For us who like traditional music

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Michael is bang-on again.

Re: ‘Amazing Grace’:
At least the CBW III has dropped the word ‘wretch’, much to my surprise. I was quite shocked to see the change in the lyrics of the first line. In order to convert I studied Catholicism quite in depth, but I missed the problem with this word all together. It was an FSSP priest that pointed out the protestant theology elsewhere int the song.

I wish my whole parish would watch Real Catholic TV. Especially my pastor and bishop.
 
archangel04 said:
Michael Voris nails it on the head
youtube.com/watch?v=KL1TLJ1ftP0
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Sorry, his argument is incredibly weak. Here are his two points:
  1. Wretches. For a guy like Voris, who’s usually complaining that songs are too happy-clappy, I’m-great-and-you-are-too, you’d think this would make him satisfied. I guess you just can’t please some people, though. Look, the point of the song is not that humans are essentially wretched creatures (though, in comparison with the infinite glory of God, we certainly look pretty wretched), but that the narrator was a wretch. What does he say? He was “lost,” he was “blind” – sounds like he was leading a pretty -]dissolute/-] -]miserable/-] -]lowly/-] wretched existence, until God’s grace raised him out of it. Which brings us to …
  2. How precious did that grace appear. Voris understands this to mean that, when the narrator decided to believe in God, grace suddenly materialized (“appeared” as out of thin air). But “appear” in the context of the song means “seem,” not “come into being.” The whole idea is that the narrator “was blind” to God, but, through God’s grace, his eyes were opened, and he beheld the preciousness of that grace. He was lost, but Grace taught his heart to fear, and once his eyes were opened, “[h]ow precious did that Grace appear” to him. Voris comes off looking like an idiot on this point – it’s just an utter failure to understand the text.
There are reasons enough not to prefer this song as music for the liturgy: you can argue well enough that it’s so identified with Protestantism that, despite its many merits, it’s just not seemly to use it. I feel that way about the Old Hundredth, which is a fantastic hymntune (you probably know it as “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” or “All People That On Earth Do Dwell”), and about A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. But the arguments Voris offers in this video range from tendentious to dumb.
 
MarkThompson said:
Sorry, his argument is incredibly weak. Here are his two points:
  1. Wretches. For a guy like Voris, who’s usually complaining that songs are too happy-clappy, I’m-great-and-you-are-too, you’d think this would make him satisfied. I guess you just can’t please some people, though. Look, the point of the song is not that humans are essentially wretched creatures (though, in comparison with the infinite glory of God, we certainly look pretty wretched), but that the narrator was a wretch. What does he say? He was “lost,” he was “blind” – sounds like he was leading a pretty -]dissolute/-] -]miserable/-] -]lowly/-] wretched existence, until God’s grace raised him out of it. Which brings us to …
  2. How precious did that grace appear. Voris understands this to mean that, when the narrator decided to believe in God, grace suddenly materialized (“appeared” as out of thin air). But “appear” in the context of the song means “seem,” not “come into being.” The whole idea is that the narrator “was blind” to God, but, through God’s grace, his eyes were opened, and he beheld the preciousness of that grace. He was lost, but Grace taught his heart to fear, and once his eyes were opened, “[h]ow precious did that Grace appear” to him. Voris comes off looking like an idiot on this point – it’s just an utter failure to understand the text.
There are reasons enough not to prefer this song as music for the liturgy: you can argue well enough that it’s so identified with Protestantism that, despite its many merits, it’s just not seemly to use it. I feel that way about the Old Hundredth, which is a fantastic hymntune (you probably know it as “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” or “All People That On Earth Do Dwell”), and about A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. But the arguments Voris offers in this video range from tendentious to dumb.
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Agree! He totally misses the mark, as he often does. Have unsubscribed.
 
Indyann said:
Agree! He totally misses the mark, as he often does. Have unsubscribed.
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I don’t think he misses the mark on a lot of things. If anything thing he shows what most of us don’t want to look at. He is no music expert and he might have been wrong about the song, but the last coment was dead on. There is so much sacred music available, but yet we get stuck to listening to 70’s and 80’s lame secular music, by the way I am 25 and I hate when older generations say that their music is what we want to hear at mass.
 
Well, I personally like Mark Voris and agree with him on Amazing Grace. Its one of the many protestant hymns that the Catholic church uses and I think it needs to stop.
 
Indyann said:
Agree! He totally misses the mark, as he often does. Have unsubscribed.
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I have been watching Michael Voris for a number of months now and find that he is very rarely missing the mark.
He is challenging us, both laymen and clergy, to remain faithful to Church teaching rather than being led astray by worldly influences or protestantism.
 
