L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Redirected from this thread and starting off from this post:
I’ll be addressing this in the next post.
- Status
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Yeah, for our sakes. Now for who’s sake am I putting up with that pseudo-racist moron? Nobody. I’m just shutting up because he’s as big as his own mouth and I don’t wanna cause unneeded drama. I’m not exactly popular where I hang out.
Don’t think I don’t wish I could find a way to put him in his place though.
I couldn’t care less about his heart.
Only he can change that. I just so badly want him to keep it to himself. I don’t talk about the love of Christianity or the contributions of America so where does he get off spouting how he was glad JP2 died or that, if he had his way, he’d have every single American killed?At least if I had the means to knock him off his high horse, that would plug his trap. I’ll take that one change in his behavior over none at all (which is what pacifism has all but brought me).
He doesn’t bully me directly but the things he says are just so bloody insensitive and repulsive, it’s not funny. Besides, I know at least one other person who thinks he’s a jerk. This same guy is also pretty much a green joker himself so that says a lot.
Others just couldn’t care less about what he says. The point is though, there is no reduction. People don’t see him as a bully and even if they did, they can’t do much since he also seems blatantly proud of his own little criminal record of violence and all the fat macho nonsense. He says his filth and he gets away with it (or worse, might even convince others since I’m not exactly surrounded with a well-informed crowd).
If God’s so intent in proving me wrong about pacifism, He’d have hit that guy in the coconut a long time ago without my prayers. As far as what I’ve experienced though, it’s always been the complete opposite. People have only started treating me with respect only after they saw that I too draw the line and that I am NOT a rug to be stepped on.
J
JRKH
Guest
Thanks for starting the new thread.
We had a bad night last night at our house, so I will not respond right away.
I’d like to get a few more views first.
Peace
James
We had a bad night last night at our house, so I will not respond right away.
I’d like to get a few more views first.
Peace
James
K
kinja
Guest
You should care about his heart else how are you doing the work of God if you don’t. Being christian means that life is not about you and what you can get out of it. It’s about serving God and being all about what God wants. If the Holy Spirit inspires you to strike him then so be it. If your retaliation is based on your own selfish desires or vices and pride then it is wrong automatically.I couldn’t care less about his heart.
God has given you His word and He speaks to you everyday through circumstances in your life (probably even this forum). Why would He need to go further to whisper what to do in your ears? “Let He who has ears hear” comes to mind. It is interesting that you draw a relation between peoples’ apparent “respect” for you and your aggressive/retaliatory behaviour. Psychologists was based on a biography of Adolf Hitler it was found that Hitler’s (part Jewish) father’s abuse of him is one of the reasons for him being so obsessed with control and power and his hatred for Jews. He also did not like being stepped on and the day he decided he would not take anymore was the day a monster began to grow in him.
You should think about that.
As an aside, there is a course called Original Pain Therapy that would be very good for everyone to take. It addresses the needs of the child in each of us that was not met when we were babies and todlers and how these unfulfilled needs influence many negative bahaviour we exhibit as adults.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
I find it it amusing that you consider selfish desires, pride, or vices and the will of the Holy Spirit/God to be contradictory (in cases like this of all things).
Why do you think I find him repulsive? He insults my religion, insults me, and thinks he’s better than everyone else. I think hoping for a shiny light to knock him off his horse is quite childish, wishful thinking when it seems more logical to be the one doing the knocking.No thanks. Maybe you should think about how Neville Chamberlain’s spineless pacifism failed to stop the Nazis. Even Churchill said that despite the man’s well-meaning intentions, he was blinded by his pacifism to the threat that Hitler posed.
K
kinja
Guest
If you don’t find selfish (satanic actually) desires to be opposed to God then I can’t help you. Wisdom dictates a better course of action than childish tit for tats. Its childish and immature to respond to anyone trying to offend you with offense. Have you no self control? It takes the bigger man to hold his tongue and stay his fist when provoked. God does not need you and your fists to defend Him or His church He needs you to do the right thing. Aggression does not convert hearts to Christ Jesus only faith, hope and LOVE.I find it it amusing that you consider selfish desires, pride, or vices and the will of the Holy Spirit/God to be contradictory (in cases like this of all things).
