For WOF Evangelicals

[jfallaw]

I am a recovering Evangelical. One of the reasons I decided to quit the evangelical church is that I was taking the RHEMA correspondence course, and had to read all these books by Kenneth Hagin. Despite the fact that every pastor in my church was trained at RHEMA, it was not until reading the words of Dad Hagin himself that I realized what a messed up, demon deceived guy he was and what the church I attended really believed.

Anyways, he claims in one book that he was saved the third time he died and went to hell. He was on his way to hell again, where he had been twice before, though God told the devil to let him go each time. As he was descending the third time, he claims, he cried out to Jesus to save him, and he was born again and went back to his body.

Evangelicals and other protestants, and even Hagin, claim that if it’s not in the Bible, it’s from Satan. Will an evangelical please show me where the Bible says that we can be saved after death?

 

[believers]

I am a recovering Evangelical. One of the reasons I decided to quit the evangelical church is that I was taking the RHEMA correspondence course, and had to read all these books by Kenneth Hagin. Despite the fact that every pastor in my church was trained at RHEMA, it was not until reading the words of Dad Hagin himself that I realized what a messed up, demon deceived guy he was and what the church I attended really believed.

Anyways, he claims in one book that he was saved the third time he died and went to hell. He was on his way to hell again, where he had been twice before, though God told the devil to let him go each time. As he was descending the third time, he claims, he cried out to Jesus to save him, and he was born again and went back to his body.

Evangelicals and other protestants, and even Hagin, claim that if it’s not in the Bible, it’s from Satan. Will an evangelical please show me where the Bible says that we can be saved after death?

He didn’t die. He lived after that experience. Also, he said he was water baptized and the demons said that wasn’t good enough. His mom was praying for him. On his third time down, he got it right by calling on Jesus.

 

[jfallaw]

He didn’t die. He lived after that experience. Also, he said he was water baptized and the demons said that wasn’t good enough. His mom was praying for him. On his third time down, he got it right by calling on Jesus.

Well then he’s really a liar, because in the book he said he died. His heart stopped and he quit breathing. He says, “I have proof that I was actually dead. My eyes were set, my heart stopped beating, and my pulse had ceased. . .”

Kenneth Hagin claims he died and went to the “gates of Hell” and was saved after death. Jesus then sent him back to earth (again) because he had the important mission of spreading the “new revelation” about God and faith.

 

[believers]

Well then he’s really a liar, because in the book he said he died. His heart stopped and he quit breathing. He says, “I have proof that I was actually dead. My eyes were set, my heart stopped beating, and my pulse had ceased. . .”

Kenneth Hagin claims he died and went to the “gates of Hell” and was saved after death. Jesus then sent him back to earth (again) because he had the important mission of spreading the “new revelation” about God and faith.

You’re missing the point. He was dead for a moment but he came back. He lived through the experience to tell about it. He left his body 3 times but God let him live. How difficult is that to understand?

This is an interesting thread because it’s similar to the “Near Death Experience” thread that was just recently started. I posted the site spiritlessons.com.

 

[Allweather]

Hagin is dead now for sure, though, isn’t he?

 

[jfallaw]

You’re missing the point. He was dead for a moment but he came back. He lived through the experience to tell about it. He left his body 3 times but God let him live. How difficult is that to understand?

This is an interesting thread because it’s similar to the “Near Death Experience” thread that was just recently started. I posted the site spiritlessons.com.

No, I’m not missinf the point. I don’t care if he came back, the point is that he claims he got saved AFTER he died. Whether God chose to send him back, three times, or why God let him die three times if he was just gonna send him back, doesn’t matter. The fact is he teaches Godless, unbiblical **** and alot of poor saps believe it, because it’s easier to believe that God wants us to be able to command Him to heal us and make us rich and save our sorry butts no matter what even if we “repent” at the very gates of hell.

 

[believers]

No, I’m not missinf the point. I don’t care if he came back, the point is that he claims he got saved AFTER he died. Whether God chose to send him back, three times, or why God let him die three times if he was just gonna send him back, doesn’t matter. The fact is he teaches Godless, unbiblical **** and alot of poor saps believe it, because it’s easier to believe that God wants us to be able to command Him to heal us and make us rich and save our sorry butts no matter what even if we “repent” at the very gates of hell.

Kenneth Hagin had a near death experience and went to hell 3 times. He claimed he was water baptized but the demons laughed at him. On his last trip he called out to Jesus and was saved from hell.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

See video

 

[believers]

Hagin is dead now for sure, though, isn’t he?

He was 86 when he departed in 2003.

 

[jfallaw]

Kenneth Hagin had a near death experience and went to hell 3 times. He claimed he was water baptized but the demons laughed at him. On his last trip he called out to Jesus and was saved from hell.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

See video

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

Ok, you really don’t seem to get the point. Protestants love thinking that they can be as sinful as they want and then do the old presto-chango deathbed conversion and go happily to heaven, so that discussion will get nowhere.

 

[believers]

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

It is very arrogant for you to use these verses as if they can’t apply to you.

Ok, you really don’t seem to get the point. Protestants love thinking that they can be as sinful as they want and then do the old presto-chango deathbed conversion and go happily to heaven, so that discussion will get nowhere.

That’s false. A true born-again experience is spiritual. It begins with complete faith on Jesus Christ and a repentance from sin. Growing in faith from the Word of God.

Did you get that? That just came from a WOF evangelical. Did I say you can just go sin and turn on your deathbed? Your claim is false.

 

[jfallaw]

It is very arrogant for you to use these verses as if they can’t apply to you.