MarkThompson said:
Sorry, his argument is incredibly weak. Here are his two points:
  1. Wretches. For a guy like Voris, who’s usually complaining that songs are too happy-clappy, I’m-great-and-you-are-too, you’d think this would make him satisfied. I guess you just can’t please some people, though. Look, the point of the song is not that humans are essentially wretched creatures (though, in comparison with the infinite glory of God, we certainly look pretty wretched), but that the narrator was a wretch. What does he say? He was “lost,” he was “blind” – sounds like he was leading a pretty -]dissolute/-] -]miserable/-] -]lowly/-] wretched existence, until God’s grace raised him out of it. Which brings us to …
  2. How precious did that grace appear. Voris understands this to mean that, when the narrator decided to believe in God, grace suddenly materialized (“appeared” as out of thin air). But “appear” in the context of the song means “seem,” not “come into being.” The whole idea is that the narrator “was blind” to God, but, through God’s grace, his eyes were opened, and he beheld the preciousness of that grace. He was lost, but Grace taught his heart to fear, and once his eyes were opened, “[h]ow precious did that Grace appear” to him. Voris comes off looking like an idiot on this point – it’s just an utter failure to understand the text.
There are reasons enough not to prefer this song as music for the liturgy: you can argue well enough that it’s so identified with Protestantism that, despite its many merits, it’s just not seemly to use it. I feel that way about the Old Hundredth, which is a fantastic hymntune (you probably know it as “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” or “All People That On Earth Do Dwell”), and about A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. But the arguments Voris offers in this video range from tendentious to dumb.
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I totally agree! This guy might be right on in other issues. But I thought he missed the point in the song. Saint Paul used this strong language to describe who he was in the light of God (“Worst of sinners”). Does this mean he really was the worst of sinners?

I also did not appreciate the way he conducted his argument. The whole, “WRONG!” statements were very condescending. Surely one can make a strong, even passionate, argument without sounding like a freaking jerk! In this video, he sounds more like Rush Limbaugh.
 
Well, I happen to think, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck are right on the mark. so maybe thats why I like Voris too
 
I attend several Gospel Bluegrass festivals during the year to enjoy “Good Ole Southern Gospel” done in the bluegrass style but I would not expect nor want to hear that music at a Catholic liturgy. My wife, a choir member, tells me all the music selections are from a list provided by the diocese and presumably approved by the Bishop either tacitly or in fact.
 
I love “Amazing Grace”, and so does my family. They played it at my mother’s funeral mass because my dad (a convert) knew that was one of her favorite hymns.

I’m not an intellect whatsoever anymore, I just know the song moves me, moves me to meditate on God’s Mercy. I would never even think of doctrinal differences listening to it.

I consider myself a Traddie, but I just know I love the hymn. I don’t think it takes away from the beauty of the Mass at all, but that’s just my opinion.
 
archangel04 said:
I don’t think he misses the mark on a lot of things. If anything thing he shows what most of us don’t want to look at. He is no music expert and he might have been wrong about the song, but the last coment was dead on. There is so much sacred music available, but yet we get stuck to listening to 70’s and 80’s lame secular music, by the way I am 25 and I hate when older generations say that their music is what we want to hear at mass.
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I said things like that when I was 25 also.
However being from the 60’s and 70’s - older generational et al.
I agree that much of that music was rather lame. You will feel the same way when you are “older generational”

There is nothing so humbling as looking a photgraphs of myself when I was in my twenties and the stupid clothes I was wearing and the silly songs I was singing and I was as far right of the hippies as one could get.

So, hang in there, with God’s blessing someday you will be “older generations” yourself.

Seriously though, good music and I really mean good music - either secular or religious - cuts across all generations. The music that will last will be loved and played and sung for many generations to come.
 
HelenRose said:
I said things like that when I was 25 also.
However being from the 60’s and 70’s - older generational et al.
I agree that much of that music was rather lame. You will feel the same way when you are “older generational”

There is nothing so humbling as looking a photgraphs of myself when I was in my twenties and the stupid clothes I was wearing and the silly songs I was singing and I was as far right of the hippies as one could get.

So, hang in there, with God’s blessing someday you will be “older generations” yourself.

Seriously though, good music and I really mean good music - either secular or religious - cuts across all generations. The music that will last will be loved and played and sung for many generations to come.
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Oh no doubt, I like lots of music from the radio, more then “christian” music, but I also love chant, and from the 60’s and 70’s I love the Beatles. My sister who is 13 loves loves the Beattles and even ABBA?🤷
 
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