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Now you’re just being contradictory. I thought you said that should the “Holy Spirit want me to strike him, then so be it”?
This isn’t childish tit for tats or some schoolyard scuffle. This is downright religious and racist discrimination (“nationality different from race”? Please spare me! ) I can take petty teasings and jokes (I got a sense of humor) but know that I draw a line and this fatso has crossed it waaay too many times for comfort.He is so lucky I’m not telekinetic.
On the contrary, I’ve found it to be quite a nasty wake up call to those thinking they’re king of the world or something.
M
Michaeljc4
Guest
Lost Wanderer,
First, let me say that I am sorry this person is getting you so (rightfully) upset. It sounds like this individual is very unpleasant (which may be an understatement).
Second, ask yourself what the consequences would be of popping this man one right in the mouth. You may feel better. You may shut him up for a time. But, ultimately, what have you done? You have added physical violence to a situation where there is already a lot of negative energy (his vile words, your negative emotions and anger). Adding more violence to this cycle will almost certainly result in more violence, not less.
Third, what can you do if hitting him–or even cursing him out–isn’t a good option? I suggest three possible courses of action. One, just avoid him. Stay away from him, or–if you have no choice but to see him–tune him out completely. Hard, but possible. Or, you could just pray for him. I know, I know: frustrating, seemingly futile, passive. This man’s behavior is not in your control. Give it to God. Lastly, you could try to reason with him, all while understanding that you may not be able to change him. Calm, polite, gentle discussion BUT know that you might not be able to convince him of anything.
Violence sucks. If this man were to physically attack you, I’d say “Knock him out!” I am not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. At the same time, words–as irritating and exasperating as they may be–are just that: words. Respond with words. Respond with prayer. Respond with avoidance. But don’t respond with violence. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, which is the hardest teaching to follow. I don’t know the situation as well as you do, obviously, but I feel pity for this sad, hate-filled person. Perhaps you do, too.
Gandhi called his nonviolence “experiments with truth.” Perhaps you can try some of the experiments I suggested above. See what happens. In the worst case scenario, the guy will try to knock your block off (and you are well within your rights to defend yourself). In the best case scenario, you may change this person’s heart. You won’t know until you try. Trust God and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Or, you can just change the mental channel. I’ve had to do that myself. It’s hard…but you’d be surprised how quickly it works.
I hope this helps.
Michael
First, let me say that I am sorry this person is getting you so (rightfully) upset. It sounds like this individual is very unpleasant (which may be an understatement).
Second, ask yourself what the consequences would be of popping this man one right in the mouth. You may feel better. You may shut him up for a time. But, ultimately, what have you done? You have added physical violence to a situation where there is already a lot of negative energy (his vile words, your negative emotions and anger). Adding more violence to this cycle will almost certainly result in more violence, not less.
Third, what can you do if hitting him–or even cursing him out–isn’t a good option? I suggest three possible courses of action. One, just avoid him. Stay away from him, or–if you have no choice but to see him–tune him out completely. Hard, but possible. Or, you could just pray for him. I know, I know: frustrating, seemingly futile, passive. This man’s behavior is not in your control. Give it to God. Lastly, you could try to reason with him, all while understanding that you may not be able to change him. Calm, polite, gentle discussion BUT know that you might not be able to convince him of anything.
Violence sucks. If this man were to physically attack you, I’d say “Knock him out!” I am not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. At the same time, words–as irritating and exasperating as they may be–are just that: words. Respond with words. Respond with prayer. Respond with avoidance. But don’t respond with violence. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, which is the hardest teaching to follow. I don’t know the situation as well as you do, obviously, but I feel pity for this sad, hate-filled person. Perhaps you do, too.
