Forbidding priests to marry

[ffg]

The Church being the bride of Christ, a priest marries the Church.

So the question isn’t ‘why not’ as much as ‘who does a priest marry’ - A) the Church.

There are exceptions with some converts who are already married, as mentioned.

From A logical perspective, a priest is not simply the minister seen at service times. They are on call 24/7 for all the events that happen in the life of their flock. The sacrament of the sick and visiting the flock takes up the time between scheduled services.

So other than the fact that the priest is making the vow by choice, it’s not a 40 hour work week, it’s a 168 hour work week.

If I was a woman seeking a man, I would not want to have a priest for a husband, the work schedule is the opposite of ideal for developing and nurturing a relationship and family.

Take care,

Mike

 

[Wesrock]

From what I’ve read, R. Catholic priests used to be able to marry. At one point the rule was changed. The thing that bothers me, though, is it looks as if there was probably a bureaucratic/administrative reason to make the change but the Church leaders reinterpreted scripture to justify the rule change. Almost like they engaged in revisionist history.

‘We used to think it was o.k. But now, we have been presented with divinely revealed truth that says it’s not o.k.’

Which makes me wonder–was the revealed truth wrong prior?

It’s this sort of logic game that is the most difficult part of the Catholic faith for me to accept. Regardless of whether or not the Magistgerium has made a determination, I don’t always trust that it’s correct.

It comes down to what I’ve learned about the secular court system. The party who wins the suit isn’t always the one that’s right. The party who wins the suit is the one with the better lawyers. I believe that’s the case with the Vatican as well.

Celibacy, especially in the priesthood, was always highly respected, even today in the Eastern rites where priests can still enter it married. The church recognized the truth about what Paul said – that marriage can lead to concerns about worldly things such as wives and children and inheritance, and such things can be problematic. I don’t think the church responding to such problems is incorrect.

I think a celibate priesthood is better – though not necessary (as a discipline). If the church thinks having married priests problematic, I’ll trust their judgment. If the Church decides to open the priesthood up to married men again to meet the church’s current needs, I’d accept that, too.

But again, I think a key point is that while the ministerial priesthood hasn’t always required celibacy, celibacy (in general) has always been a very honored and respected tradition, going back to the early church and is unquestionably biblical. Cherishing celibacy itself wasn’t a later development. It’s also wrong to say that a celibate priesthood is an infallible and divinely revealed dogma. It’s not. It’s just church law.

 

[feed_me]

The Church being the bride of Christ, a priest marries the Church.

So the question isn’t ‘why not’ as much as ‘who does a priest marry’ - A) the Church.

There are exceptions with some converts who are already married, as mentioned.

From A logical perspective, a priest is not simply the minister seen at service times. They are on call 24/7 for all the events that happen in the life of their flock. The sacrament of the sick and visiting the flock takes up the time between scheduled services.

So other than the fact that the priest is making the vow by choice, it’s not a 40 hour work week, it’s a 168 hour work week.

If I was a woman seeking a man, I would not want to have a priest for a husband, the work schedule is the opposite of ideal for developing and nurturing a relationship and family.

Take care,

Mike

And you think marrying a doctor would be any different if he is on call 24/7. Or how about marrying a consultant who by the way I personally know who is on call 24/7 and can be around the world in an instant, bassically come home at 10pm and be called in to leave for Southeast asia 2 hours later for a job and not come home again for a month or longer and never got time for family.

 

[cmodrmac]

Who is striving for Bishop? I didn’t think Protestants believe in a hierarchy. Can you please explain?

our Church has a hierarchy with Canons -Bishops and archbishops as well as Primates ( head of a national Church) in the USA we have a Presiding Bishop-the Archbishop of Canterbury the Primate of the Church of England is first among equals

Methodist and Lutherans have Bishops as well and a Presiding Bishop

surprised you were not aware of that

 

[ffg]

And you think marrying a doctor would be any different if he is on call 24/7. Or how about marrying a consultant who by the way I personally know who is on call 24/7 and can be around the world in an instant, bassically come home at 10pm and be called in to leave for Southeast asia 2 hours later for a job and not come home again for a month or longer and never got time for family.

The question was about the priesthood, which would be where my comment was focussed.

