"forced to commit adultery"

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steve93446 said:
You sound like you don’t understand the situation I’m talking about. Married. Abandoned. Not my fault. Per the catechism, I am the “innocent victim” of a civil divorce. Called to the married life.
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John divorces/abandons his wife Jane.
John then marries Alice.
Jane, starving and desperate, accepts Bill as her new husband.

John is guilty of adultery as well as of causing Jane’s adultery.
Alice is guilty of adultery
Bill is guilty of adultery.
Jane is guilty of adultery. But for Jane there are mitigating circumstances. Her guilt is less.

Edit to add: if Jane had her own means of support, and did not need to remarry in order to survive, then she would be as guilty as the rest.
John most certainly cannot claim necessity for his remarriage. “Otherwise I can’t get laid” is not a valid defense to the charge of adultery.
steve93446 said:
Not really. What you would have done was to give me a choice between blaspheming or martyrdom. Easy choice. But if you declare by sovereign authority that my marriage is over, what choice do I have?
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You have the choice to remain celibate rather than commit adultery. As has already been pointed out, going without sex will not be fatal.
 
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The Fathers had various understandings of this verse.
It is also acceptable I believe to hold that being in a state of divorce is itself a form of adultery, a public counter-witness to the teachings of Jesus on permanence. Yet one party can be personally innocent.
Yet that makes no difference to the “public” angle.

That still carries over into Canon Law and Catechism today.
Divorce may not involve personal moral fault, but at a public level these cases are still said to be “tolerated”. So an objective public “sinfulness” seems to be involved even if there is no personal culpability.

Strictly speaking I believe one must still seek a dispensation of some sort from the Diocese to civilly divorce rather than separate - except in time of urgency.

I believe that all divorcees customarily were once expected to be absolved from this public state by a single Confession regardless or personal moral fault or not. That doesn’t seem to happen anymore.
Current Canon Law (written when divorce was not so prevalent) requires one to get the Bishop’s permission before filing for civil divorce if it is not an emergency situation (Cn 1153.1). However, even bishops understand this is impractical if not impossible to implement in most places. In my own diocese this year there are over 400 petitions for nullity; giving each party enough time and attention to hear their cause could be at least 6 hours (if not much more!), or 50+ hours per week just on hearing divorce pleas. And this is only a fraction of all divorced Catholics who don’t bother with annulments. Clearly the Church needs and wants to help but she is not equipped to handle the deluge of divorce. We need a better system to handle the crisis, but that’s for another post!
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If you’ve done everything you can, believe there is no possible solution left, and the marriage has been either unbearable, sinful, or dangerous to you or the children, then you may decide on your own authority (Canon 1153.1) to separate;
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steve93446 said:
Matthew 5: 32. “What I say to you is: everyone who divorces his wife - lewd conduct is a separate case - forces her to commit adultery.”
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Matthew 5:32 (NRSVCE)
32 But I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
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Is this not about a person whose marriage has ended against his or her will. Were infidelity and abandonment ends in destroying a marriage with no options for reconciliation. Using divorce to escape a difficult marriage. I feel that Jesus is only defending rather than oppressing those divorced against their will.

With the Jewish divorcing The Gett (Biblical: Sefer Keritu) must be presented by the husband according to Jewish Law and scribed by a sofer. If the wife physically accepts The Gett (handed a package unbeknown to her) then then the Gett becomes valid. However, the wife has the right to sue for divorce in a rabbinical court. Perhaps Jesus was defending Jewish law on Marriage on both sides: Deuteronomy 24

Interesting Video on The Gett, according to Jewish Law

 
I just felt it needed to acknowledge the obvious pain in your posts. I am sorry you are hurting and I will pray you will be able to find peace.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
This is a question for those who are well versed in theology.

This really needs someone like @Frdavid96.
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I am strongly against this mentality, though I would love to hear Fr. David’s understanding. We need to study, pray, and be open to His Holy Spirit about His Teachings.

I think the Greek is more like “is making” or “causes”. That would be saying that the person greatly contributes to the sin of another. Catholic Teaching does recognize that some can be an accomplice to another’s sin.

If you take away food from someone who would be forced to steal in order to survive, then you would be an accomplice to their theft.
 
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Jesus was not defending Moses’ tolerance with a certificate of divorce, but rather allowed a divorce from a “porneia” relationship. This was from the Lord, being recorded in Leviticus 18.

Jesus told the Pharisees that Moses allowed for men to divorce on account of their hardness of hearts. But Jesus raised Holy Matrimony out of that, and back to what the Father had instituted. Only the laws which prohibit “porneia” were always from God, so they remain.

Here is my thread about this:
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Catholic Teaching about divorce and remarriage Apologetics
According to Jesus, the only marriage that can be divorced is one involving “porneia”. The Catholic Church uses a marriage Tribunal to determine whether a marriage is based on “porneia” and if so, the marriage can be dissolved, and granted a decree of nulity. This means the marriage was never binding according to our Lord.
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Hi!

…wait, so Jesus is Teaching that the Sacrament of Matrimony is indissoluble but it is ok if both parties gain something from the divorce? Would this then not allow the wealthy to change the model after “xyz” miles as long as they provide financially for the old hip?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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You’ve been given the choice of adultery and suffering for God. Should be an easy choice.
 
