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Dauphin
Guest
And I suppose that since the Vatican held the world day of prayer for peace at Assisi, that means traditionalists should admit that prayer to idols is pleasing to God?
I really don’t understand this fetish for ecumenical “worship services”. A single Mass brings infinitely more graces than any number of these meetings.
It’s nauseating to imagine this taking place in a cathedral. These “services” certainly shouldn’t take place in a house of God, especially not in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
I really don’t understand this fetish for ecumenical “worship services”. A single Mass brings infinitely more graces than any number of these meetings.
It’s nauseating to imagine this taking place in a cathedral. These “services” certainly shouldn’t take place in a house of God, especially not in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
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vocatio
Guest
Where do you suggest that they hold the meetings? Tight budgets might make it more difficult to afford a secular building. And why would the participating Catholics not benefit from this ecumenical act in the presence of the blessed sacrament.
I believe that the Church has always done things like this. But what do I know? Think of it as a very long list of announcements after Mass.
The songs are good, but I didn’t read the entire article. John Wesley was an Anglican that encouraged others to continue in their Anglican worship along with their meeting. I researched this a bit while considering Methodism. Our pastor told us that his Protestant friends used to say that Methodists are really Baptist that know how to read.
Guess you had to be there.
I feel the same way. I’m for ecumenism, but not at the expense of our Children that are constantly being bereted and proselytized by our “Protestant brothers and sisters”. Ninety percent of my family is Protestant and many just believe we’re gong to hell anyway. So…yes…I have issues too.
But…Do NOT postpone joy over “I dots” that cause you discomfort.
I believe that the Church has always done things like this. But what do I know? Think of it as a very long list of announcements after Mass.
The songs are good, but I didn’t read the entire article. John Wesley was an Anglican that encouraged others to continue in their Anglican worship along with their meeting. I researched this a bit while considering Methodism. Our pastor told us that his Protestant friends used to say that Methodists are really Baptist that know how to read.
Guess you had to be there.I feel the same way. I’m for ecumenism, but not at the expense of our Children that are constantly being bereted and proselytized by our “Protestant brothers and sisters”. Ninety percent of my family is Protestant and many just believe we’re gong to hell anyway. So…yes…I have issues too.
But…Do NOT postpone joy over “I dots” that cause you discomfort.
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Windmill
Guest
Should we be celebrating the person of Wesley or just his good hymns? There is a difference. To utilize his hymns does not affirm his theology. To celebrate his person is to celebrate and affirm the entire life of such an iconic figure who said:
‘However in many respects the Pope has an indisputable claim to the title ‘Man of Sin’. He is in an emphatical sense The Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above men’.
Imagine if the Pope were to celebrate Reformation Day on October 31st (commemorating Luther’s nailing of the infamous 95 theses). Would this not be confusing, at the least? Would the confusion be mitigated if His Holiness tried to affirm the piety of Luther? No. Luther, just like Wesley, is an obvious symbol of a theology that is incompatible with and, at times, violent to Catholicism. To invoke him or praise him is to call upon everything he stands for - not just the positive aspects of his life.
‘However in many respects the Pope has an indisputable claim to the title ‘Man of Sin’. He is in an emphatical sense The Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above men’.
Imagine if the Pope were to celebrate Reformation Day on October 31st (commemorating Luther’s nailing of the infamous 95 theses). Would this not be confusing, at the least? Would the confusion be mitigated if His Holiness tried to affirm the piety of Luther? No. Luther, just like Wesley, is an obvious symbol of a theology that is incompatible with and, at times, violent to Catholicism. To invoke him or praise him is to call upon everything he stands for - not just the positive aspects of his life.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Instead of holding ecumenicical prayer meetings, the Church should hold evangelistic services. You do lots of public relations work - ads in the paper, news spots on the local channel, door to door visiting inviting the folks to come, and then you have a week or two weeks of meetings in which the doctrines of the Church are preached. At the end you have an altar call and invite anyone interested in receiving more instruction in the Faith to come down to the front. You enrole these folks into the local RCIA program, and come Easter baptize and confirm them. Wah-la! A bunch of Prots have been snatched like brands from the burning into the True Church.
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Linnyo
Guest
Groan…
The catholic mass only brings graces to those who are catholic! Nobody else is allowed to participate. The whole point of ecumenical worship is to be able to worship together with those who are not necessarily catholic but, nevertheless, love God. No wonder many non-Catholics think that the Catholic Church is 'closed ’ to outsiders! If all of us Catholics refused to ‘eat with the tax-collectors’, then there would probably be very few converts! Thankfully, Jesus doesn’t have a superiority complex. (even though He has every right to)
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Markstorm
Guest
This is really some cool stuff. If we want to convince people to come back into the true Church, a good way to do that is to allow them to bring their music and rhetoric into our cathedrals. That way, they are able to spread their errors to our children, and at the same time our children learn to look up to those who are vehemently opposed to Catholicism.
Why is everyone getting worried?
Why is everyone getting worried?
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Pious_Mat
Guest
Why can’t we be ecumenical without being passive-aggressive? This sort of ecumenism will bear no fruit, since, as is the case with Methodists and Anglicans, we would go from having “prayer services” with them one minute, to denying the Real Presence of their communion, and their status as Churches the next. Why not just say: “We’ll worship in our Churches, you worship in yours, and although we find many admirable points in how you worship the same God we do, we would not feel it appropriate to worship together.”
The United States has a good relationship with Israel, but they don’t have joint presidential inaugurations, or share taxes with each other. Some lines shouldn’t be crossed.
Not to mention how things like this contribute to the erosion of a unique Catholic identity…
The United States has a good relationship with Israel, but they don’t have joint presidential inaugurations, or share taxes with each other. Some lines shouldn’t be crossed.
