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RDJ12345
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You are right. I’m not trying to convince atheists of anything, I’m just trying to get them to think.
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bridgeforsale
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There’s no desperation for atheists. We’re not the ones left defending impossible myths from our bronze age ancestors.
Moreover, big bang cosmology has come a long way since Lemaitre. Yes big bounce is theoretical (but of course so is the big bang). Moreover, the idea of big bounce doesn’t disturb the basic premise of the big bang. All it does is eliminate the idea of an infinitely dense point (in popular terminology the “singularity”); an idea that defies the known laws of physics. The math for a big bounce works quite well (although there are some problems that need to be worked out).
You’re not being intellectually honest here (or perhaps you’re not well versed here)? The idea of “big bounce” is quite promising.
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bridgeforsale
Guest
Thinking is why we’re atheists
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bridgeforsale
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Actually calling “nature” or perhaps even science something akin to a god is similar to pantheism (not atheism), but frankly saying stuff like “we view science as our god” doesn’t bother me very much
But I still don’t think that’s accurate. I recognize the fallibility of science (whereas I imagine the concept of god requires belief in an infallible deity).
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ricmat
Guest
Do you understand heat death?
Lots of ideas are promising. Only one will be the truth.
As an engineer, I actually needed to deal with reality to be successful in my job. How about you?
The fact that math works out for the big bounce - so what!? Math is an abstraction, fantasies are possible which bear no relationship to reality. Math is not reality, although if you have an actual reality to work with, math can sometimes provide a model to work with.
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ricmat
Guest
Other than the fact that “promising” means nothing, you do realize of course that a few years ago, the scientists told us that the universe was eternal. Then they told us that there was a big bang. What? They keep changing their minds. Now you say it’s a big bounce. But…you know for a fact that THIS IS IT! This is the one. This is the real thing.
My story doesn’t change. God created everything.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
No cosmological argument can get over the fact that the Mainstream Christian God (MCG) - there are several kinds of God, & no end of gods 
- does not live up to his billing.
He does not:- save; despite being called a Saviour: see Belsen for example - so much for the faithfulness of God to the Jews
- And where was he while tens of thousands were being abused by clergy & religious ? Absent. How is that unsavingness not worthy of the devil ? Maybe God is the Devil
- all-good
- all-merciful
- all-wise
- almighty
- etc., etc., etc., etc.
- all-cheesy
- all-cuboid
- all-polythene
- all-washable
- all-toasty
- all-synthetic
- etc., etc., etc., etc ?
There is, however, no end of evidence that this allegedly all-merciful blah-blah-blah deity is not all-merciful. If the world were ruled by no god, or by an evil god, could it be really any worse than it is, with its allegedly all-wonderful, etc., God ?
Matters are made even worse by the instance of certain churches that that ideas about this allegedly ever-so-wonderful deity are unassailable truths.
It’s immoral, deceitful, fraudulent, manipulative, anti-social, to fill people’s heads with such utterly baseless & evidence-free nonsense. Talk about selling snake-oil ! 
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latin_rite
Guest
The universe is expanding now yes? And since it is expanding now. Its stands to reason that it has been expanding long before man turned up yes? SO how do we know it will contract? Because the math says so? Now i accepted the big bang. I didn’t always because of a few things that always erk me about the theroy.But i begrudingly gave in.( nothing to do with my religion mind you). So i would go to atheist web sites and say something like “How can the big bang be true? How can there be nothing then bang! there is everything? what was before the big bang?”
And almost with out fail. I would be mocked and ridiculed by them telling me how i reject science. (even though my reasons for not accepting the big bang had nothing to do with my faith) And they would tell me " the maths says so" or words to that effect. You say “don’t try this “tact” with the average atheist.” One i dont think the average atheist knows much about science. Or indeed no more than the average Christian. I seem to remember many many atheist. saying don’t try and argue with me that the big bang theroy isn’t correct.** I know my stuff when it comes to science"**. So whats different now?
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latin_rite
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Wow! you’re a angry little muppet Aren’t you? getting yourself all worked up over “nothing” as you put it. aaaawww the good ole Flying Spaghetti Monster . I was wondering when he was going to make a apearance. Well prove to me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn’t excist. Or should i just take your word for it? God didn’t save the jews? I guess all those millions of Christians who fought and died defeating hitler weren’t real either?, they must have been flying around with the Spaghetti Monster, i don’t know Maybe you need to see a giant hand come down from the clouds in order to think that God saved someone. I don’t. Would i like to see it? sure who wouldn;t feel blessed to see such a thing? But sorry my faith doesn’t depend on it.
You asked what does God give me that that hobbits and fsm don’t? Well God gives me a great deal of wonderment, joyand hope. Whats that you’re yelling at your computer screen… You don’t need God to feel wonderment, joy and hope?? Well neither do i. I feel wonderment and joy at a few things in life. That has nothing to do with my faith what so ever. But None the less. I do get a sence of those things from God. Sorry that all you get is a sence of hopelessness or nothing-ness from the thought of him. But thats your problem. Don’t get all jealous over those who don’t feel despair like you.
p.s Ahh bridgeforsale. I know the big bang hasn’t been rejected. But it seems a lot of the scienctific community is dropping it like a red headed step child.
