For what reason is Jesus physically present in Holy Communion?

[BartholomewB]

For what reason is Jesus physically present in Holy Communion?

When you say “reason”, do you mean “cause” or do you mean “purpose”?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

my view is the view of my Church.

Jesus is the real presence, therefore Jesus is the Eucharist. And yes, therefore Jesus is physically the Eucharist. Just because you still see a wafer, that doesn’t make it a wafer, physically, now does it.

Show me where in this case, physical , meaning the real presence, is anything but that, IN Catholic documents.

Paperweight, I am not. Jesus is literally and physically present. And we have that evidence in Eucharistic miracles. I am not going to argue the scientific state of elemental constituents and say oh well , just because we don’t see it, that means its not physically a reality.

If we believe , and we do, as Catholics, that Jesus is the Eucharist, the Eucharist is Jesus, then thats what we believe, Unless anyone can show me a vatican document stating otherwise. And that is comprehensive.

There are many things our senses cannot perceive at a physical presence, things we need scientific instruments to make out.
This does not mean they are not so.

 

[Francis]

where is the OP ? or trolling !

 

[Roseeurekacross]

i am going to give you an example of what I mean. By way of a real life incident.
There is a gold bearing rock in an ore body, in Victoria. It assays at quite a substantial amount of gold ppm. At that amount, the gold should be easy to see, and easy to find , and easy to extract. Right. but its not.

This ore body has had so many tests run on it to find the gold. Yes, the assays reveal the high amount of gold it bears. The assay testing has precision and accuracy (you need them both to verify robust methodology). However, put the rock under electron microscopes, try extracting the gold, try most modern testing, the gold cannot be seen. The rock looks like any old shale.

But we know the gold is there, we know the ore body is potentially worth a lot of money, but where and how is the gold?
So physically the rock is a grey shale with greenish tinges. Its real presence is a huge amount of gold ready to make its frustrated owners a lot of money.

 

[Francis]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm

**[1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life."136 "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.

**[1331 Holy Communion , because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.151 We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta) 152 - the first meaning of the phrase “communion of saints” in the Apostles’ Creed - the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,153 viaticum . . . .

1412 The essential signs of the Eucharistic sacrament are wheat bread and grape wine, on which the blessing of the Holy Spirit is invoked and the priest pronounces the words of consecration spoken by Jesus during the Last Supper: “This is my body which will be given up for you. . . . This is the cup of my blood. . . .”

1413 By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real, and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1640; 1651).

1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.

1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

1416 Communion with the Body and Blood of Christ increases the communicant’s union with the Lord, forgives his venial sins, and preserves him from grave sins. Since receiving this sacrament strengthens the bonds of charity between the communicant and Christ, it also reinforces the unity of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ.

1417 The Church warmly recommends that the faithful receive Holy Communion when they participate in the celebration of the Eucharist; she obliges them to do so at least once a year.

1418 Because Christ himself is present in the sacrament of the altar, he is to be honored with the worship of adoration. “To visit the Blessed Sacrament is . . . a proof of gratitude, an expression of love, and a duty of adoration toward Christ our Lord” (Paul VI, MF 66).

1419 Having passed from this world to the Father, Christ gives us in the Eucharist the pledge of glory with him. Participation in the Holy Sacrifice identifies us with his Heart, sustains our strength along the pilgrimage of this life, makes us long for eternal life, and unites us even now to the Church in heaven, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all the saints.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

where is the OP ? or trolling !

I don’t think these types of posts are trolls so much as somebody thinks they have developed or become aware of some brilliant theological breakthrough and want to share with the world.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP doesn’t return though, as the point of these threads usually seems to be to just present their theory, which they are convinced is right, and not to debate it (given that it’s usually contradictory to church teaching anyway).

 

[Francis]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP doesn’t return though, as the point of these threads usually seems to be to just present their theory, which they are convinced is right, and not to debate it (given that it’s usually contradictory to church teaching anyway).

I would second that! i have seen many, who keep posting but never return or for long, obviously we know what’s there intention is.

 

[Sophie111]

There are many things our senses cannot perceive at a physical presence, things we need scientific instruments to make out.

Then you agree with me, scientific instruments, as everybody knows, simply extend the human senses into the physical world.
There will never be an instrument that will detect the presence of Jesus’s body. Conversely there will never be an instrument that will deny the presence of bread.
The reason is simple, the senses and instruments that extend the range of our senses only detect “accidents” of matter or its related forces. That is the current definition
of the word “physical”. Jesus is present “substantially” as others have noted. Therefore he cannot be detected.

If you disagree please define how you use the word.