If you are curious about my opinion on something other than the subject, best to ask. Not tell me what I think.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[feed_me]

The question was about the priesthood, which would be where my comment was focussed.

If you are curious about my opinion on something other than the subject, best to ask. Not tell me what I think.

Thanks,

Mike

Making a point that it shouldnt matter who you marry or what they do, you will have obsticals either way for you ro overcome.

 

[GEddie]

And you think marrying a doctor would be any different if he is on call 24/7. Or how about marrying a consultant who by the way I personally know who is on call 24/7 and can be around the world in an instant, bassically come home at 10pm and be called in to leave for Southeast asia 2 hours later for a job and not come home again for a month or longer and never got time for family.

Doctors are normally not on call 24-7, and if someone not a doctor has that kind of a life, arguably he has workaholic issues.

In any case, you’d have a point, if formation into the priesthood should ever become as competitive as into medical school.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[feed_me]

Doctors are normally not on call 24-7, and if someone not a doctor has that kind of a life, arguably he has workaholic issues.

In any case, you’d have a point, if formation into the priesthood should ever become as competitive as into medical school.

ICXC NIKA.

Its not a workaholic issue with him because of what he does for work.

 

[rcwitness]

Doctors are normally not on call 24-7, and if someone not a doctor has that kind of a life, arguably he has workaholic issues.

In any case, you’d have a point, if formation into the priesthood should ever become as competitive as into medical school.

ICXC NIKA.

It’s a world apart from doctor to priest. Though there is much in common.

My pastor was a doctor, then felt called to become a priest.

A priest is a higher call than any other profession, and even marriage to a wife (I believe).

A doctor’s duties are no doubt very demanding. He also will receive good income for providing for his family. I know it may not be that way in some countries, but I don’t think many places make their doctors subject to where the medical hierarchy sees fit.

It also comes down to the Church having the ability to send her ministers to where there is need. This isn’t meant to diminish the sacrifices of demanding professions.

 

[KathleenGee]

And we cannot forget those from times past to now whose only desire is Christ and want to give their entire lives to His kingdom.

Celibacy is a discipline that was first brought up for discussion by Spanish clergy in the 300’s.

Yes, priests married…and then they also had affairs…and in time mandatory celibacy was made a Latin church discipline. For a priest, it is not about sex…it is about not being able to share one’s life with his wife and to provide for her…it is an initial sacrifice, but as one priest said, after ordination this is quickly forgotten because priests are being invited to dinner all the time…and I have been told that after they have a long day serving the Lord and others…they just want to be alone and crash.

I had a friend who was staying at this rectory until he got settled. Our pastor came up the stairs at the end of the day. I peaked out and saw him go into the chapel and got on his knees so close to the tabernacle and bent down his head in prayer.

I know of several married clergy who converted to Catholicism, were allowed to be Catholic priests as married…but saw it very difficult. And some Orthodox priests told an old Jesuit friend of mine that at times they feel like they are juggling two different lifestyles.

So whoever is having the call to the priesthood must also discern where the Lord is leading him.

 

[feed_me]

Celebacy doesnt prevent affairs either. A polish priest just got fired for coming out as gay and having a partner.

 

[ffg]

Making a point that it shouldnt matter who you marry or what they do, you will have obsticals either way for you ro overcome.

Which shows you missed the key point of my post.

You ignored or didn’t understand the first two lines.

Though I haven’t analyzed your argument because it is not related to the thread, it’s possible I disagree with your premise and argument in a similar fashion as above.

Take care,

Mike

 

[ffg]

Celebacy doesnt prevent affairs either. A polish priest just got fired for coming out as gay and having a partner.

I agree with this, though I might phrase it in some fashion where ‘nobody is immune to sin’.

I’ve been thinking about your earlier premise, I think I can keep it somewhat on point here and strengthen the Church’s teaching on the subject.

So you were relating the priesthood to busy jobs.

So I backed up a bit to consider - what can we relate becoming a priest to?

1. getting a job
   or
2. becoming a husband

I think it more relates to #2

Through the sacrament, In becoming a husband, you have responsibilities to your wife and children.

In the same way through the sacrament, in becoming a priest you have responsibilities to the Church (bride) and flock.

So, if the similar comparative is ‘becoming a husband’, we might easier see why the Church has such a teaching.

