For Those Who Are Skeptical About God's Existence

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More on the defunct theory of an Oscillating or Bouncing Universe.

It is just a variant of the Big Bang Theory except it totally disregards the law of entropy. In respect to that law the successive cycles of an oscillating universe must decrease in their energy peak; the period of oscillation must become ever more prolonged.

Those who like the Bounce Theory must have never watched a rubber ball any length of time as it keeps rebounding from the pavement. Y’all see now where this bouncing is headed? Flat-line.

Another problem concerns the mechanism which turns a contracting phase into an expanding phase. No study of the superdense state has provided a viable explanation.
 
More on the defunct theory of an Oscillating or Bouncing Universe.

It is just a variant of the Big Bang Theory except it totally disregards the law of entropy. In respect to that law the successive cycles of an oscillating universe must decrease in their energy peak; the period of oscillation must become ever more prolonged.

Those who like the Bounce Theory must have never watched a rubber ball any length of time as it keeps rebounding from the pavement. Y’all see now where this bouncing is headed? Flat-line.

Another problem concerns the mechanism which turns a contracting phase into an expanding phase. No study of the superdense state has provided a viable explanation.
Heck, let’s fill in this viable explanation in real fast. We can’t have a gap in thinking!
 
Go for it! Any fantasy will suffice for existential comfort in the universe.
I did not realize that you could be allowed to feel this way. Oh, wait up. Could you have been sarcastic here? Or did your really mean to say what you did? If so, is that the best argument you can bring to the table for intellectual discussion?
 
I did not realize that you could be allowed to feel this way. Oh, wait up. Could you have been sarcastic here? Or did your really mean to say what you did? If so, is that the best argument you can bring to the table for intellectual discussion?
Actually, I presented an argument from motion to that of an unmoved mover, God, but nobody in the thread understood it. Their responses were always irrelevant to the meaning of the argument, even though I had expounded on the meaning.

So, intellectual discussion was never seriously attempted by the skeptics in this thread. It appeared as if certain skeptics willfully* refused* to understand such arguments, a phenomenon I thought rather curious from a psychological point of view.
 
Actually, I presented an argument from motion to that of an unmoved mover, God, but nobody in the thread understood it. Their responses were always irrelevant to the meaning of the argument, even though I had expounded on the meaning.

So, intellectual discussion was never seriously attempted by the skeptics in this thread. It appeared as if certain skeptics willfully* refused* to understand such arguments, a phenomenon I thought rather curious from a psychological point of view.
I didn’t see the argument so leave me out of your psychoanalysis. 😛 But let me say up front that it’s pretty cheeky for man to claim that the natural world is unable to account for its own existence. We’re just taking our first baby steps in understanding the world in which we live. We have a long way to go before concluding that something is beyond the capability of nature and resorting to a supernautural explanation.
 
I didn’t see the argument so leave me out of your psychoanalysis. 😛 But let me say up front that it’s pretty cheeky for man to claim that the natural world is unable to account for its own existence. We’re just taking our first baby steps in understanding the world in which we live. We have a long way to go before concluding that something is beyond the capability of nature and resorting to a supernautural explanation.
Psychoanalysis aside, for now, do you know of any particular thing in nature that is responsible for its own existence, that is, its existence is not dependent on some antecedent cause or confluence of causes?
 
Previously in this thread, I presented demonstrations of the existence of God. Respondents to the demonstrations adamantly maintained several false assumptions about the meaning of the arguments, and thus their criticisms amounted to nothing more than straw man fallacies.

In his *Summa Theologica, *Thomas Aquinas presents five philosophical demonstrations of the existence of God. While the arguments do not, and are not intended as proofs for the existence of the personal God of the Judeo-Christian, they are more limited in that they demonstrate the existence of a supreme being who transcends the universe. And this is what we mean by “God”.

In addition, the legitimacy of arguments’ proofs are not contingent on whether the universe is conceived as finite or infinite. In fact, it must be kept in mind that the arguments make the philosophical presumption that the universe has always existed. That is, the demonstrations do not argue against the idea that the universe has not always existed. Hence, any attempted criticism of the arguments based on the assumption that the universe has always existed, or that matter and energy have always existed, will have most likely misunderstood Aquinas’ demonstrations from the outset. Hopefully, any new critics of the arguments will not commit that commonplace error.

Aquinas says,

"The existence of God can be proved in five ways.

“The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.”

I will use the following restatement of the foregoing argument from motion as follows:
  1. Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
  2. Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
  3. Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
  4. Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
  5. Therefore nothing can move itself.
  6. Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
  7. The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
  8. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
 
I didn’t see the argument so leave me out of your psychoanalysis. 😛 But let me say up front that it’s pretty cheeky for man to claim that the natural world is unable to account for its own existence. We’re just taking our first baby steps in understanding the world in which we live. We have a long way to go before concluding that something is beyond the capability of nature and resorting to a supernautural explanation.
Cheeky? :dts:

When you were a child you thought as a child. Now that you are an adult, it is time to think about the world as an adult.
 
I didn’t see the argument so leave me out of your psychoanalysis. 😛 But let me say up front that it’s pretty cheeky for man to claim that the natural world is unable to account for its own existence. We’re just taking our first baby steps in understanding the world in which we live. We have a long way to go before concluding that something is beyond the capability of nature and resorting to a supernautural explanation.
Agreed.
Psychoanalysis aside, for now
This should be interesting… 🍿
When you were a child you thought as a child. Now that you are an adult, it is time to think about the world as an adult.
When I was a child, I believed in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and several other mythical entities. Lets really grow up, and reject all the myths and superstitions. 👍
 
When I was a child, I believed in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and several other mythical entities. Lets really grow up, and reject all the myths and superstitions. 👍
The predominant myth for modern man is metaphysical materialism.
 
When I was a child, I believed in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, and several other mythical entities. Lets really grow up, and reject all the myths and superstitions. 👍
God isn’t a myth. A myth is your typical Tooth Fairy or Bigfoot.
 
So says you. I happen to disagree.
And what exactly makes you dis-agree?

So says me? I think you mean “So says God Himself”. God has proven many times that He exists. Proof is everywhere. If you don’t think He exists, how about explaining the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima?
 
And what exactly makes you dis-agree?

So says me? I think you mean “So says God Himself”. God has proven many times that He exists. Proof is everywhere. If you don’t think He exists, how about explaining the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima?
Proving a negative is not possible.
 
Proving a negative is not possible.
And what negative would that be? How about stop trying to go by science here and maybe accept the fact that some things just can’t be explained but we should accept them anyway? Like God’s existance. It may not sound logical, but we accept it because it has been proven He exists.
 
If you don’t think He exists, how about explaining the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima?
The point is that even in the absence of a reasonable explanation – like mass hysteria, some atmospheric condition limited to that area producing an optical illusion, etc. – an event like that would still be “something weird that we don’t have an explanation for.”

Weird stuff that we don’t have an explanation for isn’t evidence for random supernatural claims.

I don’t have an explanation for where my socks go when they get lost – is that evidence that sock-stealing gnomes exist and are taking my socks? Is this some “fact” that I ought to accept even though I can’t “prove” it, simply because I can’t come up with a reasonable explanation?
 
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