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Tyuiop411
Guest
I like how you tied irony in their, that was nice. I’m speaking from personal experience when i say Atheists practice ego worship in that when was a Atheist i elevated my needs and myself above everything else. Now i can’t say all Atheists are this way, but from my experience with myself and other Atheists friends most of them are.You mean like theists in general, and Catholics in particular, are pretty dug in where their beliefs are concerned? Ego worship??? Puh-lease. Get over yourself.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
If it bothers you that much, please explain how anything in the universe can be anything but an accident, assuming no intelligent design.
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Bob4BVM
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SO what’s wrong with the idea of a “singularity” ? Why the need to eliminate the idea ?
Can we also eliminate the idea of black holes and other things which seem to defy the known laws of physics. ?
Why would we want to ? As an astronomer, I’d miss them.
As for impossible myths, the universe is far more mystifying than you or I can imagine.
What we may refer to as “miraculous” or “supernatural”, is just the everyday deal for God.
It took me a lifetime to come around to this realization ( that’s ‘realization’-not ‘conclusion’ ). A lifetime spent, btw, in science & technology.
I guess I would have seen it earlier, had I bothered to ask. But I was too busy figuring things out on my own.
I like your ideas and arguments, because I recognize much of myself in them.
But these days, there is way too much in my life that I cannot explain away as coincidence or accident or natural science. I have been waiting for better explanations, if someone has them, I am all ears. Not that I could go back, I could never leave this freedom, now that I’ve tasted it.
But my science-mind would still like to hear some explanation to certain events in my life.
Say what you like about evidence or lack of evidence. Ultimately the most compelling evidence for any ‘theory’ is that of personal experience.
Sadly, it can only be had by …personal experience.
From my own experience, I can offer this much-
If you are wondering if God exists, try asking Him. (Serious inquiries only.)
If you really care to know, believe me, He will let you know.
If you really don’t care, don’t bother. He’s not kicking any doors down.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I know that. Until we get a new law through new discovery and new information that are not available to us now. Who knows, we may be able to create or destroy energy.
Do you think it will be possible to see the fourth dimension in the time to come?
Like I said lots of things that we thought could not happen had happened. Formula is as good as long as no new discovery is found that can change it.
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ralphinal
Guest
Most anti-deists hold that there is no evidence to believe in God or that the evidence shows that there is no God.
My question is what evidence would be acceptable?
My question is what evidence would be acceptable?
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rick43235
Guest
My answer was originally going to be in jest, but the more I think about it, the more seriously I mean this…
Halftime at the Super Bowl. No…make it during the World Cup Final. Worldwide TV audience. Time is about to expire. Game tied. Everyone is on the edge of their seats. Suddenly, the sky is filled with deep purple clouds. There is a deafening thunder and a blinding flash of lightening. Everyone is filled with terror because they think it’s the end of the world. The Almighty assumes a form that we can see, sticks his head down through the clouds, and in a booming, terrifying voice yells, “YOU GUYS ARE REALLY STARTING TO **** ME OFF!!! I"M HERE. I"M WATCHING. WHEN YOU DIE, I’LL BE WAITING. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON MY BAD SIDE!!! THE CATHOLICS (or the Jews, or the Muslims, or whomever) GOT IT RIGHT. FOLLOW THEIR TEACHINGS AND YOU’LL BE OK. IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.”
Now, before you start rolling your eyes and saying the God doesn’t operate that way, tell me…why not?? I go to mass with my wife every week and honestly, I look for a reason to believe. It simply isn’t there. But, if God were to make himself known in a grand manner that nobody could ignore, you could put a $1,000,000 bounty on atheists and no one would be able to collect…because there would BE not atheists.
Just my $.02.
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ralphinal
Guest
I was hoping you would pick up on my “anti-deist” statementMy answer was originally going to be in jest, but the more I think about it, the more seriously I mean this…
Halftime at the Super Bowl. No…make it during the World Cup Final. Worldwide TV audience. Time is about to expire. Game tied. Everyone is on the edge of their seats. Suddenly, the sky is filled with deep purple clouds. There is a deafening thunder and a blinding flash of lightening. Everyone is filled with terror because they think it’s the end of the world. The Almighty assumes a form that we can see, sticks his head down through the clouds, and in a booming, terrifying voice yells, “YOU GUYS ARE REALLY STARTING TO **** ME OFF!!! I"M HERE. I"M WATCHING. WHEN YOU DIE, I’LL BE WAITING. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON MY BAD SIDE!!! THE CATHOLICS (or the Jews, or the Muslims, or whomever) GOT IT RIGHT. FOLLOW THEIR TEACHINGS AND YOU’LL BE OK. IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.”
