For us men

[Seatuck]

The GIRM does not require the Nicene Creed to be said. It only requires the Creed (which is the Nicene or the Apostles Creed).

It is understood when the GIRM says “the Creed” the Nicene Creed is meant.

From the Catechism-

**167 **“I believe” (Apostles’ Creed) is the faith of the Church professed personally by each believer, principally during Baptism. “We believe” (Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed) is the faith of the Church confessed by the bishops assembled in council or more generally by the liturgical assembly of believers. “I believe” is also the Church, our mother, responding to God by faith as she teaches us to say both “I believe” and “We believe”.

Read the following for more info-

cuf.org/FaithFacts/details_view.asp?ffID=191

Permission has been given for masses with children for the Apostles Creed to be recited instead. In some countries the Apostles Creed may be substituted every Sunday at all Masses.

 

[thistle]

It is understood when the GIRM says “the Creed” the Nicene Creed is meant.

From the Catechism-

**167 **“I believe” (Apostles’ Creed) is the faith of the Church professed personally by each believer, principally during Baptism. “We believe” (Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed) is the faith of the Church confessed by the bishops assembled in council or more generally by the liturgical assembly of believers. “I believe” is also the Church, our mother, responding to God by faith as she teaches us to say both “I believe” and “We believe”.

Read the following for more info-

cuf.org/FaithFacts/details_view.asp?ffID=191

Permission has been given for masses with children for the Apostles Creed to be recited instead.

That is simply not correct.

 

[Seatuck]

That is simply not correct.

I was revising as you were writing. Here is a further discussion.

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur154.htm

From the old encyclopedia just to show the historical evidence.

newadvent.org/cathen/04479a.htm

Seems to be a little difference between rites.

 

[japhy]

(I don’t have a copy of the new Missal yet, so after reading the EWTN link with a response from Fr. McNamara, I concede could be permissible for your parish to use the Apostles’ Creed, depending on what country you’re in.)

The GIRM does not require the Nicene Creed to be said. It only requires the Creed (which is the Nicene or the Apostles Creed).

The GIRM implies that “the Creed” (which appears seven times in the GIRM in English) is the Nicene Creed, because GIRM 137 says the following:
The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.
Those words do not appear in the Apostles’ Creed, only in the Nicene Creed; thus, the norm is to use the Nicene Creed. The Sacramentary says the Apostles’ Creed may be used at Masses for children.

 

[Brendan]

How come you say the Apostles’ Creed? Are these Masses with children?

Thistle could be Canadian.

The Canadian GIRM specifies the Apostles Creed, with an option to use the Nicean.

So most Canadians say the Apostles Creed at each Mass.

 

[japhy]

Thistle could be Canadian.

Another reason why filling in location information (at least generally) is helpful. I also wish CAF would include the Religion description in the post’s heading as well.

 

[Fidelia]

I completely agree. The only word I know of in english used in common conversation refering to a person that does not denote a sex is “baby.”

i.e. “Are you bringing baby today?” or “What did baby eat today?”

There just isn’t a good word in english that covers what is meant to be said. There is no truly unisex word for the older-than-baby set.

Andy

Also, if you read the Catechism, I think in the section of ordination, they specify that when they say “man” the original Latin is “vir” (meaning man, as in specifically and only adult male) and not “homo” (meaning man, as in person, human being, collective, gender not relevant) “Homo” isn’t really used when what is means is specifically “man” (adult male) because that’s what “vir” is. German has mann and mensch also, same idea (though i forget which is which). English just didn’t ‘evolve’ that way, and the word “man” is used to translate both “homo” and “vir” which is why when “vir” was meant, they specified in the CCC that ordination is for a man (vir). So anyone who dislikes “For us men…” should just go to a Latin Mass lol.

 

[Ghoti]

I’m from Canada. I remember as a child in Toronto (before 1974) that the Nicene Creed used to be the main Creed spoken (I went to St Charles Borromeo on Lawrence Ave). When we moved to Newfoundland, the Apostles’ Creed was the norm, with the Nicene reserved for special occasions (like Christmas, Easter, etc). Now that I’m back in Toronto (as of 2004), again the Apostles’ seems predominant.