Gandhi called his nonviolence “experiments with truth.” Perhaps you can try some of the experiments I suggested above. See what happens. In the worst case scenario, the guy will try to knock your block off (and you are well within your rights to defend yourself). In the best case scenario, you may change this person’s heart. You won’t know until you try. Trust God and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Or, you can just change the mental channel. I’ve had to do that myself. It’s hard…but you’d be surprised how quickly it works.
I hope this helps.
Michael
J
JRKH
Guest
Yes, you bring up a good point here - though I’d leave out the term “Spineless”. One does not get to be “Prime minster” of a Global Power (which Britain was at the time) by being “spineless”.
The decision at Munich was a disaster, but when one looks at the things that led up to the second world war one can see many instances where the application of True Christian values and virtues could have prevented any need for a “Munich agreement” in the first place. For that matter, the application of Christian principles could have prevent Hitler from ever coming to power.
Neville Chamberlain’s decision to go to Munich and to sign the agreement was built, not on his personal lack of will, but on the desires of the peoples of England and France to avoid another bloodbath. They Knew - The Saw, what had happened a scant 20 plus years earlier with the trench warfare of WW I. No one wanted to go through that again.
I have a book which opens with a discription of the train bringing the German emmisaries through the Allied lines in November 1918 to sign the cease fire. The opening paragraph ends with this ominous phrase. “World War I was ending. World War II was beginning.”
You are fond of talking about how “violence” ended the reign of the Nazi’s and defeated Japan. All very true if one wishes to start their studies with the wars themselves without looking at the conditions that made the world “ripe” for war.
Germany, as the only defeated nation still standing was made, by the greedy winners at Versailles, to bear the entire blame and entire cost for the war just ended. She had NO say in the matter. The terms were not “negotiated” they were presented as a “fiat accompli” and her representatives were told, not invited, to accept them.
The result?? Germany was hampered with a debt that she could never recover from.
How could she rebuild her industries and properly care for her population under such conditions. How could she properly rebuild her national honor when she had been saddled by the world with the entire blame for the war that was the fault of many many poorly thought out policies by ALL of the European countires?
Germany was made to bear this all by herself. Then later, during the great depression, when she could not make her reparations payements, and her own population was struggling just to survive, the French occupied the Ruhr, the industrial heart of Germany, which was their right under the Long discredited Versialles Treaty, but which also had the effect of tossing many thousands of Germans out of work and set the stage for Hitler’s rise to power.
Compare this treatment of Germany after WW I to the treatment given Germany and Japan after the second world war. The West, particulary America poured money into rebuilding these countries, and getting them back on their feet. As a result, today they are our firends, our allies and major trading partners with those who were their enemies.
If the Treaty signed after WW I, and policies that flowed inevitably from that treaty, had been one based on Christian forgiveness and forebearance there would never have even BEEN a WW II, at least not in the way it unfolded. Hitler’s rise depended on the oppression and disaffection felt by the Germans. It depended on the desperation brought on by the depression, which itself was the result of greed. Without this undercurrent of hate, fear and disappointment, Hitler would have been unable to get any traction for his movement. He would have lived nad dies in either complete or relative obsucrity.
Hate will be met with hate. You are a good example of this principle. When the Person you describe taunts you and your religion etc, your response is to wish him harm instead of praying for his soul. I don’t say that you should not respond in diefence of your person, or your faith, or your nation - But such responses need to be based on sound Christian principles of Love. Not on the opposing principles which are hate.
Peace
James
J
JRKH
Guest
Let’s take the analogy of Hitler and the Bully you know even a bit further.
Hitler himself said that if the french and English had resisted his reoccupation of the Rhineland in 1936, he would have had to withdraw his troops with their “tails between their legs”. Germany was in no position to militarily confront the wast at that time.
This of course would have been a political disaster for Hitler and perhaps greater injustices could have been avoided.
Now you are listening to this Bully Spout his hate speach, and if I’m not mistaken you are not confronting him on it. If this is true then how is your lack of action in defence of your faith and in defence of others he threatens any different than teh lack of action on the part of the French and English in 1936???