It was common practice back then for men to marry a woman so that they could have sexual relations and have it be okay, then divorce her when he was done with her. This was given to protect the woman and keep men from simply using women for their own lustful desires.
 
The answer is already given by our Church. Our pastors rarely discuss the Teaching, let alone in ways which help us understand.

It’s not that complex… just hard to tell hard hearted people.
 
Most Catholics… those who cheat, those who divorce those who cheat, those who don’t remain abstinent after civil divorce.
 
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Wow. You guys are quite the holier-than-thou tag team. You make it sound like it’s just an intellectual problem, and not a tragedy being lived. Many people are the spouse left behind, the result of a society that accepts and encourages divorce for any reason, and you would tell them ‘Oh well, you’re screwed’ (figuratively only, of course). I hope you never find yourself in that position.
 
Usige said:
Someone who abandons a valid marriage, even without remarrying, has moral culpability for breaking their oath. The abandoned spouse does not bear moral culpability if they were not the cause of the divorce. This is why being divorced does not automatically bar one from communion. Many will say that being divorced is not a sin. That is true to a point, but if someone walks away from their marriage they are culpable based on their choices and actions. That is what that section of the Catechism is addressing.
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Sounds like you’re on the right track here. The small print after CCC 2384 elaborates
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178
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In simpler terms it just seems to say, everyone who’s not part of the original covenant commits adultery, if they’re with someone else spouse, the culpability is just less if the person wasn’t what caused the divorce.

Annulment is the only way for any formerly married person to remarry. The Church does not break the covenant, because the annulment declares the marriage was never valid. As stated, even if a spouse was not the cause for the divorce, ie. remained faithful while other cheated, that in itself will not break the bond of matrimony. Even the Church has no authority to break the covenant if the original marriage was deemed valid.
 
Hi, Steve!

The root cause of your situation may well be societal’s illness.

Demonstrating what the Sacrament means should not be detrimental to you or anyone in your situation.

However, emulating social values does counter Christian growth and Life.

I’ve asked if your marriage was a Sacramental Marriage (Church); you did not reply.

The Church has the means to annul that union; even if it was a Sacramental Marriage there could be attenuating circumstances that could make the union void. Have you consulted with your local parish’s Priest?

Now, if Scriptures states that all are sinners, why would any Catholic person believe that he/she is “holier?”

The problem, I think, lies in the need to “be understood;” rather, then accept the consequences of sin we want to hear that it is ok–that ‘God understands and is fine with our shortcomings.’ That would only help in leading others to “the fall.”

Say that you find out that your previous spouse’s actions are grounds for annulment; well, why would I want you to live in torment and turmoil? Yet, if you do not apply this experience and simply jump into another relationship… the next divorce may just be right around the corner (look up Elizabeth Taylor).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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steve93446 said:
Wow. You guys are quite the holier-than-thou tag team. You make it sound like it’s just an intellectual problem, and not a tragedy being lived. Many people are the spouse left behind, the result of a society that accepts and encourages divorce for any reason, and you would tell them ‘Oh well, you’re screwed’ (figuratively only, of course). I hope you never find yourself in that position.
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Not screwed, but given a cross. Resorting to sleeping with another is denying the cross.
 
Catholic Divorce Rate

According to research by the Barna Group, Catholics had one of the lowest incidences of divorce, with 28 percent having been divorced out of 875 interviewed. The Gospel Coalition noted that there is a somewhat significant difference between those who are actively practicing Catholics and those who consider themselves nominally Catholic. The coalition found that nominal Catholics are five percent less likely to divorce than non-religious persons, while Catholics who are actively practicing in their parishes are 31 percent less likely to get divorced than non-religious persons.

Protestant Divorce Rate

The Barna Group’s research found that Protestant individuals (anyone who identified themselves as non-Catholic, but Christian) had a divorce rate of approximately 34 percent out of a sampling of 1,997 individuals. The study was surprising in this regard, because out of all the adults interviewed (3792), the rate of divorce was 33 percent. However, the Gospel Coalition also found that active, conservative Protestants are 35 percent less likely to divorce than non-religious persons while non-active, conservative Protestants are 10 percent less likely to divorce than non-religious persons.

Muslim Divorce Rate

The most comprehensive study on divorce among Muslims was conducted in the 1990s by Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunas, a professor of sociology at the State University of New York. According to his research, the divorce rate among American Muslims was slightly more than 31 percent. Top reasons for divorce among Muslims, cited by a later Sound Vision survey include pressures and issues with in-laws, adultery and haram sex, and incompatibility.

Jewish Divorce Rates

The most recent, available study on divorce statistics among those of Jewish faith are from the Barna group, which says that approximately 30 percent of those surveyed have been divorced. A 2013 article in Vos IZ Neias? reports that the divorce rate among members of the Orthodox Jewish faith is on the rise. The reasons for this, the article states, include a lack of comprehensive marriage education, mental health issues, and changes in society’s values. - Source: Bama Group
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The Church is doing its best at preserving marriage and the family. It can certainly do better, but I believe the teaching and laws are correct. The Protestant numbers would be even higher if not for the Mormons who have one of the lowest divorce rates, even lower than Catholics I believe. The non-denominational Christian divorce rate is really high, I believe even higher than atheists , which shocked a lot of people.
 
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