 

[Richca]

The physical presence of Christ in Holy Communion is different from the physical presence of ordinary bodies.

True.

Maybe it is shocking, but the Holy Host (i.e. bred after transubstantiation) is not the physical body of the Lord Jesus! Similarly, the Holy Blood (i.e. wine after transubstantiation) is not the physical blood of Jesus.

What we eat / drink is not the physical body / blood of Jesus.

We eat the so-called Eucharistic forms (species in Latin), that is (and this is shocking, but the Church so teaches) we only consume physical influences that are responsible for the taste, shape, color, smell, etc. physical characteristics of the bread (i.e. the physical characteristics of the host).

We do eat and drink the physical body and blood of Jesus for we believe that Jesus’ body and blood are literally and substantially present in the eucharist but invisibly and non-sensibly. The body and blood of Jesus are material substances made of flesh, bones, and blood. And the whole body of Jesus is present in the eucharist including his accidents.

It is true that the sensible accidents of the bread and wine remain after the consecration and transubstantiation and we consume these too in holy communion. But hidden underneath the sensible species of the bread and wine is the substantial presence of the physical body and blood of Jesus which we consume too.

To be more precise: during the act of consumption, our bodies enter into natural physical interactions with the physical properties of the host which does not exist (because transubstantiation consists in the fact that the physical host does not exist anymore! - after transubstantiation is the physical, real, substantial presence of Jesus! - simply He is here, where before there was a physical host, i.e. white non-acid bread).

After transubstantiation, the accidents or species of the bread and wine remain and they do exist for we can see, feel, and taste them. But, Jesus’ body and blood are substantially present under the sensible accidents or species of the bread and wine.

 

[Gorgias]

No, you are completely misrepresenting this. Jesus is wholly and literally present

The misunderstanding is based on the way that the OP framed it up.

Is Jesus present in a physical mode, or a sacramental mode?

Are the physical characteristics that we perceive the physical characteristics of a person, or of bread and wine?

Jesus is sacramentally present, under the ‘accidents’ (i.e., physical characteristics) of bread and wine.

The issue I believe is whether Jesus or the bread is physically present. What is your view…and more important do you accept that the accepted English meaning of that word means visible to the senses?

We would say that bread and wine isn’t present, although the physical characteristics of bread and wine are.

I get your difficulty here. I would disagree that physical only means “visible to the senses”. Oxygen is physical; oxygen isn’t visible to the senses. Black holes are physical; black holes aren’t visible to the senses.

In any case, we don’t define the Eucharist by the OED. It’s a theological definition, not a secular one, so looking to the culture for a definition is nonsensical. The definition of the Eucharist doesn’t stop with what it seen and touched and tasted – it also includes a transcendent component, which you’re not addressing here.

Jesus is present “substantially” as others have noted.

Yes, the ‘Real Presence’ is the presence of Jesus. However, there is a physical component. That perceptible component is the “accidents of bread and wine”. Jesus is not “bread and wine” nor is Jesus “in the bread and wine.” The substance of bread and wine ceases to exist, so it’s no longer bread and wine, but Jesus. So, the accidents of Jesus in the Eucharist are the accidents of bread and wine. That’s the physical presence.

 

[Richca]

(continued)

From: WojciechKosek:
We can only figuratively say that after receiving Holy Communion the blood of Jesus flows in our veins. Only figuratively, poetically… Because the truth of faith is as I wrote above: there is no physical interaction between the physical human body of Jesus and the bodies of our world.

The Church is very clear that the eucharistic presence of Jesus is not just a figure or symbolic presence but a real substantial presence. So, Jesus’ blood does literally flow in our veins when we drink from the chalice because Jesus’ blood is literally, substantially, and physically present but in an invisible and non-sensible manner under the accidents of the wine.

It is true that Jesus’ body and blood in the eucharist cannot be affected by the bodies and physical forces of our world for his substantial presence in the eucharist is outside or beyond the order of bodies in this world and what they can affect in their actions. Also, Jesus’ risen body in the eucharist is glorified, immortal, and impassible. Though Jesus’ body and blood cannot be affected or acted on by the bodies of this world or its forces, that doesn’t mean that Jesus may not affect them supernaturally. In fact, the eucharist is a cause of grace so Jesus’ body and blood in the eucharist is an instrumental cause of supernatural grace by which we can receive an increase of sanctifying grace which inheres in our soul and our soul is the form of the body and animates it.

“Not that there lies under those species what was already there before, but something quite different; and that not only because of the faith of the Church, but in objective reality, since after the change of the substance or nature of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, nothing remains of the bread and wine but the appearances, under which Christ, whole and entire, in His physical “reality” is bodily present, although not in the same way that bodies are present in a given place” ( Mysterium Fidei (Mystery of Faith), Pope Paul VI, 1965).