This bully spouts his trash and you do nothing to “sweep it up” to place before the assembled listeners, the Truths of Christianity. You do nothing to counteract his spreading of lies and distortions. It sounds as though, by your own admission, you are just as “spineless” as Chamberlain was.
Next time this person spouts off with things that are not true, respond with two words, at the appropriate time. Those two words are “Prove it”. “Prove what you are saying (about faith) is true”. Bullies like this will respond with a tirade. Let it pass. Then simply repeat, “Where is the Proof”. You have wonderful resources here and other places that can provide the Truth of faith; the truth of history etc. He will have nothing. At least nothing that cannot be shot full of holes. Challenge Him to a debate.
I will pretyy much guarentee that he will fold up. He will make personal attacks on you but less so on the truths you speak. Who knows, by standing up to him you might force him to stop coming around, which will be to everyones benefit.
When Truth is Silent, only Evil is heard, and Evil, if heard often enough, can easily be accepted as Truth.
Peace
James
Hitler himself said that if the french and English had resisted his reoccupation of the Rhineland in 1936, he would have had to withdraw his troops with their “tails between their legs”. Germany was in no position to militarily confront the wast at that time.
This of course would have been a political disaster for Hitler and perhaps greater injustices could have been avoided.
Now you are listening to this Bully Spout his hate speach, and if I’m not mistaken you are not confronting him on it. If this is true then how is your lack of action in defence of your faith and in defence of others he threatens any different than teh lack of action on the part of the French and English in 1936???
This bully spouts his trash and you do nothing to “sweep it up” to place before the assembled listeners, the Truths of Christianity. You do nothing to counteract his spreading of lies and distortions. It sounds as though, by your own admission, you are just as “spineless” as Chamberlain was.
Next time this person spouts off with things that are not true, respond with two words, at the appropriate time. Those two words are “Prove it”. “Prove what you are saying (about faith) is true”. Bullies like this will respond with a tirade. Let it pass. Then simply repeat, “Where is the Proof”. You have wonderful resources here and other places that can provide the Truth of faith; the truth of history etc. He will have nothing. At least nothing that cannot be shot full of holes. Challenge Him to a debate.
I will pretyy much guarentee that he will fold up. He will make personal attacks on you but less so on the truths you speak. Who knows, by standing up to him you might force him to stop coming around, which will be to everyones benefit.
When Truth is Silent, only Evil is heard, and Evil, if heard often enough, can easily be accepted as Truth.
Peace
James
B
bmadamsberry
Guest
I have a personal example that might illustrate this point:
A newspaper of a city that I am visiting wrote a hateful article against the Archbishop who was receiving an honorary degree from a local university. I wrote a letter to the newspaper, explaining the Catholic’s towards homosexual “marriage” (which is why the newspaper was angry, because of the Archbishop’s continuous defence of real marriage). A few weeks later, the newspaper printed someone’s letter attacking me for my defence of the Archbishop and the Faith.
My point is this: It would not have been any benefit to write another letter. I said what I needed to say, and anything else would have simply degraded into a fight of words.
In your situation, the person is NOT interested in the Truth or an honest discussion. Any argument with him would simply result in a fight, with nothing being accomplished (literally nothing. He won’t change his mind, and nothing will shut people like that up because they get a thrill making people angry).
Here’s what I suggest:
Calmly ask him if he wants to have a serious and honest discussion. If he says no, or if he agrees and isn’t polite, then calmly say your last defence of the faith and don’t say anything again. Nothing else said will benefit his soul.
Furthermore, saying anything that “puts him in his place” or that “shuts him up” will not benefit his soul. The entire point of evangelization and apologetics isn’t to get another notch in your convert belt, or to win an argument, or even to put someone in their place but RATHER it is to save souls, to benefit other people’s souls.
Hope this helps.
