Forced to stand during Consecration in Seattle

[salvo1]

I was surprised to hear a Seattle Archdiocese person, I don’t remember his name, on Catholic Answers as an Authority on the
Church. The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here. Thats not the only abuse here. Catechetics, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist, The Sacrament.
It would be nice to have an orthodox bishop in Seattle who is strong, after 40 years of Hunthausen types.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I agree, it’s horrible and makes heaven weep for you to have to stand during the Anaphora.

Eastern Churches have been standing for this for centuries.

The CORRECT posture is the way everyone around you is doing this. Otherwise, you draw attention to yourself.

 

[pnewton]

The CORRECT posture is the way everyone around you is doing this. Otherwise, you draw attention to yourself.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy and the correct posture is defined by Rome in the GIRM, not by peer pressure. It may be considered prudent to go along, but it is incorrect. I have knelt before without kneelers, even I I am the only one.

 

[Al_Masetti]

A couple of years ago, I was in Las Vegas on business. [No. Really.]

I had googled the local churches and found the closest one to my hotel. Walked there. No only were there no kneelers, but the design of the benches made it impossible to kneel.

There were a number of people who were obviously uncomfortable with that particular parish. If I ever go back, I will find some other church for Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

I was surprised to hear a Seattle Archdiocese person, I don’t remember his name, on Catholic Answers as an Authority on the
Church. The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here. Thats not the only abuse here. Catechetics, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist, The Sacrament.
It would be nice to have an orthodox bishop in Seattle who is strong, after 40 years of Hunthausen types.

“Forced??!” Did they do something to your knees??!!

 

[puzzleannie]

“Forced??!” Did they do something to your knees??!!

in the 2 churches closest to BIL in his Seattle suburb the pews (no kneelers) are placed so that kneeling is impossible there is simply no room unless you are thin, go sideways and cross your legs. You would have to climb past several people and go to the back to kneel, pushing aside the parents with small children. visitors who have tried to kneel actually have ushers come up and remind them to stand up.

 

[the_phoenix]

The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here.

While there are times when it’s good to stand for what you believe in, in my view there are times when it’s even better to kneel for what you believe in.

~~ the phoenix

 

[pnewton]

in the 2 churches closest to BIL in his Seattle suburb the pews (no kneelers) are placed so that kneeling is impossible there is simply no room unless you are thin, go sideways and cross your legs. You would have to climb past several people and go to the back to kneel, pushing aside the parents with small children. visitors who have tried to kneel actually have ushers come up and remind them to stand up.

That is a horrble story. I can not imagine a situation where an usher tells me I need to violate both my conscience and all authorith of the Catholic Church. I fear I might make a scene in such a situation.

 

[benedictgal]

First of all, the norm is to KNEEL during the Consecration. This is what Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has to say on the subject:

Is that the same thing with the consecration? Can they kneel during the consecration?

A bit different there. The rule from Rome would sanction where the bishops said, “in our country we want people to kneel throughout the consecration”. From our office in Rome we will support that. So it is a bit different. But sometimes during the consecration – suppose it is open-air or it rained and it is muddy – you could not kneel there. But in the normal church it is possible to kneel.

And that’s the normal thing: to kneel during the consecration – and even, as in this country, to kneel from the beginning – just before consecration – right down to just before the Our Father. And that is okay.

Where a particular person cannot kneel – you have arthritis or you are a mother holding a baby – that is understood.

This was taken from a Q & A session with Cardinal Arinze that appeared in the Adoremus bulletin (www.adoremus.org)). Furthermore, the revised GIRM has this to say as well:

***In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. ***Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53

Therefore, the normal posture is kneeling. It is truly symptomatic of a greater problem when pastors and bishops order people to stand during the highest point of the Mass. We are really losing the sense of the sacred.

 

[StBenMom]

I was surprised to hear a Seattle Archdiocese person, I don’t remember his name, on Catholic Answers as an Authority on the
Church. The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here. Thats not the only abuse here. Catechetics, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist, The Sacrament.
It would be nice to have an orthodox bishop in Seattle who is strong, after 40 years of Hunthausen types.

