Forced Releif in Mayanmar

[vern_humphrey]

When are you neocons going to stop beating that dead horse?

What’s a “neocon?”

You just said Iraq was invaded for:
Where is our national interest in that? Don’t tell me it’s embeded in international terrorism, because that dog won’t hunt either.

Oh, gee, what is our interest?

You may recall, that although most American oil does not come from the Middle East, the rest of the world is dependent on it. Saddam Hussain invaded one of his neighboring states (kinda like Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, rememeber?) and was well on his way to dominating the entire region – to the detriment of the rest of the world.

Throw long range rockets and WMD into the equation, and you have a bomb with the fuze lit.

 

[pnewton]

If force must be used, let the British (who used to colonize Myanmar) or other nations in the region do the heavy lifting.

Or China and Indonesia since they are the ones that blocked unified international action.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Or China and Indonesia since they are the ones that blocked unified international action.

Let them go in – along with everyone who wants “forced relief.” As I said, I will lend to anyone who wants to go, an M1 rifle and all the ammo they want.

 

[Verisimilitude]

What’s a “neocon?”

Other than the reflection in the mirror I will give a better description when I get home tonight.

Oh, gee, what is our interest?

You tell me since you think the 4000+ that have been killed already is worth it.

You may recall, that although most American oil does not come from the Middle East, the rest of the world is dependent on it. Saddam Hussain invaded one of his neighboring states (kinda like Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, rememeber?) and was well on his way to dominating the entire region – to the detriment of the rest of the world.

No kidding, and if you recall the rest of the world was not interested in the use of force in Iraq. We can debate the cheating France, Germany, Russia, China and others did when the sanctions were on, but even the ****** UN didn’t give king George the thumbs up. So what if Saddam had control of the region? He would have sold us…or the rest of the world the oil. What was he going to do with it, drink it? And if before teh war oil was under $28 per bbl, our intervention has made it rise nearly 4 times that amount now.

Throw long range rockets and WMD into the equation, and you have a bomb with the fuze lit.

Pakistan and India have nukes but not the capacity to deliver them to the US. We have bombers that can take off from the US mainland and hit any target in the world. We have carrier groups and submarines and …what are you afraid of from Iraq or Iran? They can’t touch us yet we act as if a few nut jobs with rifles will destroy us. Well, we are doing it for them. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Pakistan and India have nukes but not the capacity to deliver them to the US. We have bombers that can take off from the US mainland and hit any target in the world. We have carrier groups and submarines and …what are you afraid of from Iraq or Iran? They can’t touch us yet we act as if a few nut jobs with rifles will destroy us. Well, we are doing it for them. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me.

So their lack of ICBMs makes it all hokey-dokey? You don’t see nuclear proliferation as a danger?

When did you go to the Command and General Staff College?

 

[Verisimilitude]

So their lack of ICBMs makes it all hokey-dokey? You don’t see nuclear proliferation as a danger?

Not enough to start offensive wars, no. Why do you? The lack of ICBMs means the threat is not there. How well do you understand the technology that would require to get a nuke either on top of a missile they do not possess or in a suitcase we should stop at our border…if we decided to protect them?

When did you go to the Command and General Staff College?

I gave you my military experience- don’t like it? If you want to keep asking about my bon fides offer yours up first, or better yet why not just answer the questions posed.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Not enough to start offensive wars, no. Why do you? The lack of ICBMs means the threat is not there. How well do you understand the technology that would require to get a nuke either on top of a missile they do not possess or in a suitcase we should stop at our border…if we decided to protect them?

Spoken like a true amateur.

I gave you my military experience- don’t like it? If you want to keep asking about my bon fides offer yours up first, or better yet why not just answer the questions posed.

First of all, I have answered the questions – your imagination of military matters does not over ride reality.

My bona fides include being a graduate of the Infantry Officer’s Advanced Course, the Command and General Staff College, and commanding two companies in combat, as well as service as an adviser to the ARVN. I have also served on the staff of two divisions.

After retiring from the Army, I worked for many years in training, operations, research and related fields – mostly for the military.

Now, can we drop the “I hate George Bush” rhetoric and get back to the thread?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Spoken like a true amateur.

Response by a true (Edited).

First of all, I have answered the questions – your imagination of military matters does not over ride reality.

No, you haven’t answered anything except to show your ignorance and bull-headedness. Tell me why 4000 dead soldiers in Iraq is in our national interest. Tell me why our actions in Iraq are helping the cost of fuel for the average American. There are a whole list of things I asked that you avoid.

My bona fides include being a graduate of the Infantry Officer’s Advanced Course, the Command and General Staff College, and commanding two companies in combat, as well as service as an adviser to the ARVN. I have also served on the staff of two divisions.

After retiring from the Army, I worked for many years in training, operations, research and related fields – mostly for the military.

Then you should require little re-training to go fight this war yourself like you want others to do in Myanmar. I know many people who have extensive schooling who lack common sense and the ability to reason. The more you speak the more you put yourself in that camp.

Now, can we drop the “I hate George Bush” rhetoric and get back to the thread?

I never left it and always have steered back to it. I can tell by your responses to me you think I am some punk without cause to voice an opinion on something so complex as the use of the military becasue I didn’t go the particular school you did or becasue I was not in combat myself. You are pretty full of yourself, Vern. The opinions we have about each other are not relevant and you project a hatred toward Bush from me I never uttered or share. My disagreement with his policy never entered the realm of personability.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Response by a true jack***.

