Forced Sterlization: A Solution to Health Care Problems?

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You don’t need a Pope or a Bishop in your bedroom -but you do need God there.

The church needs to stay out of reproductive choices but the government needs to be in them? The government should have more authority than God? People who chose to actually use their reproductive organs as God intended should be penalized?

What church do you belong to - The Church of Secular Authority? Give me a break.:rolleyes:
The church is NOT God. The church is the church, God is God. Secular Authority is very vague, which secular authority? You want to regulate womens reproductive choices but that’s ok?
You want to make birth-control illegal and that’s ok?
 
Sterilization should not be forced, but removing children from unfit parents should be easier and adoption should be made easier and more final. Unfortunately this could backfire if a parent is targeted for his or her religious beliefs. All people should have access to basic health care, but it should be affordable to begin with.

In Russia, in the beginning of the 20th century (before the revolution), good OB and maternity care was available for all, including the poor. The difference was the more well off were served on good china and laid on good sheets. I don’t know whether people received much else in health care, but that was pre-modern medicine anyway.

Health care is a third of the economy, so we should be careful how we proceed with things. A lot of people depend on what they are getting, and yes, much of it is free stuff provided by the government. I think if we fiddle with it too much we could create a disaster.
 
The church is NOT God. The church is the church, God is God. Secular Authority is very vague, which secular authority? You want to regulate womens reproductive choices but that’s ok?
You want to make birth-control illegal and that’s ok?
So it’s your position that Christ did not establish a Church? That He did not commission his Apostles? That He did not give them the power to loose and bind? That with His passing, He left no one behind Him to carry out His mission?
 
Sterilization should not be forced, but removing children from unfit parents should be easier and adoption should be made easier and more final. Unfortunately this could backfire if a parent is targeted for his or her religious beliefs.
Or fires an unfit baby sitter who tells Social Services a story, or has a quarrel with a neighbor, or has a business with a disgruntled employee.

Even if the stories are proven false, it will cost you a bundle to get your child back – about as much as it would cost to put that same child through college.
 
Sacramentalist,

I just read through this entire thread, and am feeling sick to my stomach. At school I study political science and theology, and plan on going into political theory–so I could sit here and debate the merits of your ‘solution’. But I’m not going to do that, and my response to you will be completely rational and free from the intrusion of emotion which you apparently so detest.

So you seem to have found an issue on which no pope has made a specific, particular declaration, and which is unique from any other in American history. Yeah, yeah, they’ve said that the sterilization of *innocents *is reprehensible, but not of convicts. Yeah, yeah, the American government has forced the sterilization of thousands of citizens in the past, but they were truly innocent (even though the state found them guilty of ‘genetic defect’), and the ones you’re proposing are truly guilty. :rolleyes:

Why don’t we step back, take a deep breath, and think about what it means to be Christian? Remember those theological virtues–faith, hope and **love? **Where is the love in your plan?

Or the mercy, humility, and service to neighbor?

Instead of sitting back in your cushy Constitutional Law summer class and passing judgment on millions of men and women who have not been given the grace (and it is absolutely **God’s grace **that allows you to be in the situation you are) to make good moral decisions, why don’t you try to think of solutions to their problems which are less filled with retribution and condescension, but more filled with love?

I have spent the past two months living and working at a Catholic hospitality home for pregnant single mothers who are alone or on the streets. They struggle with so many issues, such horrible pasts, such abandonment and pain. Things that I can hardly imagine–physical, emotional, and sexual abuse as children, multiple rapes, horrible broken families and broken relationships with men, domestic violence, the trauma of abortion, low self-esteem, the inability to find stable work or living arrangements…I could go on.

And then they find themselves pregnant, and realize that they are bringing another life into their same circumstances.

Are they at least in some way at fault for what has happened to them? Yes, they are. But so much more of what life has thrown at them are evils which they have suffered because of the sins of others.

How blessed are you and I not to have suffered as they have.

But is our task in response to their individual sin of extramarital sex to punish them? NO. We are to correct their errors, indeed, but not to violate them and figure that that will change their ways, much less their hearts.

What I have found more and more is that these women do not understand what it means to live well. They just don’t. They’ve never seen unconditional love or virtue. They can’t fathom it. They must be taught by the example of others.

For many, many, many of these women–the births of their children are the **best **thing that could possibly have happened to them. Their lives are changed. They become great mothers, committed to providing a nurturing environment for their children.

They look forward to a future where they might add more children–who they now see as blessings rather than curses–to their families, but only when they are ready.

It’s much like the sacrament of Reconciliation (hey, Sacramentalist–you should know all about it!). We confess our sins to God, repent for them, recognize the wrong that we have done–and are reborn by His grace. Our sin is no more. We are told that it has been washed away, forgotten in the mind of God.

Should we not show the same mercy of forgiveness to broken women?

Your proposal would so bolster the message of the culture of death that children are burdens and curses. They apparently either are to be aborted in secret or borne with the knowledge that their mother’s very *womanhood *will be completely destroyed because of that baby’s existence.

So much for healing.

If you want to heal our culture of death, and all the moral evils it entails, so that it becomes more friendly to human life, you ***must ***start one person at a time, teaching them their dignity and worth. Even the ‘criminal’–moral or otherwise–has human dignity.
 
I think those who support forced sterilization have an obligation to prove to the rest of us that it isn’t cruel or inhuman – and the only plausible way to do that is to volunteer for surgery themselves.😛

Now it so happens that I am well-qualified to perform this surgical procedure, having done it thousands of times on cattle, horses, hogs and sheep. So I volunteer to do my part.😃
 
I’ve been to more than one Gothic Cathedral in Europe.😃
Oh my gosh they are so beautiful!!! I’ve never been to one but the pictures I have seen. Ooooh. I would get married in one if my own church didnt mean so much to me. Lol, not to get off topic.
 
Forced sterilization? Are we communists now? Do you even realize what that’s like? We’re not talking some woman getting a letter and saying, “Oh, darn. The government says I have to get sterilized. Well, where’s my coat?” We’re talking women getting dragged from their homes by their hair and beaten into submission. Then the woman is strapped to a table and steralized while she can do nothing but scream bloody murder. Communist countries like China use this method and it is not pretty.

Forcibly sterilizing someone is a sin. Getting sterilized (by choice) is a sin. You can’t fix one sin (having a child out of wedlock) by committing other sins.

Not to mention that babies are always a blessing! Our sick world considers them almost like a death sentence. But a baby is not an STD. A baby is not at fault for two people having sex before they’re married. A baby is a miracle sent by God! It’s this attitude of treating babies as a disease that makes killing our own children look like an acceptable act.

God help us all, especially the babies we don’t welcome with open arms! :gopray2:

❤️
 
Now it so happens that I am well-qualified to perform this surgical procedure, having done it thousands of times on cattle, horses, hogs and sheep. So I volunteer to do my part.😃
Same here. Must have done it thousands of times myself in the goat world. A regular sterilizing wizard! Want to open a clinic together?
 
Same here. Must have done it thousands of times myself in the goat world. A regular sterilizing wizard! Want to open a clinic together?
Okay – but I have to tell you, I don’t do sheep by the traditional method.😃
 
Please get back on topic (and stay there) or this thread will be closed.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary
 
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