The Church would look at a priest getting married, as marrying twice.

Take care,

Mike

 

[SyroMalankara]

Why is this always directed to Catholics? I know at least 1 protestant sect that prefer singles to be bishop and a few that refuse to allow singles to be minister.

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church has never universally restricted married men from being ordained, nor has she forbidden marriage. Some choose to become nuns, why do some protestants refuse people from remaining celibate? (In addition, there are protestant nuns, for example Anglican/Episcopalians, Nordic/European Lutherans, Marthoma (OrientalRite Anglicans), and others.

 

[rcwitness]

Why is this always directed to Catholics? I know at least 1 protestant sect that prefer singles to be bishop and a few that refuse to allow singles to be minister.

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church has never universally restricted married men from being ordained, nor has she forbidden marriage. Some choose to become nuns, why do some protestants refuse people from remaining celibate? (In addition, there are protestant nuns, for example Anglican/Episcopalians, Nordic/European Lutherans, Marthoma (OrientalRite Anglicans), and others.

Yes, it is very rare for a protestant pastor to be single. Most do not prefer it. Yet Paul Teaches it is the better choice, if one is able to have self control.

 

[rinnie]

Why does the roman catholic religion forbid its priests and nuns from being married? Do other non-Catholic religions observe this?
Thank you!

Simple, if you are called by God to become a Priest and not marry you join the Roman Order. IF you feel you are called to marry and serve God you join that order.

As Saint Paul said it is better to only serve God, for if a man serves God and a Wife he has a divided heart.

 

[Duane1966]

Simple, if you are called by God to become a Priest and not marry you join the Roman Order. IF you feel you are called to marry and serve God you join that order.

As Saint Paul said it is better to only serve God, for if a man serves God and a Wife he has a divided heart.

Not only St. Paul, but Jesus also:

12Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others;** some, because they have renounced marriage* for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.** Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.”

 

[KathleenGee]

I don’t think the Latin rite will ever leave celibacy.

My bishop asked all of us to pray for this upcoming Synod and the pope said right at the beginning that Catholic Christian marriage is permanent.

The work of the Latin priest is quite heavy compared to those who are allowed marriage in the Eastern Orthodox and have heard comments as such coming out of former married clergy who were protestant but now allowed to become priests in the Church retaining their marriages.

 

[feed_me]

I don’t think the Latin rite will ever leave celibacy.

My bishop asked all of us to pray for this upcoming Synod and the pope said right at the beginning that Catholic Christian marriage is permanent.

The work of the Latin priest is quite heavy compared to those who are allowed marriage in the Eastern Orthodox and have heard comments as such coming out of former married clergy who were protestant but now allowed to become priests in the Church retaining their marriages.

Because from my knowledge and correct me if im wrong, but the Church is not getting enough people to answer the call which burdens the other priests with more duties then they can handle.

 

[ffg]

Because from my knowledge and correct me if im wrong, but the Church is not getting enough people to answer the call which burdens the other priests with more duties then they can handle.

I did a little hunting yesterday for some statistics. I’ve known maybe 2 converted married priests, I’ve known of maybe 2 more.

Was trying to find some statistics, but ran into a really odd website which I am not going to link to because it is off the deep end.

Some guy using Holy Orders as his money making venture, was ordained, then quit. Then got married, now is calling himself father XXXX and selling his services as a priest for weddings and other services.

His statistics for married quit priests (ex-priests?) was quite favorable for the ‘low population’ argument in that if / when the church allows his type into the fold, it would be 30% increase in priests.

I highly doubt that statistic.

He thinks the day is coming because of the converted, married priests. But just like the agenda’s of other types of social change, it’s not like he is aligned with the church’s teachings on everything except priest marriage. He is marrying divorced folks who don’t want to go through an annulment process, etc., selling it as a Catholic wedding.

I think today vs 20 years ago, seminary population is quite favorable. Also a shortage of priests sometimes might be caused by a boom in converts, which is a good thing.

I have been to and helped get priests to folks in the middle of nowhere, where Mass comes to them maybe once a year. But I think we’ll find that to be the case in various locations through the world, always.

What priests need more of is not necessarily more priests, but more lay people stepping up and filling roles.

Take care,

Mike