That is NOT true!!! I attend a parish within the Seattle Archdiocese AND have attended services at St.James Cathedral. At NO time did we “stand” during consecration. We kneel. It saddens me to see people just post stuff as the truth when they don’t even have a clue about what they are speaking. Please, actually ASK someone from the Seattle area first before you say horrid stuff. I have NEVER stood during consecration EVER!!! And, I have lived here my whole life, as a Catholic. Gimme a break. You have OBVIOUSLY, NEVER met Archbishop Alex. He never FORCES anyone to do anything.
I pray for your lying soul. Hopefully you will see how hateful, hurtful and uneducated your remark was

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

That is NOT true!!! I attend a parish within the Seattle Archdiocese AND have attended services at St.James Cathedral. At NO time did we “stand” during consecration. We kneel. It saddens me to see people just post stuff as the truth when they don’t even have a clue about what they are speaking. Please, actually ASK someone from the Seattle area first before you say horrid stuff. I have NEVER stood during consecration EVER!!! And, I have lived here my whole life, as a Catholic. Gimme a break. You have OBVIOUSLY, NEVER met Archbishop Alex. He never FORCES anyone to do anything.
I pray for your lying soul. **BIT HARSH, DONT YOU THINK? ESPECIALLY WHEN SOME FOLKS HAVE SHARED THEIR EXPERIENCES IN THE SEATTLE AREA AND THEY CONCUR WITH THE OP ** Hopefully you will see how hateful, hurtful and uneducated your remark was

Perhaps not your church, but when I lived in the Seattle area the two churches I had attended did require it.

 

[StBenMom]

I am being harsh because the OP stated that the Archdiocese FORCES you to stand which is a LIE. Sorry if you think that the TRUTH is harsh. If you were forced to stand by the priest (and not due to small, cramped sanctuaries, or poorly laid-out floor plans…and “no kneelers” is NOT a good reason to stand) then you should have went to the Archdiocese to voice your concern. You should not, however, make blanket statements about something that may or may not have applied to one or two parishes. The parish I attend now is not the first parish I have attended in this Archdiocese, which, by the way, covers Western Washington and not JUST Seattle. And, to reiterate my first reply… I have NEVER been FORCED to do ANYTHING, let alone stand during Consecration. OK???

 

[Corki]

I am being harsh because the OP stated that the Archdiocese FORCES you to stand which is a LIE.

You should not, however, make blanket statements about something that may or may not have applied to one or two parishes. The parish I attend now is not the first parish I have attended in this Archdiocese, which, by the way, covers Western Washington and not JUST Seattle. And, to reiterate my first reply… I have NEVER been FORCED to do ANYTHING, let alone stand during Consecration. OK???

You ARE being harsh because you reacted to what you THOUGHT he was saying in stead of reading what he realy said. He said that this was being done in “many parishes here” and yet you call him a lier just because you don’t share his experience and accuse him of “not having a clue” even though he is in the same diocese.

Archbishop Alex? I hope you are related to him because that is not a very respectful form of address.

 

[pnewton]

and yet you call him a lier just because you don’t share his experience and accuse him of “not having a clue” even though he is in the same diocese.
.

I agree. Cut the OP some slack. He is not lying but rather sharing his feelings. He is obviously feeling pressure to stand and believes it to be a diocesan problem. It may in fact be a problem with a parish or two, but let’s not judge the OP.

 

[benedictgal]

I am not the moderator; however, I think that we have taken a turn for the worse with the way this discussion is heading. We need to exercise fraternal charity and not resort to name-calling. The OP did not make a blanket statement regarding his perceived situation in the Seattle Archdiocese. He said “many” (pro multis ), not all. Second, if we are to refer to our local Ordinaries or Metropolitans, let’s use Bishop (Last Name) and/or Archbishop/Cardinal (Last Name).

We need to show respect towards each other. This is not the Council of Nicea where the bishops were literally slugging it out until the Emperor showed up. Let’s have a civil discussion, always mindful that everyone needs to be respected.

