Forced Family Prayer Pros vs. Cons

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Katie777 said:
I think the kneeling was extreme and but the routine to pray was not.

It’s interesting that your mom returned to the church right before this started, so the desire for you to pray and love for Jesus was probably no present in your young soul yet. It’s not your fault to feel this way.

I think going from zero to sixty as they say is not a good way to teach piety and about prayer, it should be gradual and should start much younger then 8.

I hope that you come to realize that your mom did not know how to teach you.
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I think I mentioned this before, but…the ability for a parent to teach prayer and faith in a loving way is itself dependent on the child having a healthy, loving relationship with the parent.

From OP’s description, I have very serious doubts that the relationship was healthy in other ways. Prayer is not a habit that can be properly incorporated merely by scaring a child into doing it. And mean parents tend to teach about mean Gods.
 
I’m so sorry. We parents do not always get it right. Sometimes we parents fear soooo much for the salvation of our children that we do nutty, over-the-top things, and sometimes they end up harming that child emotionally/spiritually.

Prayer should never be a punishment. Physical discomfort/pain is a specific form of mortification and it sounds as if your parents were moving into the more extreme forms which is only to be done under spiritual direction.

They messed up. I would suggest you find a good priest to talk to who can help you, with the Holy Spirit’s comfort, to heal those wounds.

I will pray for you.
 
DarkLight said:
From OP’s description, I have very serious doubts that the relationship was healthy in other ways. Prayer is not a habit that can be properly incorporated merely by scaring a child into doing it. And mean parents tend to teach about mean Gods.
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You are likely correct, and a number of us have posted above that it appears there was a lot more going on here than just “mom made us pray”.

A routine to pray, just by itself, without physical mortification and without some other type of non-religious abuse going on, is no worse than a routine that the kid will brush his teeth twice a day and be in bed by a certain time.
 
What about when your child refuses to pray at all. I pray frequently and ask my 11 and 13 year old to join me in prayer and they always say no? Should I force them? If so, they will run to my wife and she will excuse them. We do not pray as a family because my wife believes prayer should only be in the heart, not together, out loud as a family.
 
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what ever happened ro the rule we cant offer any medical or spiritual advice. Over 70 replies already.

The op has a very complicated issue and history we cant unravel.

we cannot comment on the relationship between the op and parents either

some of the replies are likely to cause more damage.

see a professional is the only appropriate answer as per the rules
 
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DarkLight said:
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Katie777:
I think the kneeling was extreme and but the routine to pray was not.

It’s interesting that your mom returned to the church right before this started, so the desire for you to pray and love for Jesus was probably no present in your young soul yet. It’s not your fault to feel this way.

I think going from zero to sixty as they say is not a good way to teach piety and about prayer, it should be gradual and should start much younger then 8.

I hope that you come to realize that your mom did not know how to teach you.
Click to expand...
I think I mentioned this before, but…the ability for a parent to teach prayer and faith in a loving way is itself dependent on the child having a healthy, loving relationship with the parent.

From OP’s description, I have very serious doubts that the relationship was healthy in other ways. Prayer is not a habit that can be properly incorporated merely by scaring a child into doing it. And mean parents tend to teach about mean Gods.
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Yes of course, that’s what I said.

I am thinking that the op was not properly introduced to prayer at a young age. If this was the first lessons in praying and practice of reverence, it would seem like a punishment no matter what the relationship between them was previously.

I have seen 8 year olds be able to kneel for hours playing video games, but they are not bored, so this too adds another dimension.
 
I wonder about the mother’s own relationship with faith as well.

Not everyone’s faith practices are necessarily healthy. We’ve seen on this forum posters who indulge in excessive prayer or other religious practices out of some form of fear. In parents that can also manifest in a fear that the normal limitations of children are a sign of some deep spiritual malady that must be suppressed. There are adults that practice their faith out of fear of punishment by God.
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
I saw something like this up close and personal. The father of a family went through a series of traumas in too short a time. He became super-religious. He started forced family prayers like the ones you describe. He was trying to force God’s hand to make the situation turn around. Not only didn’t it work, but the children still at home when this happened hate God and want nothing to do with Him.
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I was raised in an atheist household, so the problem of forced prayer never arose. However, I was so rebellious and contrary as a child and young man that I can say with certainty that I would have had a major issue with family prayer. I would have seen it as a violation of my sovereign autonomy, and would likely have self-righteously refused to participate. How foolish I was when I was young! ☹️
 
Well, the only other thing I can add to what has already been said is just a simple fact I have run into as an adult Catholic.

I have asked permission from two different Priests to engage in lite to moderate mortification that some of the Saints and many monks have engaged in. I have been turned down both times. If even lite physical mortification is off limits to an adult, I don’t see how a priest would allow this for a kid. Just a thought.
 
No. Your parents making you do something you found boring is not abuse. The idea is to develop a habit of putting aside time to pray before going to bed.