A newspaper of a city that I am visiting wrote a hateful article against the Archbishop who was receiving an honorary degree from a local university. I wrote a letter to the newspaper, explaining the Catholic’s towards homosexual “marriage” (which is why the newspaper was angry, because of the Archbishop’s continuous defence of real marriage). A few weeks later, the newspaper printed someone’s letter attacking me for my defence of the Archbishop and the Faith.
My point is this: It would not have been any benefit to write another letter. I said what I needed to say, and anything else would have simply degraded into a fight of words.
In your situation, the person is NOT interested in the Truth or an honest discussion. Any argument with him would simply result in a fight, with nothing being accomplished (literally nothing. He won’t change his mind, and nothing will shut people like that up because they get a thrill making people angry).
Here’s what I suggest:
Calmly ask him if he wants to have a serious and honest discussion. If he says no, or if he agrees and isn’t polite, then calmly say your last defence of the faith and don’t say anything again. Nothing else said will benefit his soul.
Furthermore, saying anything that “puts him in his place” or that “shuts him up” will not benefit his soul. The entire point of evangelization and apologetics isn’t to get another notch in your convert belt, or to win an argument, or even to put someone in their place but RATHER it is to save souls, to benefit other people’s souls.
Hope this helps.
J
jimpres
Guest
I think avoiding the conflict is the right thing to do. Agree to disagree if you must but don’t be confrontational.
If he starts beating on you that is different.
If he starts beating on you that is different.
B
bosonhiggs
Guest
Be careful not to confuse pacifism with appeasement.
You can use nonviolent means to stand up for yourself and your beliefs - there is absolutely no need for you to allow another person to walk all over you like a rug. However, violence (or the suggestion of violence) will not solve anything. In all odds it will only make an already tense situation even worse.
If there is no way for conflict to be avoided and you want this person to “shut his mouth”, talk to him. Make sure you are calm, never raise your voice, and use well thought out statements which clearly state why you are upset with the other’s actions WITHOUT blaming him. Tell him what you have said here - that you feel his statements have crossed a line and are very discriminatory, and that you would appreciate it if he could keep such thoughts to himself. It is unlikely that he will agree with you, but at this point you have said your piece so leave it at that and walk away from the situation. It is up to the other person to change the behavior, not you.
In my experience, people are often humbled greatly by a strong, calm presence telling them to “knock it off”, and they won’t bother them again.
You can use nonviolent means to stand up for yourself and your beliefs - there is absolutely no need for you to allow another person to walk all over you like a rug. However, violence (or the suggestion of violence) will not solve anything. In all odds it will only make an already tense situation even worse.
If there is no way for conflict to be avoided and you want this person to “shut his mouth”, talk to him. Make sure you are calm, never raise your voice, and use well thought out statements which clearly state why you are upset with the other’s actions WITHOUT blaming him. Tell him what you have said here - that you feel his statements have crossed a line and are very discriminatory, and that you would appreciate it if he could keep such thoughts to himself. It is unlikely that he will agree with you, but at this point you have said your piece so leave it at that and walk away from the situation. It is up to the other person to change the behavior, not you.
In my experience, people are often humbled greatly by a strong, calm presence telling them to “knock it off”, and they won’t bother them again.
I
I_Fortuna
Guest
Hi there,
One of the seven mercies is to Admonish the Sinner.
Jesus admonished the money changers in the temple and even his own disciples on occasion.
It is very hard to believe but this type of person you are talking about can and often does become one of the most staunch Christian believers. I have seen it happen to others and for myself. I used to be Saul before he became Paul. I persecuted Christians perhaps not as fervently as your antagonist.
Please continue to pray for this person and if you have the opportunity evangelize if you are certain that you are not putting your safety in jeopardy. Have documentation to back up your statements if possible. Arguing really is not communicating which is what it appears he wants to engage you in by his own self-hate.
Also, he may very well be a member of one of the Roman recreationist sites on the web. They are very verbally harsh toward Christians. Even so, some Christians belong to this type of site.
It sounds like he is mimicking what he has read or participated in on one of these sites.