I did not know that the GIRM for Canada was different (before I came to these boards I did not know that the GIRM existed). I did notice some differences, tho’, when I went to a mass in the US* five or so years back, enough that I kind of felt “out of the loop”. I remember not knowing any of the hymns, and wondering where the heck was my Catholic Book of Worship.

Different jurisdictions, different permissions, I guess. On the same note, for example, Newfoundlanders are permitted to eat seal meat on Fridays in Lent.

*The mass was in Springfield, Massachusetts; there was a lot of people there, so I suppose you could call it a mass Mass Mass!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .
*The mass was in Springfield, Massachusetts; there was a lot of people there, so I suppose you could call it a mass Mass Mass!

Springfield is in Southern Massachusetts; that is Low Mass. For High Mass try Lowell in the north.

 

[Sure]

Fear not, “man” meaning “human” is a perfectly legitimate and acceptable term in SECULAR linguistics. The American Heritage Dictionary has this to say:

Usage Note: Traditionally, many writers have used man and words derived from it to designate any or all of the human race regardless of sex. In fact, this is the oldest use of the word. In Old English the principal sense of man was “a human,” and the words wer and wyf (or wæpman and wifman) were used to refer to “a male human” and “a female human” respectively. But in Middle English man displaced wer as the term for “a male human,” while wyfman (which evolved into present-day woman) was retained for “a female human.” Despite this change, man continued to carry its original sense of “a human” as well, resulting in an asymmetrical arrangement that many criticize as sexist. · Nonetheless, a majority of the Usage Panel still accepts the generic use of man, although the women members have significantly less enthusiasm for this usage than the men do. For example, the sentence “If early man suffered from a lack of information, modern man is tyrannized by an excess of it” is acceptable to **81 percent **of the Panel.

 

[john_ennis]

It’s annoying, but I guess–offer it up.

It’s like having to sing, “I am the Bread of Life, you who come to me shall not hunger…no one can come to Me, unless the Father* beckons*.”
That sends you running to your Bible to see if God really changed the words.

Peace.
John

 

[Ghoti]

Springfield is in Southern Massachusetts; that is Low Mass. For High Mass try Lowell in the north.

Or for a really high Mass, try California…duuuuude…

 

[thistle]

Thistle could be Canadian.

The Canadian GIRM specifies the Apostles Creed, with an option to use the Nicean.

So most Canadians say the Apostles Creed at each Mass.

I’m actually British but live in the Philippines. We only say the Apostles Creed.

 

[djrakowski]

Yea, same here. It actually kinda’ wierd going to other parishes and being the only one who bows.

The striking of the breast during the Penitential Rite Form A " I confess to Almighty God"… as well. I was at a different parish on Sunday and that form was used. The priest and my family were the only ones who struck our breasts or bowed during the Creed.

Most of the congregation ‘remembered’ to hold hands during the Our Father though

I’ve attended one of the large parishes in the city just to the west of ours, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard them use Penitential Rite Form A. Mostly, they use the one in which the clergy ad-lib 3 lines, interspersed with “Lord, have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy.” It throws me off my game, since I expect to recite/sing/chant the Kyrie after the Penitential Rite.

At any rate, Brendan, you should join us at the Saturday evening Latin Mass, in which we recite Rite A in Latin, and strike our breasts three times at “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.”

 

[jbebeau]

The GIRM must be read in conjunction with the Order of Mass. In general the Nicene Creed is to be used at Mass, however the 2002 Missal allows the Apostles’ to be used in place of the Nicene Creed, especially during the Lent and Easter Seasons. Interestingly enough, the new Missal also requires a profound bow during the Apostles’ Creed as well.

Canada has been granted an indult to use the Apostles’ Creed in place of the Nicene Creed.

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,

At the following words, up to and including born of the Virgin Mary, all bow.

who was conceived from the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary, . . .