Nobody can force you to pray, but you should sit quietly and respectfully during that time. It’s similar to dinner time. Just because you claim you aren’t hungry doesn’t give you the pass to go play Mario Bros. Your parents can’t physically force you to eat, but you still have to sit up at the table and participate in meal time. Similarly, the teacher can’t force you to read during silent reading time, but she can require you to remain in your seat quietly and hold the book right-side-up. Also, a mom can’t force a kid to pee, but she can require him to take the time to sit on the toilet for a minute and hopefully try to empty his bladder before a long car trip.

It was probably not right of your parents to make you kneel for the entire time if you were saying that it was painful. Kneeling is a good position for prayer, but it isn’t the only position. If it causes discomfort to the point that it distracts from the prayer, it’s best to choose another position. However, if your parents were dealing with kids who were being demonstratively disrespectful during prayer time, I could see insisting on a specific, appropriate posture. They probably should have put more thought into what posture is appropriate if you were complaining of pain in the knees, but it is often hard, when a child is being defiant, to guess what really is a serious complaint and what is just a fabricated excuse to not comply with the rules. Sometimes, when my daughter gets bored in Mass, she tries to be demonstrative about it by laying down in the pew. If she does, she is told that she has to sit up with her hands in her lap. This position should not be causing her any discomfort though. Your parents should have considered that the kneeling position was causing you discomfort and allowed you to sit up instead. Unless the Eucharist was exposed in your livingroom, there was no reason to require kneeling.
 
spiritual advice better left to the Parish Priest, person responsible for spiritual health.

I count at least 3 or 4 issues in the op’s initial questions that are quite complicated.

Any opinions ,advice , condoning, condemnation, reasons for or against,

could be extremely damaging to this person’s situation , or to the interactions with the parents or church.

we dont know what this person is contemplating or capable of.

worst case scenario, a very disturbed individual jumps on the forum , finds justification for an action being contemplated, people wind up dead.

and quite frankly , none of us are qualified to give any advice here . Its a dangerous activity to pursue.
 
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Thank you for the mostly thoughtful replies. I had to wait a day to post this because there’s a limit for new members. I guess my initial comment should’ve been more specific. I don’t need counseling and didn’t come here for support, just information. I was curious if what I experienced is normal for people raised as Catholics. Sorry if this wasn’t the right place to enquire.

Whether or not it was technically or legally or morally abuse, it felt like it to me. In all those years Mom never once asked me if I believed in God. Maybe belief was so easy or logical for her she assumed it was the same for me. I was too afraid of her fierce conviction to volunteer the information, and if I had, I’m quite certain she would have become even more relentless and determined. I couldn’t just make myself believe. The only thing I can compare it to is hypnosis. I tried, twice, to be hypnotized to help me quit smoking, and both times they gave up on me, insisting that I didn’t really want to be hypnotized.

When I was living on my own Mom would ask if I was saying my prayers and going to church, if I was still wearing my rosary and scapular (we’d been required to wear those at all times) and would make comments like “it breaks my heart that you’re abandoning your faith”. A completely honest answer would’ve been “I’m sorry, but it was never my faith” but that would’ve been rubbing salt in the wound.
 
I will also say that…having grown up in an emotionally abusive family, there are a lot of things that looked a lot like what normal families do, that weren’t actually good at all. And it’s really hard to explain the problem to those who don’t have that sort of experience.

I realized eventually that it’s often a matter of pattern and background as much as individual incidents. Sometimes, this one thing, or that other thing, no one thing by itself would be a big deal, but when you add all of them in they cause a problem. Sometimes there was stuff that was just a bit over the edge, but it can be difficult to p(name removed by moderator)oint exactly how, and it’s often something that takes several years to figure out.
 
I think we can safely conclude that what your Mom did wasn’t the norm for a loving Catholic parent. A lot of us have loving and caring parental memories centered around prayer; Mom hearing our prayers at night, or teaching us children’s prayers, before comforting or pretty statues of saints or pictures of Jesus, that sort of kindly thing.

It sounds to me like your Mom may have meant well, but was perhaps not raised by loving, religious parents herself and did not really understand how to go about bringing up her children in the Catholic faith in a way that would make them want to continue the practice as teens and adults.

I am sorry you did not get a chance to experience a loving faith upbringing.

I will pray for you and your Mom.
 
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As to this:

Children being expected to join in family prayers is normal. The times you describe are not normal, especially not for small children. Generally young children are either asked to join in short prayers, or given more interactive activities. Being expected to kneel to the point of pain is also not normal (I’m not even sure I could do that . Usually there’s also an effort to introduce children to prayer more slowly and by explaining prayer in an age-appropriate fashion rather than simply ordering children to repeat words.
 
I read the novice monks [desert fathers] were given a branch or a stick. If they felt any lust etc, they would smack their leg to get rid of it.

Father did not care for this, which brings in obedience, so I gave up the idea.
 
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