I am not a psychiatrist but it sounds as though this is the way he has control over some area of his life since he has no control over any other facet. He is weak and trying to compensate for this weakness through shock and bullying and pretending to have a superior intellect. He found a way to have power over people with his trash talk. He is inviting confrontation. I have seen this before.
He does not realize that true control is to turn our lives over to Christ who provides us with everything we need.
One of the seven mercies is to Admonish the Sinner.
Jesus admonished the money changers in the temple and even his own disciples on occasion.
It is very hard to believe but this type of person you are talking about can and often does become one of the most staunch Christian believers. I have seen it happen to others and for myself. I used to be Saul before he became Paul. I persecuted Christians perhaps not as fervently as your antagonist.
Please continue to pray for this person and if you have the opportunity evangelize if you are certain that you are not putting your safety in jeopardy. Have documentation to back up your statements if possible. Arguing really is not communicating which is what it appears he wants to engage you in by his own self-hate.
Also, he may very well be a member of one of the Roman recreationist sites on the web. They are very verbally harsh toward Christians. Even so, some Christians belong to this type of site.
It sounds like he is mimicking what he has read or participated in on one of these sites.
I am not a psychiatrist but it sounds as though this is the way he has control over some area of his life since he has no control over any other facet. He is weak and trying to compensate for this weakness through shock and bullying and pretending to have a superior intellect. He found a way to have power over people with his trash talk. He is inviting confrontation. I have seen this before.
He does not realize that true control is to turn our lives over to Christ who provides us with everything we need.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Read again, I said his pacifism is what was spineless.
Wars need instigators to even happen in the first place which is what Germany was. It was only logical for them to have punished Germany because it wasn’t the only country that suffered economic damage. Britain did too and France suffered the loss of many of its soldiers.
If a psychotic murderer breaks out and goes on a rampage, logic like yours could be used to blame the escape on the prison wardens and the families of his past victims who wanted him in jail. The grounds being because he was being “mistreated”. Hello? Whatever happened to “you do the crime, you do the time”?
You do realize that America also did the same with its Allies such as Britain right? This wasn’t about recovery for the enemies, it was for everyone. And don’t forget, Japan had to put up with foreign occupation (which is generally a bad thing) while the atomic bombings could be seen as a means of avenging Pearl Harbor. No matter what you say, consequences were still imposed after World War II.
Funny, reading about Japan right after their defeat in World War II pretty much looked the same as Germany after WWI. People were homeless, economy was a mess, cities destroyed…
However, they didn’t turn to a toothbrush-mustached fascist to solve their problems. They rose up. Now they’re one of Asia’s leading nations while my country (which they tried to invade) has marked it as a popular destination for our overseas workers. >_<;;
As much as I believe we should hate the sin and not the sinner, it becomes rather impossible when the sinner in question starts to deliberately embody the hate and sin he espouses and commits, not to mention shows no sign of turning back. The only solution I can think of is to stop trying to make a vain distinction and overwhelm such hatred with a righteous one. If I should employ violence, so be it. Furthermore, righteous hatred has another name you know? It’s called justice.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
In case you have forgotten, I said I had already done that. I even had back up and we had only our memory of a few apologetics as our sources. Why do you think this guy hates me in the first place!? I already showed him up and now he sees that I’m the enemy of the anti-religious propaganda machine that he has been brainwashed by.
Do not confuse spinelessness with practicality and subtlety. Do you have any idea how I wish I could make him look like a fool? Unfortunately, I’m not exactly popular or well known where I hang. I just go to the same place as he does because I have a few friends there as well. However, I’m not friends with everybody. What’s worse is that I don’t exactly surround myself with a well-informed bunch much less a religious one. That’s what makes it easier for him to open his fat mouth of lies and harder for mine to speak the truth.
Who would care if I argued with him? I’ll only cause trouble. The only way is to make a subtle attack on his person long enough so that people will respect him less and me more. I’d resort to backstabbing if I have to (not that he hasn’t done that). The point is, the turning of the cheek is over. My war with this guy starts now.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
You should be telling that to the pacifist here not me. I acknowledge the Last Resort label on violence. However, I’m not going to be blind at how likely I might actually end up using that last resort. As I said, I’m dealing with a college-aged thug who actually had scuffles with the police and threatened his teachers.