Now, before you start rolling your eyes and saying the God doesn’t operate that way, tell me…why not?? I go to mass with my wife every week and honestly, I look for a reason to believe. It simply isn’t there. But, if God were to make himself known in a grand manner that nobody could ignore, you could put a $1,000,000 bounty on atheists and no one would be able to collect…because there would BE not atheists.
Just my $.02.
.So, I feel you, I really do.
Now, I deny that there is a state of Minnesota. People claim to be from there, but how can I know? Sure, you can show it to me on a map, but there are maps of Narnia and Endor and such. Pictures can be doctored. If you take me there, how can I be sure it is not as fake as the moon landing (not denying that one…).
Here is my point, if the voice did that, there would still be those who deny it. Because some people will deny anything.
And the funny post would be welcome
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ricmat
Guest
God sometimes does operate that way. In the book of Exodus, God does miracle after miracle for the Hebrews through Moses. Then, Moses disappears for a few weeks (on mount Sinai) and the Hebrews more or less “forget” everything they saw God do, and build a golden calf to worship instead. There are many more examples of this as well.Now, before you start rolling your eyes and saying the God doesn’t operate that way, tell me…why not?? I go to mass with my wife every week and honestly, I look for a reason to believe. It simply isn’t there. But, if God were to make himself known in a grand manner that nobody could ignore, you could put a $1,000,000 bounty on atheists and no one would be able to collect…because there would BE not atheists.
Just my $.02.
Another thing to consider is that maybe God doesn’t want to do a slam-dunk. He wants us to SEARCH for him, not be immediately gratified and not even doing any work along the way. It is the search for God and more generally a path through adversity, pain, and suffering that sometimes leads us to be able to love better. And until we do that, we can’t see “the face of God”, or even his back.
IMO.
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latin_rite
Guest
It would be cool in a way if it worked like that. But one problem. If God did do that… would you still be you? The things you do or say. Would they be a true indication of the person you are? Remeber. A shop lifter never shop lifts if he KNOWS for sure he is being watched.My answer was originally going to be in jest, but the more I think about it, the more seriously I mean this…
Halftime at the Super Bowl. No…make it during the World Cup Final. Worldwide TV audience. Time is about to expire. Game tied. Everyone is on the edge of their seats. Suddenly, the sky is filled with deep purple clouds. There is a deafening thunder and a blinding flash of lightening. Everyone is filled with terror because they think it’s the end of the world. The Almighty assumes a form that we can see, sticks his head down through the clouds, and in a booming, terrifying voice yells, “YOU GUYS ARE REALLY STARTING TO **** ME OFF!!! I"M HERE. I"M WATCHING. WHEN YOU DIE, I’LL BE WAITING. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON MY BAD SIDE!!! THE CATHOLICS (or the Jews, or the Muslims, or whomever) GOT IT RIGHT. FOLLOW THEIR TEACHINGS AND YOU’LL BE OK. IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.”
Now, before you start rolling your eyes and saying the God doesn’t operate that way, tell me…why not?? I go to mass with my wife every week and honestly, I look for a reason to believe. It simply isn’t there. But, if God were to make himself known in a grand manner that nobody could ignore, you could put a $1,000,000 bounty on atheists and no one would be able to collect…because there would BE not atheists.
Just my $.02.
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Bob4BVM
Guest
Simply isn’t there ?My answer was originally going to be in jest, but the more I think about it, the more seriously I mean this…
Halftime at the Super Bowl. No…make it during the World Cup Final. Worldwide TV audience. Time is about to expire. Game tied. Everyone is on the edge of their seats. Suddenly, the sky is filled with deep purple clouds. There is a deafening thunder and a blinding flash of lightening. Everyone is filled with terror because they think it’s the end of the world. The Almighty assumes a form that we can see, sticks his head down through the clouds, and in a booming, terrifying voice yells, “YOU GUYS ARE REALLY STARTING TO **** ME OFF!!! I"M HERE. I"M WATCHING. WHEN YOU DIE, I’LL BE WAITING. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON MY BAD SIDE!!! THE CATHOLICS (or the Jews, or the Muslims, or whomever) GOT IT RIGHT. FOLLOW THEIR TEACHINGS AND YOU’LL BE OK. IGNORE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.”
Now, before you start rolling your eyes and saying the God doesn’t operate that way, tell me…why not?? I go to mass with my wife every week and honestly, I look for a reason to believe. It simply isn’t there. But, if God were to make himself known in a grand manner that nobody could ignore, you could put a $1,000,000 bounty on atheists and no one would be able to collect…because there would BE not atheists.
Just my $.02.
Do yourself a favor my friend, ASK Him if He’s there.
Then make some space in your life so you won’t miss His answer. ( Easy to miss the reply in our present society)
Pls refer to my post # 32.
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Bob4BVM
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Yes He has worked that way in the past.
And He will do it again, problem is , the ‘jig will be up’ then !
Also, remember that as much as He wants us to know Him, His love for us forces Him to respect our free will.
Forced love is not love, but slavery
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