For what reason is Jesus physically present in Holy Communion?

  • Thread starter Thread starter WojciechKosek
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WojciechKosek

Guest
The physical presence of Christ in Holy Communion is different from the physical presence of ordinary bodies. The Catholic Church has not dogmatically defined how the Jesus’ human body received in Holy Communion is related to our physical space. We only know that where the Most Holy Host is, there, i.e. in this place (or rather in a deep connection with this very place, i.e. in connection impenetrable, not known, not revealed), the Lord Jesus in his human body is physically. But the important thing is that there is no physical interaction between the body of Jesus and the bodies of our world!

Maybe it is shocking, but the Holy Host (i.e. bred after transubstantiation) is not the physical body of the Lord Jesus! Similarly, the Holy Blood (i.e. wine after transubstantiation) is not the physical blood of Jesus.

What we eat / drink is not the physical body / blood of Jesus.

We eat the so-called Eucharistic forms (species in Latin), that is (and this is shocking, but the Church so teaches) we only consume physical influences that are responsible for the taste, shape, color, smell, etc. physical characteristics of the bread (i.e. the physical characteristics of the host). To be more precise: during the act of consumption, our bodies enter into natural physical interactions with the physical properties of the host which does not exist (because transubstantiation consists in the fact that the physical host does not exist anymore! - after transubstantiation is the physical, real, substantial presence of Jesus! - simply He is here, where before there was a physical host, i.e. white non-acid bread).

We can only figuratively say that after receiving Holy Communion the blood of Jesus flows in our veins. Only figuratively, poetically… Because the truth of faith is as I wrote above: there is no physical interaction between the physical human body of Jesus and the bodies of our world. He is close, very close, He is physically with you after receiving Him in Holy Communion, but at the same time he does not physically touch you, he does not touch any element of your body.

His physical presence is not intended to change something in our body (at least this is not the main goal, although Jesus can e.g. heal someone physically after coming in the Holy Communion).

The goal of His physical presence is to make us thinking about Him, being physically with him… as if we see Him physically. His short physical presence with us is an occasion for us to focus on Him, to focus on His physical presence, and therefore to focus on His unique presence, a presence that lasts only until the complete dissolution of the Eucharistic forms (in spirituality textbooks it is assumed that this is about 15 minutes, although I do not know what is this knowledge from! I do not know any studies that would confirm this view!).

It is important to note the uniqueness of his presence! Jesus wants to be hosted after communion as Mary used to do it (cf. Luk 10:38-42): she used to sit at His feet, listen to His voice, look at Him with love… Well, well… love is the most important… Jesus’ love for me, my love for Jesus, our mutual love with Jesus…
 
What? You seem to be saying multiple (contradictory) things at once.
 
You ask a question, then you spend the entire time giving us your opinion. What you have described is not even close to Catholic teaching … it is pure conjecture on your part. What source(s) did you use to arrive at your view?
 
Body, blood, soul, and divinity are received, even though not appearing to be that.

Pope Paul VI wrote in the encyclical Mysterium fidei:
Mysterium Fidei (September 3, 1965) | Paul VI
46. … As a result of transubstantiation, the species of bread and wine undoubtedly take on a new signification and a new finality, for they are no longer ordinary bread and wine but instead a sign of something sacred and a sign of spiritual food; but they take on this new signification, this new finality, precisely because they contain a new “reality” which we can rightly call ontological. For what now lies beneath the aforementioned species is not what was there before, but something completely different; and not just in the estimation of Church belief but in reality, since once the substance or nature of the bread and wine has been changed into the body and blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and the wine except for the species—beneath which Christ is present whole and entire in His physical “reality,” corporeally present, although not in the manner in which bodies are in a place.
Prayer of St. John Damascene (Byzantine Catholic)
God, my God, all-consuming invisible fire, you make your angels flaming fire. In your
inexpressible love, you have condescended to give me your divine flesh. You have allowed me to
partake of your divinity by possessing your most pure body and precious blood. May they penetrate
my entire body and spirit and all my bones. May they burn away my sins, enlighten my soul, and
brighten my understanding. May they sanctify me, making a dwelling-place in me so that I too may
be in you forever, with your blessed Father, and your all-holy Spirit, through the prayers of your
most pure Mother and of all your saints. Amen.
 