That’s always been my strategy. The only problem is half the time the person doesn’t take kindly to the blow I dealt to his/her pride and instead of being humbled, they mark you on their hate list.
J
JRKH
Guest
Subtle difference indeed. I stand corrected.
Yes wars need instigators. In the case of WW I there were several factors. One HUGE factor was the interlocking series of alliances among the European powers. So long as there was nothing to upset the balance, these interocking alliances appeared to provide assurances that war could not occur. What these alliances could NOT do is prevent underlying jealousy and backbiting among the countries. In other words the various treaties provided a “christian like” veneer over very “unchrisitan like” activities going on in business and in government.
The balance in all of this got knocked over when a Serbian patriot Assasinated the Archduke Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary. This set off a chain of events of which Germany was but one piece.
Austria-Hungary took punitive measures against Serbia, Then Russia, a friend to Serbia, declared war on Austria-Hungary . Germany, who was allied with Austria-Hungary declared war on Russia. France and England who had Treaties with Russia then came into the war against Germany and Austria-Hungary.
Far from being the “instigator” of the war, Germany was merely acting in an honorable fashon by living up to her promise of her treaty with the Hapburgs of Austria-Hungary.
I might also add that most of these governments had long standing hurts, feuds, and “axes to grind” with each other and so all of them saw this war as a way to settle accounts. None of them foresaw the devestation they were unleashing. Germany was neither any more or any less responsible for the First World War than anyone else. Yet because Germany was the one who sued for peace, and she was the only one of the central powers still standing, she was made to bear the full blame for the war and the full econimic burden for all it’s devestation - not just part of it but ALL OF IT.
Take some time - and read the history of Europe from 1900 on and you will be surprised at how much greed, malice, backbiting and backstabbing was going on. In other words how much “unchristian” activity there was, and what the consequences of this were.
The Employment of Christian Principle could have prevented WW I. - If not, the employment of Christian Principles in the Peace at Versailles could have prevented WW II.
Yes I am aware that America poured money into England and France as well as Germany Italy and Japan - And that Germany and Japan were Occupied for some years - and that the Atomic bombs were seen by many as "avenging PH.
I never said that there were not “consquences” placed on the losers. but those consequences cannot compare with the consequnces meted out to Germany in 1919. the result of that was WW II. The result of the more benevolent stance taken after WW II was a period of unprecedented peace and prosperity for much of the world.
There is no comparison between the two peoples or times.
Japan was not made to carry the entire economic burden for the war they had just lost like Germany was in1919. Instead they were given loans and monitary grants to rebuild.
The US and Britian, also remained with Japan during her reconstruction so that subversive elements like communism could not take serious root. Which was another problem in Post WW I Germany.
No there is no comparison between the two - - -
Except that, After WW II teh Allies turned their former enemies into friends by being, not vindictive conquerors, but being magnanimous friends.
I agree that there are times when this occurs. Once Hitler had gotten hold of Germany and the threat recognized for what it was, there was no alternative than to fight.
But it has been my experience when reading history that often times these extreme circumstances could have been avoided by the application of Christian principles of Charity, Humility, Forebearance and Justice, in place of the decidedly unchristian principles of greed, obstinance, pride, and revenge.
Peace
James
J
JRKH
Guest
Wonderful post. Well written and full of insights.
It is also good that you recognize how this person has been “brainwashed” by sources that already feed into his hate and frankly into his fear.
Please compare this defence of your actions against your harsh judgement of Chamberlain at Munich. You see Chamberlains’ actions as “Spineless” but yours are “practical and suble”. You stood up and defended your faith against this bully. He now hates you. You both continue to fequent the same place, but who is the one still making his views known? So who has capitulated?
One of Chamberlain’s hopes was to forestall, if not avert, war while England rebuilt her military. Are you using the time to build up your responses, your sources, and your abilities and the abilities of your “back-up” in order to take on this bully again?