Not to mention how things like this contribute to the erosion of a unique Catholic identity…
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Markstorm
Guest
Exactly, this is the attitude to take. Forget trying to convert them into the true Church, let’s just be happy and let things work themselves out. I love you, you love me…
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Linnyo
Guest
Yeah…That is just what Jesus would have said…NOT! I think Catholics forget that the Bible tells us “Go forth and multiply!” and that doesn’t just mean have a zillion babies.
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Markstorm
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Oh, but what do you suggest we do? Actually debate with Protestants, use rational argument to bring them over? Draw the line at our cathedrals, refuse to let those hostile to the Church sing their songs and spout their ideas? That would be so insensitive to their feelings.
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Windmill
Guest
Even the Pope respectfully refused to “participate” in the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy when he visited the Ecumenical Patriarche of Byzantium. It is not about “refusing to eat with the tax collectors”, it is about real doctrinal differences that exist. And when we try to pretend that these differences are inconsequential, we end up mocking God, the Church, and the Martyrs.
Thank God St. Athanasius didn’t “eat with the tax collectors”, or else Arianism may have drawn more of the faithful out of the Church.
What about English martyrs who didn’t “eat with the tax collectors”, and died for their devotion to the Holy Catholic Church? Are we saying that their deaths were unnecessary or in vain?
The problem is this: there is a difference between individual persons trying to pray in common and have honest debate about theological differences; and having public ceremonies in Catholic churches honoring anti-papists and presided over by curial officials. What was accomplished at this meeting in drawing people to the True Faith that Christ established on earth? Nothing.
This reminds me of the move that the Anglican COmmunion made to have an open communion table. Anyone could approach for Cummunion at their churches. The hope was that this visible sign of unity would effect unity of belief. It didn’t. In fact, many of these denominations are further apart than before.
Thank God St. Athanasius didn’t “eat with the tax collectors”, or else Arianism may have drawn more of the faithful out of the Church.
What about English martyrs who didn’t “eat with the tax collectors”, and died for their devotion to the Holy Catholic Church? Are we saying that their deaths were unnecessary or in vain?
The problem is this: there is a difference between individual persons trying to pray in common and have honest debate about theological differences; and having public ceremonies in Catholic churches honoring anti-papists and presided over by curial officials. What was accomplished at this meeting in drawing people to the True Faith that Christ established on earth? Nothing.
This reminds me of the move that the Anglican COmmunion made to have an open communion table. Anyone could approach for Cummunion at their churches. The hope was that this visible sign of unity would effect unity of belief. It didn’t. In fact, many of these denominations are further apart than before.
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mercygate
Guest
This thread is absurd.
We sing theologically questionable junk from St. Louis Jesuits and the Haas/Haugen/OCP marketing machine but you oppose perfectly orthodox and musically excellent hymnody with a Christology that in no way conflicts with that of the Catholic Church?
Do I hear “genetic fallacy?”
Wait, let me go and “Sing a New Church” to get the taste of “Jesus Christ is Ris’n Today” out of my mouth.
We sing theologically questionable junk from St. Louis Jesuits and the Haas/Haugen/OCP marketing machine but you oppose perfectly orthodox and musically excellent hymnody with a Christology that in no way conflicts with that of the Catholic Church?
Do I hear “genetic fallacy?”
Wait, let me go and “Sing a New Church” to get the taste of “Jesus Christ is Ris’n Today” out of my mouth.
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Windmill
Guest
Who opposes good hymnody? Good art is good art, no matter what its source is. Completely pagan artists are capable of creating some of the most inspiring art. I have issue here with the public celebration of the life of a public anti-Catholic in a Catholic Church. It’s confusing, to say the least.
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mercygate
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Apparently everybody on this thread except you and me.
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Linnyo
Guest
I have hardly met any protestants who are hostile to our church. What I have met are lots of protestants who think that Catholics choose to keep themselves separate from everyone else because they don’t want to mix. I have known protestant who would like to ‘try’ a Catholic Church but think that it is closed to outsiders. I know lots of protestants who have never knowingly protested but have just been given that label because of the family in which they grew up! I have never known a protestant to enter a Catholic Church to ‘spout their teachings’! In fact, a majority of protestant songs and hymns are VERY like Catholic ones, albeit, some might be a bit more upbeat. Most Protestant hymns are taken from the psalms or from other parts of the Bible. They worship and lift God’s name. Some Catholics have a bit of a superiority complx and seem to think that they are the only ones with a gift for song writing! I think some Catholics are more bigotted than most protestants and this is not somethiong to be proud of. But then, I used to live in the Went of Scotland and I hae seen the bigotry and the damage it can do. I have experienced it as a protestant and as a Catholic. I loathe the fact that some people think that they are always right and that others are always wrong. I know many wonderful, Godly, Catholics but I also know some very Godly, wonderful protestants. So tell me this. Can I not worship with all my friends? Does God not listen to the prayers of all my friends? Am I ‘better’ than them because I know the fullness of the Catholic Church. No, it is not I that is better - I just happened to get beyond that closed door!
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Markstorm
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My arguments are all for you. Of course you should be allowed to do whatever you like with Protestant friends - it’s especially good to join together with those who have heretical beliefs if it’s inside a Basilica. That’s when all sorts of positive messages are sent.
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Linnyo
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YOU are assuming they have heretical beliefs!
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Linnyo
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BTW you never read and understood the post. Most protestants did not choose to be protestant therefore they have not protested. Granted, some did choose and do protest but most don’t. They are just unaware of the fullness of the Catholic Church. Is that the way we want to keep it?
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Markstorm
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Nope. Convert them. Good luck.
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