Forbidden prayers for laypeople

[Sbee0]

For example, prayers over the rite of exorcism, the formal excommunication rite, and the Eucharistic prayer (and there are others). I see warnings that these are only to be prayed by a priest and a layperson must never attempt to use these prayers.

Not that there is any good reason why a layperson would do it but what would happen if you do anyway? I would imagine incurring grave sin (sacrilege?) at least for disobeying the Church but are there any other consequences?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Laypeople don’t pray exorcism prayers because we can be subject to demonic attack or possession if we speak with demons directly.
We are allowed to pray to God (and for the intercession of Blessed Mother, St. Joseph, St. Michael, St. Benedict etc, ) asking God to drive the demons away.
We are not permitted to command or engage with the demon ourselves, it’s too dangerous. Only the priest is permitted to do that; his special training and faculties as a priest make it permissible for him.

 

[LML]

For example, … the Eucharistic prayer …

At Mass, the priest may offer the Eucharistic Prayer, but it is acceptable and important that the faithful join in on those prayers. So to say it is forbidden is not an accurate statement.

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

For example, … the Eucharistic prayer …

At Mass, the priest may offer the Eucharistic Prayer, but it is acceptable and important that the faithful join in on those prayers. So to say it is forbidden is not an accurate statement.

Only in certain parts that are for the responses. A layperson cannot say the main part of the prayer and consecrate the host into the Body of Christ, for example.

 

[LML]

Only in certain parts that are for the responses.

You mean as the priest prays the consecration you do not mentally join in, in the calling of God to turn the bread and wine into the real presence of the body and blood of Christ? I pray for the mystery of Transubstantiation as the priest invokes it.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I can appreciate the personal piety behind this, but the prayer of the priest is all that is needed to effect the consecration of the Body and Blood. There is no need to pray that this miracle take place; the priest’s words are sufficient. We cannot add anything to this.

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

Only in certain parts that are for the responses.

You mean as the priest prays the consecration you do not mentally join in, in the calling of God to turn the bread and wine into the real presence of the body and blood of Christ? I pray for the mystery of Transubstantiation as the priest invokes it.

Sure, but we have no authority to consecrate the host and wine into the Body and Blood ourselves. That prayer, supplemented by responses from the faithful, is solely for the priest

 

[LML]

We cannot add anything to this.

Except that Mass is a communal event…otherwise the precept of obligatory attendance would be for Priests and not the faithful…we are all participants in the Mass.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Let the priest consecrate the Host and just say “My Lord and My God” when he lifts it for us to worship.

 

[poche]

Also you are forbidden to pray to the devil.

 

[PetraG]

Only in certain parts that are for the responses. A layperson cannot say the main part of the prayer and consecrate the host into the Body of Christ, for example.

You’re not supposed to be joining in with saying it out loud, true.
Just to clarify, though: we had better be praying it.
Look at the wording: “we” ask, “we” offer, “we” pray, “we” hope
Through the priest, Christ offers what we need to offer but cannot offer on our own because of our utter poverty when we are not joined to him. When we are joined to him, however, we become part of His sacrifice. We cannot hold ourselves out of that, because by the grace of baptism we are made part of the sacrifice Christ is making.

“We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life… For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection. We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin.” Rom. 5:4-6

 

[Gorgias]

Except that Mass is a communal event…otherwise the precept of obligatory attendance would be for Priests and not the faithful…we are all participants in the Mass.

Sure, but an NFL game is a communal event, too. And, we all participate – each in the way proper to his role. So, I cheer, and Roethlisberger throws TD passes. I don’t attempt to call plays or execute them, though.

 

[LML]

I don’t attempt to call plays or execute them, though.

praying along is hardly an “attempt to call plays” and is really an offensive, almost sacrilegious analogy, but point taken…even if not pretty.

 

[Gorgias]

praying along is hardly an “attempt to call plays” and is really an offensive, almost sacrilegious analogy

I agree. “Praying along” with the priest – that is, taking his role and making it our own, while abandoning our own personal role – is offensive and almost sacrilegious!

(But sure… even though it’s an imperfect and jarring analogy, it kinda reflects what appears to be going on, when some pray the institution narrative along with the priest. (And, in my experience, it has its own accompanying hand gestures.) As such, it really is an attempt to blur the distinction between ‘ministerial priest’ and ‘layperson in the pew’.)

 

[Mary888]

I have read the forbidden molitfa prayers of St. Basil the Great for myself and some other family members we used to argue a lot between ourselves with no purpose. People said in the prayers experienced a freedom in choices and a spiritual lift. The devil did not challenge me worse in my dreams than usual.
I read it because my local church sites published it and if it is public than the church thinks is okay for us to read those.
One strange thing. After reading it, for the first time in my life since he has been, without any challenge of mine, haunting me, I felt sorry for the devil. Otherwise the pain he put me through made me straight hating him and that pain felt real and intense.
Of course after a while the sorrow came back lashing at me in form of acrimony against God. Still feel it. My faith has been stabbed but I regret nothing because other people than myself for whom I read those prayers experienced relief. And they are close family members.
Is it as tragic as some say it is? Maybe not. At least not for me, I had my share of horror images in conscious time to not be lost by them in dreams. But… is it without consequence? Not so. You have to continue to love.
Just sharing my experience not teaching anyone else what to do.

 

[LML]

I agree. “Praying along” with the priest – that is, taking his role and making it our own, while abandoning our own personal role – is offensive and almost sacrilegious!

I guess turning our backs, or taking a restroom break is more reverent? Odd.

 

[Gorgias]

I guess turning our backs, or taking a restroom break is more reverent? Odd.

Yes, I agree. That is an odd non sequitur, @LML.

“Turning our backs”? What does that mean? (Or are you referencing the ‘ad orientem’ posture?)

Restroom break? Where’d that come from?

 

[LML]

Restroom break? Where’d that come from?

Was using your painful football analogy thinking it would be helpful to you, about when replays are being reviewed by referees…you seemed to be fond of it.

 

[Gorgias]

Was using your painful football analogy thinking it would be helpful to you, about when replays are being reviewed by referees…you seemed to be fond of it.

LOL!

OK, so… non sequitur. Got it.

Still doesn’t address the question at hand – that of laity assuming the roles of priest celebrants, since you “seemed to be fond of that”.

 

[TechieGuy]

Laypeople don’t pray exorcism prayers because we can be subject to demonic attack or possession if we speak with demons directly.

Even folks who only see secular entertainment like “Buffy…” should be able to figure that one out!

Untrained messing with demons is never a good idea