Last edited:
It has been my understanding that the effect of the Eucharist is to join us to God (and one another). Here I copy a passage from an article I found at USCCB, supporting that:
By eating the Body and drinking the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist we become united to the person of Christ through his humanity. “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him” (Jn 6:56). In being united to the humanity of Christ we are at the same time united to his divinity. Our mortal and corruptible natures are transformed by being joined to the source of life. “Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me” (Jn 6:57). By being united to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, we are drawn up into the eternal relationship of love among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The ultimate promise of the Gospel is that we will share in the life of the Holy Trinity. The Fathers of the Church called this participation in the divine life “divinization” ( theosis ). In this we see that God does not merely send us good things from on high; instead, we are brought up into the inner life of God, the communion among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
 
Not sure what it is you are trying to communicate.
However it is perfectly obvious Jesus is not physically present but bread is.

Then again it is likely Catholics cannot even agree on this because not all Catholics understand/agree what “physical” means as taught at school or accepted by 99% of the English speaking world.

It is interesting that 1% of the English speaking world believes it has some sort of right to tell the other 99% how “physical” is to be defined…and according to Greek philosophy 3000 years ago… yet abandoned by European civilisation some 500 years ago!
 
Last edited:
However it is perfectly obvious Jesus is not physically present but bread is.

Then again it is likely Catholics cannot even agree on this because not all Catholics understand/agree what “physical” means
Jesus is not present ‘physically’; He’s present sacramentally. In the Eucharist, ‘bread’ is no longer present, but Jesus is, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Simple statement of doctrine. 🤷‍♂️
 
Is the purpose of this thread to deny the real presence?

@sophie111

You are simply wrong. The Eucharist is the true presence, the real presence of Christ

All I can say about this thread is begone satan
 
Jesus is not present ‘physically’;
Yes we are agreed on this.
Yet many Catholics will not be.
As I observed, it will be because they use a definition of English “physical” that for most people died 100s of years ago, along with Geocentrism and many other oddities of ancient Greek “science”.
 
And from our Apostolate, which we are required to assent to, as Don Ruggero pointed out on a recent thread


“The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine. Evangelicals and Fundamentalists frequently attack this doctrine as “unbiblical,” but the Bible is forthright in declaring it (cf. 1 Cor. 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and, most forcefully, John 6:32–71). “
 
Last edited:
You need to ask, the OP that question not myself I would think.
I dont know about him but I am a Catholic who believes in the RP.
 
Last edited:
No, you are completely misrepresenting this. Jesus is wholly and literally present

End of story.
 
I believe in the Real Presence because of His Words in the Gospel of St. John 6:22-69. He never says in any of that discourse that He’s kidding or that He’s speaking symbolically;

John 6 NABRE-USCCB:

 
He condescended to enter into our humanity & become one of us, uniting His Divinity to our humanity so we that we might become spiritually adopted sons & daughters of God by partaking of His Divinity.
 
The issue I believe is whether Jesus or the bread is physically present. What is your view…and more important do you accept that the accepted English meaning of that word means visible to the senses?
 
No, you are completely misrepresenting this. Jesus is wholly and literally present

End of story.
I think you are confusing ‘literally’ and physically’. Yes. Jesus is literally present. But His presence is in a new and unique way. He is substantially present. The physical attributes of the bread - its taste, its appearance, the space it takes up in the air and so on- are still there (the ‘accidents’) but the Real Presence is a substantial presence. A presence at a greater depth than our senses can perceive, hence not a physical presence.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top