 

[Lee1]

Not a technical point I’ll admit but there have been at least two people who have survived on nothing but the host for very long periods of time.

One of these people wasn’t believed and they were monitored very closely and it was verified that indeed all they had consumed was the host.

I’ll try to remember who the latter example was.

 

[Lee1]

Blessed Alexandrina da Costa of Balasar (1904-1955)
–Extraordinary mystic and victim soul

Nourished only by the Eucharist
On Good Friday, March 27, 1942, a new phase began for Alexandrina- She received no nourishment of any kind except the Holy Eucharist. This extraordinary miracle continued for 13 years and seven months until her death.

She was confined to a bed during this period as far as I can tell, however it’s quite a story in full elsewhere.

 

[Sophie111]

Oxygen is physical; oxygen isn’t visible to the senses.

Visible clearly means detectable/identifiable as such via the senses or instruments that extend the senses.
Phenolphthalien may be considered an instrument that detects hydrogen or hydroxide ions. Ions clearly cannot be seen, but because they are physical there is no intrinsic reason why they cannot be detected.

 

[Dovekin]

his substantial presence in the eucharist is outside or beyond the order of bodies in this world and what they can affect in their actions.

We often declare, before we receive, that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. Is that also a physical presence?

Whatever logic you use for that question, apply it to answering the OP’s question. It is outside or beyond the order of bodies in this world. Or perhaps, inside or within the order of this world.

 

[Sophie111]

We often declare, before we receive, that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. Is that also a physical presence?

Come on, surely you can see this is but a metaphor for all authority being given to the Son by the Father .

Scripture stated heaven is Gods throne and earth his footstool. Does that mean God has legs that are about 5 km long!

 

[AveOTheotokos]

For what reason is Jesus physically present in Holy Communion?

The physical presence of Christ in Holy Communion is different from the physical presence of ordinary bodies. … But the important thing is that there is no physical interaction between the body of Jesus and the bodies of our world!…

Your post is a bit confusing and inconsistent, but I hope this information will help you, or others who see this thread.

A human is not just a body. We are hylomorphic beings; a body/soul composite.

Why is Jesus present in the Eucharist?

If we look to the “Secreta” prayers of the Liturgy of the Eucharist in the Roman Missal, we can find some answers:

1. The Priest, standing at the altar, takes the paten with the bread and holds it slightly raised
   above the altar with both hands, saying in a low voice:
   Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
   for through your goodness we have received
   the bread we offer you:
   fruit of the earth and work of human hands,
   it will become for us the bread of life.
2. The Deacon, or the Priest, pours wine and a little water into the chalice, saying quietly:
   By the mystery of this water and wine
   may we come to share in the divinity of Christ
   who humbled himself to share in our humanity.
3. The Priest then takes the chalice and holds it slightly raised above the altar with both hands,
   saying in a low voice:
   Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation,
   for through your goodness we have received
   the wine we offer you:
   fruit of the vine and work of human hands,
   it will become our spiritual drink.

Jesus is the bread of life. Regular bread is not the bread of life. By becoming sacramentally present through transubstantiation, Jesus gives us the ability to personally experience the incarnation of our God, “who humbled himself to share in our humanity” so that we could “share in the divinity of Christ”.

Through the Eucharist, we experience Christ’s body, blood, soul, and divinity in it’s entirety.

Since we are hylomorphic beings as opposed to pure spiritual beings like the angels, we experience life and God through both intellectual and physical realities. Because of this, we encounter God’s grace through both of these realities.

If we look to scripture, we can see many examples of Jesus administering Grace by physical means: physical touch, through the touching of His clothes, through water, through spit and mud rubbed on eyes, etc…

For us living after the Resurrection and Ascension of our Lord, we still experience God’s grace through the sacraments. The sacraments have both form and matter: baptism with water & anointing with oil, confirmation with oil, anointing with oil, confession through physically speaking our sins to a priest who is physically present in persona Christi who then physically speaks to us the words of absolution, and the Eucharist, where bread and wine are entirely changed in substance into the body, blood, soul, & divinity of Christ.

There is a beautiful element of mystery in the Eucharist that we should embrace not as a confusion, but as an opportunity for awe and wonder.

 

[stephenSTOSS1]

Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist. However, if one conflates physical with mortal, that would be wrong. A glorified body does not cease being physical. Furthermore, Jesus tells us that his body and blood are real food and real drink. There is no food that does not have an impact on the one who eats it. Aquinas tells us that the power and act of the substance of bread and wine is what we taste and see in the Eucharist, which is miraculously maintained by God, but it is not the substance of bread and wine. Is the power and act of a substance that is not there have a greater ability to physically affect us than does the power and act of the substance of what is actually there.