How immature.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Sadly it doesn’t seem that genocide is a world concern. Abortion is ironically. It’s sure getting easy to justifiy murder as not in American interests. I’m rather dumbfounded at this discussion. I am not sure that military agression is the answer mind you, but I sure don’t justify not using it by a cold-blooded claim that we have no “interest” in the country. I guess if it had oil, we might be more interested. How can we parse life this way and call ourselves Christian? I’m not casting any stones at a single person here, just the tenor of the general conversation. It’s like nobody cares that the ruling Junta hates its own people and simply protects itself while it lives a high life and people die by the tens of thousands. Is this the way human beings act?

 

[Verisimilitude]

How immature.

Fine, but that doesn’t answer a single question.

 

[pnewton]

What’s a “neocon?”

It is a label used as to reduce complex issues to simple slogans and terms. It works well for those who have run out of other intelligent things to say.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Fine, but that doesn’t answer a single question.

When you make immature insults like that, you are no longer debating seriously.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Regarding the term “neocon.”

It is a label used as to reduce complex issues to simple slogans and terms. It works well for those who have run out of other intelligent things to say.

Bingo!

And note none of the people who sling it around seem to be capable of defining it.

 

[cynic]

You may recall, that although most American oil does not come from the Middle East, the rest of the world is dependent on it. Saddam Hussain invaded one of his neighboring states (kinda like Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, rememeber?) and was well on his way to dominating the entire region – to the detriment of the rest of the world.
.

er, wasn’t that sorted out in the early 90’s.

Throw long range rockets and WMD into the equation, and you have a bomb with the fuze lit.

Long range as in could possibly hit Israel. No nuclear development. WMD… crude chemical weapons like nerve gas that were used against the Kurds in the 80’s. No evidence of any links to Al Qaeda.

 

[vern_humphrey]

er, wasn’t that sorted out in the early 90’s.

No. The war ended in a truce, which Saddam constantly violated.

Long range as in could possibly hit Israel. No nuclear development. WMD… crude chemical weapons like nerve gas that were used against the Kurds in the 80’s. No evidence of any links to Al Qaeda.

Actually, suspended nuclear development. As for “crude chemical weapons like nerve gas” – do you know what nerve gas is?

And while there were links to Al Qaeda, no one can deny we’re crushing Al Qaeda now – on a battle ground of our own choosing.

But what’s this got to do with forced relief in Myanmar? And when do you leave to prepare for the invasion?

 

[cynic]

No. The war ended in a truce, which Saddam constantly violated.

Which was not the premise used for the war.

There is also some suggestion of drilling under Iraq’s border by Kuwait.

Actually, suspended nuclear development. As for “crude chemical weapons like nerve gas” – do you know what nerve gas is?

something that can be manufactured by just about any rogue state?

And while there were links to Al Qaeda, no one can deny we’re crushing Al Qaeda now – on a battle ground of our own choosing.

Actually there’s a resurgence of Al Qaeda activity in Afghanistan. But at least that war had an honest pre-text.

If your own administration can’t find any evidence of a link to Al Qaeda, then I doubt you can.

But what’s this got to do with forced relief in Myanmar? And when do you leave to prepare for the invasion?

Well you’re suggesting that the U.S has the right to pre-emptive war based on what’s good for the world (supposedly).

 

[vern_humphrey]

Which was not the premise used for the war.

Actually, it was, you know.

There is also some suggestion of drilling under Iraq’s border by Kuwait.

Are you an apologist for Saddam Hussain? Do you claim his invasion of Kuwait was justified?

something that can be manufactured by just about any rogue state?

And how would they do that? And equally important, how would they store it, transport it and weaponize it?

Well you’re suggesting that the U.S has the right to pre-emptive war based on what’s good for the world (supposedly).

First of all, that’s simply a pretext on your part. Iraq was in violation of the truce, pure and simpel.

But I assume you feel we should imitate the French Guards. After Detengen had orders from the King of France to always receive fire before giving fire. Tell us how well that worked at Fontenoy.

 

[Verisimilitude]

It is a label used as to reduce complex issues to simple slogans and terms. It works well for those who have run out of other intelligent things to say.

No, it is a term used to describe a dangerous ideology. Why don’t you try answering my questions?

You are referring to a tactic like someone being called a racist when they disagree with Affermative Action to stop the argument, or being called an amature when they have a different opinion on what the law reads regarding the legitmate use of force by the US military to avioid answering the question.

When you make immature insults like that, you are no longer debating seriously.

What a joke and such thin skin too! You call me immature, an amature and can’t defend a single position you have espoused, and when asked pertinent questions you offer snide remarks like some high and mighty person expecting people to bow down before you.

Regarding the term “neocon.”

Bingo!

And note none of the people who sling it around seem to be capable of defining it.

A neocon is someone for redrawing the map of the Middle East and willing to use force to do so.
They believe in pre-emptive war to achieve desired ends.
They accept the notion that the ends justify the means, and that hardball politics is a moral necessity.
Most neocons express no opposition to the welfare state.
They are not bashful about an American empire and strongly endorse it.
They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have courage to deal with it.
They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill advised.
They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature is appropriate.
They believe using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable, and that force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
They feel 9/11 happened from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
They dislike and despise libertarians and strict constitutionalists.
They endorse attacks on civil liberties such as those found in the Patriot Act as being necessary.

After seeing yourself in the above, now answer my question: what US national interest in 2003 Iraq is worth the 4000+ dead soldiers/Marines?

 

[pnewton]

After seeing yourself in the above, now answer my question: what US national interest in 2003 Iraq is worth the 4000+ dead soldiers/Marines?

This relates to Myanmar how?

FYI - The junta’s figure is 134,000 dead in Myanmar.