I
itinerant1
Guest
You stubbornly insist on your misinterpretation when you have to admit you are no authority in this matter. You have no scholarly credentials that enable you to pontificate on this subject of which you are only vaguely familiar, if even that.“Everything, therefore, is moved by something else. If, then, that by which it is moved, is also moved, this must be moved by something still different, and this, again, by something else. But this process cannot go on to infinity because there would not be any first mover, nor, because of this fact, anything else in motion, as the succeeding things would not move except because of what is moved by the first mover, just as a stick is not moved except through what is moved from the hand.”
So we are indeed going back in time, the furthest back we can go is to the origin of the big bang, what happened before that point is an unknown, and as i have been explaining to you, you cannot apply the laws of this universe to be fore that point.
You then said…
“Therefore it is necessary to go back to some first mover, which is itself moved by nothing—and this all men know as God.”
Which basically boils down to this… ‘i think something must have caused the universe, and not matter what that is i am going to call that thing god.’
So at this point i would ask that you define ‘god’ for if you are just going to say something caused the universe and no matter what it is i am calling it god, then i guess i must believe in the same god as you, for i too believe it is fair to assume the something caused our universe. However you have catholic as your religion, but god as you define it does not match in any way, shape, or form the god of the bible.
The term “first” can be used in several ways; chronological, logical, or ontological. The argument pertains to an ontological chain, a series of ontological dependencies; there is a hierarchy of dependency of one being upon another for motion, which can be viewed as concurrent or simultaneous. The argument in no sense entails or is limited to a chronological-sequential view of causality. The impossibility of an infinite series is primarily the impossibility of an infinitely extending hierarchy of dependencies existing at any point in time, and not necessarily back in time.
You have illicitly inserted “caused the universe” into your response. The argument only pertains to the cause of “motion”.
I did not say that this is an argument that proves the existence of God as conceived by Catholicism or the Biblical God. It’s an argument the demonstrates the necessity of an Unmoved Mover. You don’t have to call the Unmoved Mover “God” if you don’t want to. You can re-name it “AlbertBall’s Worst Nightmare” if you so choose.