Quoting Pope Alexander, Aquinas writes, “Pope Alexander III, who says (Conc. Later. iii): ‘Since Christ is perfect God and perfect man, what foolhardiness have some to dare to affirm that Christ as man [body, blood, and soul —SML] is not a substance?’”[Summa, III, q. 76, a. 6] He also tells us, “since the substance of Christ’s body is not really deprived of its dimensive quantity and its other accidents, hence it comes that by reason of real concomitance the whole dimensive quantity of Christ’s body and all its other accidents are in this sacrament [SML note: and I would add (as Aquinas said earlier): and also retain the act and power of Jesus’ substance].”[Summa, III, q. 76, a. 4] He also says, “By the power of the sacrament there is contained under it, as to the species of the bread, not only the flesh, but the entire body of Christ, that is, the bones, the nerves, and the like,” [ibid., a. 1] in other words, all those things necessary to have a living body that radiates grace to those who become one body, one Spirit with him (1 Corinthians 6: 16-18; Ephesians 2: 17-19) in the Eucharist.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Towards the end of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, we find some additional guideposts to help our minds navigate the mystery of the Eucharist and what it means for us:

1. Then the Priest, with hands joined, says quietly:
   …
   Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God,
   who, by the will of the Father
   and the work of the Holy Spirit,
   through your Death gave life to the world,
   **free me by this, your most holy Body and Blood, **
   **from all my sins and from every evil; **
   **keep me always faithful to your commandments, **
   and never let me be parted from you.
   …
   Or:
   …
   May the receiving of your Body and Blood,
   Lord Jesus Christ,
   not bring me to judgment and condemnation,
   but through your loving mercy
   be for me protection in mind and body
   and a healing remedy.
2. The Priest genuflects, takes the host and, holding it slightly raised above the paten or above
   the chalice, while facing the people, says aloud:
   …
   Behold the Lamb of God,
   behold him who takes away the sins of the world.
   Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb.
   …
   And together with the people he adds once:
   …
   Lord, I am not worthy
   that you should enter under my roof,
   but only say the word
   and my soul shall be healed.
3. The Priest, facing the altar, says quietly:
   …
   May the Body of Christ
   keep me safe for eternal life.
   …
   And he reverently consumes the Body of Christ.
   Then he takes the chalice and says quietly:
   …
   May the Blood of Christ
   keep me safe for eternal life.

Jesus tells us that his body and blood are real food and real drink . There is no food that does not have an impact on the one who eats it. Aquinas tells us that the power and act of the substance of bread and wine is what we taste and see in the Eucharist, which is miraculously maintained by God, but it is not the substance of bread and wine. Is the power and act of a substance that is not there have a greater ability to physically affect us than does the power and act of the substance of what is actually there.

EXACTLY

The Roman Missal continues after Communion:

1. When the distribution of Communion is over, the Priest or a Deacon or an acolyte purifies
   the paten over the chalice and also the chalice itself.
   While he carries out the purification, the Priest says quietly:
   …
   What has passed our lips as food, O Lord,
   may we possess in purity of heart,
   that what has been given to us in time
   may be our healing for eternity.

On the incarnation of Christ:

“Christmas is not an event within history but is rather the invasion of time by eternity.”
(Hans Urs Von Balthasar).

Through the Eucharist, we who exist “in time” get to share in and tangibly experience this eternity.

 

[Richca]

Richca:

his substantial presence in the eucharist is outside or beyond the order of bodies in this world and what they can affect in their actions.

We often declare, before we receive, that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. Is that also a physical presence?

Whatever logic you use for that question, apply it to answering the OP’s question. It is outside or beyond the order of bodies in this world. Or perhaps, inside or within the order of this world.

I’m not to sure what your asking but whatever I already have said I have applied it to the OP’s post in some manner. The presence of Jesus’ body in heaven seated at the right hand of the Father is present in its physical and natural accidental extended mode of existing such as when he was on earth and such as our bodies are. The one and same body of Jesus in heaven is physically present in the eucharist all over the world in a different mode of existing, a supernatural and miraculous sacramental mode, than that same body is in heaven. It is present in the eucharist in a substantial mode of being or as if it is just substance unaffected by dimensive quantity or extension which places part outside part in space. A body is that which has the three dimensions and such are all the natural bodies in this world. But, Christ’s body in the eucharist is outside the order of dimensions and thus I said that it is outside the order of natural bodies in this world.