last seven years. Those years are 360 day years. Therefore at that point I would know exactly when the rapture will happen because it would be 360 x 3.5. If I say it’s at the 2nd coming then it would be 360 days x 7. I would kn ow the day. Jesus made it very clear thaqt no one but God the Father would know when that would be. The gathering happens at the time God the Father approves the prepared place for the church which is the bride. At the second coming Christ arrives at Mt. Zion not in the sky.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

All this talk of a future tribulation is nonsense. The whole church age has been filled with tribulation and persecution. I think there is clear indication that the Tribulation of Matthew 24 occurred in 70 AD. The only remaining event is the appearance of the Man of Sin and the Second Coming. And there is NO indication as to how long the Man of Sin will be around. Anything beyond the belief in the Return of our Lord I see as pure speculation and of NO value at all.But people want to think they are “in the know” instead of trusting the Lord and leaving up to Him