Also - the thing you term “backstabbing” which I take to mean “personal attacks” and “Character assasination”- I’d not resort to that. Believe me he is already doing a good job of that on his own. But I would not hesitate at all to counter his arguments quietly. You can easily cut any support he has out from under him by “whispering” well founded and documented truth that will drown out the “shouted” lies. You will leave him shouting to an “empty house” where no few if anyone takes him seriously.
I really think that this is something you should consider too. On the other thread, you mentioned about how you get the adrenalen rush from the videogames and from hunting. My guess is that this new “Game”, this new “Challange” in the REal world could be a major “rush” as well. Do you think you could get as good at slaying real demons with the weapons of truth an Love as you are at slaying “demonic pixels” with virtual weapons?
Peace
James
With all that has been going on in this and the other thread, I suppose I did forget that you have already stood up to this guy. I don’t remember your mentioniing that you had (have) “backup”. This is wonderful.
It is also good that you recognize how this person has been “brainwashed” by sources that already feed into his hate and frankly into his fear.
Interesting - - -
Please compare this defence of your actions against your harsh judgement of Chamberlain at Munich. You see Chamberlains’ actions as “Spineless” but yours are “practical and suble”. You stood up and defended your faith against this bully. He now hates you. You both continue to fequent the same place, but who is the one still making his views known? So who has capitulated?
One of Chamberlain’s hopes was to forestall, if not avert, war while England rebuilt her military. Are you using the time to build up your responses, your sources, and your abilities and the abilities of your “back-up” in order to take on this bully again?
Sounds like a big problem for you. Two options here. Change the people you hang with, or see that those you DO hang with are well-informed and, hopefully, more religious or at least more tolerant and willing to defend the relgious view. Evangelize those neutrals and those who “lean” toward his views (without the ingrained hate) and you neatly slice his support out from under him.Unfortunately, I’m not exactly popular or well known where I hang. I just go to the same place as he does because I have a few friends there as well. However, I’m not friends with everybody. What’s worse is that I don’t exactly surround myself with a well-informed bunch much less a religious one. That’s what makes it easier for him to open his fat mouth of lies and harder for mine to speak the truth.
Many might care. I fact I’d bet most do care. they are probably just as tired of this guy as you are. Many might be looking for someone with courage enough to stand up to this fellow with good solid arguments. My bet is that he spouts off the same garbage, almost word for word every time. So it should be easy for you to narrow in on his specific arguments and sources and provide counterarguments to his.
Also - the thing you term “backstabbing” which I take to mean “personal attacks” and “Character assasination”- I’d not resort to that. Believe me he is already doing a good job of that on his own. But I would not hesitate at all to counter his arguments quietly. You can easily cut any support he has out from under him by “whispering” well founded and documented truth that will drown out the “shouted” lies. You will leave him shouting to an “empty house” where no few if anyone takes him seriously.
I really think that this is something you should consider too. On the other thread, you mentioned about how you get the adrenalen rush from the videogames and from hunting. My guess is that this new “Game”, this new “Challange” in the REal world could be a major “rush” as well. Do you think you could get as good at slaying real demons with the weapons of truth an Love as you are at slaying “demonic pixels” with virtual weapons?
Peace
James
L
LilyM
Guest
Exactly - by trying to either physically or verbally ‘attack’ (ie by backstabbing or character assassination as you’ve said) you’d be doing the equivalent of Germany’s resort to a fascist leader.
In fact Hitler’s regime was uniquely one where a minister, Goebbels, was specifically placed in charge of propaganda (ie backstabbing and character assassination, such as spreading lies and rumours and general scuttlebutt about the Jews so that their extermination would be better accepted).
With his ministry actually being CALLED the Ministry of Propaganda, with no attempt to hide that this was what he was doing. And where this propaganda ministry and its work made Goebbels as influential and valued a member of Hitler’s regime as any of the leaders of his military, the SS or Gestapo or the like.
- Status