No, I don’t say it that way. Of course they apply to me too. That’s why I actually DO something for Jesus instead of demand that He make me rich.

That’s false. A true born-again experience is spiritual. It begins with complete faith on Jesus Christ and a repentance from sin. Growing in faith from the Word of God.

Did you get that? That just came from a WOF evangelical. Did I say you can just go sin and turn on your deathbed? Your claim is false.

I never asked your opinion of what it means to be born again. I asked why the founder of your sect claimed that he was “born again” in Hell?

 

[JesseW]

Wow, that sure makes me proud to say I’m an evangelical! It sounds like nonsense to me. It’s always dangerous to define a movement by the conduct of individuals.

Ok, you really don’t seem to get the point. Protestants love thinking that they can be as sinful as they want and then do the old presto-chango deathbed conversion and go happily to heaven, so that discussion will get nowhere.

Please be careful with generalizations. I was stuck at my cousin’s bachelor party as Designated Driver because I didn’t want to partake and I was concerned for their safety. Two of the other groomsmen told me, “You look bored- you sure must be religious not drinking tonight. That’s why we’re Catholic, so we can do whatever we want and still go to Mass and Confession.”

I’m pretty sure this statement cannot be found in the Catholic Catechism. Neither is fire insurance for the true Protestant believer.

 

[JesseW]

Let me just add that WOF Evangelicals have strayed from the teachings of the Scripture and make claims that are not theirs to make. Faith healing as just ONE example. To demand healing or blame God’s lack of response attempts to elevate one to a status higher than God. That person is trying to deny God His soreignty in any given situation. Whether a person is healed or not is up to God and a lack of divine healing may be bringing on a purpose with much grander results than the healing would have. Sometimes it takes more faith to accept God’s apparent inaction, especially when it is the health of a loved one at stake.

Please remove WOF Evangelicals to the radical fringe of normal evangelicals (if not well beyond it) in your minds- you would be doing us a tremendous favor by doing so.

 

[believers]

No, I don’t say it that way. Of course they apply to me too. That’s why I actually DO something for Jesus instead of demand that He make me rich.

I never asked your opinion of what it means to be born again. I asked why the founder of your sect claimed that he was “born again” in Hell?

I’ve already answered your question.

Act 2:21 **And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. **

Kenneth Hagin is the “whosoever” in this verse. Apparently, God means it when He says whosoever.

 

[Harpazo]

Kenneth Hagin had a near death experience and went to hell 3 times. He claimed he was water baptized but the demons laughed at him. On his last trip he called out to Jesus and was saved from hell.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ay…And people call Catholics crazy for the apparitions at Fatima…

So can demons be saved or can they repent? After all if Hagin can do it, why not the demons that have been there the longest? I mean, they have seniority and everything right?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[believers]

Let me just add that WOF Evangelicals have strayed from the teachings of the Scripture and make claims that are not theirs to make. Faith healing as just ONE example. To demand healing or blame God’s lack of response attempts to elevate one to a status higher than God. That person is trying to deny God His soreignty in any given situation. Whether a person is healed or not is up to God and a lack of divine healing may be bringing on a purpose with much grander results than the healing would have. Sometimes it takes more faith to accept God’s apparent inaction, especially when it is the health of a loved one at stake.

Please remove WOF Evangelicals to the radical fringe of normal evangelicals (if not well beyond it) in your minds- you would be doing us a tremendous favor by doing so.

You’re wrong. You can’t argue with testimony.

There’s a guy in my church that was healed of blindness. Another guy in my church suffered an injury to the head in a logging accident that crushed part of his skull. He received a complete healing from his fractured skull when he was prayed over. There’s another healed of cancer.

Here’s a video of one of our church members who died and went to hell if you care to watch.

 

[believers]

Ay…And people call Catholics crazy for the apparitions at Fatima…

So can demons be saved or can they repent? After all if Hagin can do it, why not the demons that have been there the longest? I mean, they have seniority and everything right?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Demons can’t repent. They’ve already been judged.

 

[jfallaw]

Wow, that sure makes me proud to say I’m an evangelical! It sounds like nonsense to me. It’s always dangerous to define a movement by the conduct of individuals.

Please be careful with generalizations. I was stuck at my cousin’s bachelor party as Designated Driver because I didn’t want to partake and I was concerned for their safety. Two of the other groomsmen told me, “You look bored- you sure must be religious not drinking tonight. That’s why we’re Catholic, so we can do whatever we want and still go to Mass and Confession.”

I’m pretty sure this statement cannot be found in the Catholic Catechism. Neither is fire insurance for the true Protestant believer.

Any Catholic who told you that is misled and not a true Catholic. The Church does not teach that and people who believe contrary to the church’s teachings are called heretics, just like protestants.

 

[BlestOne]

Any Catholic who told you that is misled and not a true Catholic. The Church does not teach that and people who believe contrary to the church’s teachings are called heretics, just like protestants.

I think the poster made it up… In all my 44 yrs and all my travels, I have never heard a Catholic say or believe that… however, I have heard lots of Protestants say Catholics believe this… Therefore, I don’t believe a word of it!!!

 

[jfallaw]

Ay…And people call Catholics crazy for the apparitions at Fatima…

So can demons be saved or can they repent? After all if Hagin can do it, why not the demons that have been there the longest? I mean, they have seniority and everything right?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Thank you, that’s the point I was trying to get at. Hard for even an evangelical to take that verse to mean even after death. So the rich man Dives should have been able to just call on the Name of the Lord instead of ask Lazarus to give him some water. Would have “saved” him and taken him up to Abraham’s bosom, right?