Now regarding the OP observations, as I had posted here earlier, the norm in the United States is to kneel from after the Sanctus to after the Doxology (Great Amen). We stand for the Pater Noster. I think that Cardinal Arinze and the revised GIRM are very clear on that. Let’s try to keep this ship on course.

 

[StBenMom]

I was surprised to hear a Seattle Archdiocese person, I don’t remember his name, on Catholic Answers as an Authority on the
Church. The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here. Thats not the only abuse here. Catechetics, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist, The Sacrament.
It would be nice to have an orthodox bishop in Seattle who is strong, after 40 years of Hunthausen types.

Where have I misunderstood??? I think it’s prety clear there!! “The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here” and I am here to say that the Western Washington AD located in Seattle does NOT FORCE YOU TO STAND!!! It seems to me that if they have an issue with a parish “forcing” you to stand, then they should take it up with the Archbishop and not just go around saying that the Archdiocese FORCES you to do ANYTHING. It is not the Archdiocese or Archbishop Alex. It is an issue with a few parish priests who need to be “called to the carpet” by Fr. Alex. Now do you understand from where I am coming??? I read the post and I don’t see in it anywhere that says it was salvo’s “experience” in a few parishes. Read it again. I am not being harsh. I am defending our Archbishop and our Archdiocese. I will not, however, defend any priest who makes you stand during consecration. Am I clearer now???

 

[pnewton]

I am not being harsh.

Then why so much punctuation? Tone it down a notch. Perhaps the poster with issues just doesn’t understand the wokings of the diocese and the parish. Let us give him the benefit of the doubt and cool the jets on being so defensive.

 

[benedictgal]

Where have I misunderstood??? I think it’s prety clear there!! “The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here” and I am here to say that the Western Washington AD located in Seattle does NOT FORCE YOU TO STAND!!! It seems to me that if they have an issue with a parish “forcing” you to stand, then they should take it up with the Archbishop and not just go around saying that the Archdiocese FORCES you to do ANYTHING. It is not the Archdiocese or Archbishop Alex. It is an issue with a few parish priests who need to be “called to the carpet” by Fr. Alex. Now do you understand from where I am coming??? I read the post and I don’t see in it anywhere that says it was salvo’s “experience” in a few parishes. Read it again. I am not being harsh. I am defending our Archbishop and our Archdiocese. I will not, however, defend any priest who makes you stand during consecration. Am I clearer now???

While it is commendable that you are defending your Metropolitan (btw, it’s more respectful to refer to him by his last name, as I indicated in my previous post), perhaps you may want to take a calmer approach.

As Cardinal Arinze stated, the appropriate posture for the Eucharistic Prayer is to kneel. I believe that we all seem to have a consensus on that point. Redemptionis Sacramentum offers a remedy. First, the OP should discuss this with the pastor of the parish he is attending. If nothing happens at that level, then he must go to the local Ordinary (diocesan bishop). In this case, he must seek relief from the Metropolitan of the Archdiocese of Seattle (the Archbishop). If nothing happens there, then the OP can petition the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. The circumstances must be carefully documented from the very beginning. While I certainly can’t guarantee that the Congregation will personally contact the OP, the matter will be addressed, more liketly to the Metropolitan directly.

Nonetheless, let’s try to be respectful with each other and when making references to bishops and archbishops. Yours does have a last name, right?

 

[Veronica]

Our Archbishop is Archbishop Alex J. Brunett originally from Detroit via Montana. We are not forced to stand in the diocese of Seattle. Some parishes may be mislead doing so, but you are to kneel. Our parish does and many that we have attended do also, but I have heard of some that do not kneel nor do they have kneelers. If your the only one kneeling you do feel out of place. But kneeling is the norm of the GIRM.

 

[StBenMom]

I am not going to go into battles of wits with unarmed (or misinformed) individuals. You have no idea what my family or parish’s relationship is with the Archbishop so maybe YOU need to tone it down a bit and stop being so condescending. He prefers the informal, especially when dealing with the parish children. “Archbishop Alex” is a little less “scary” and more “accessible” to some kids who have never dealt with him before or have not had many cathedral experiences. Frankly, I have called him Most Reverend Father, Archbishop Brunett, Father Alex, Archbishop Alex…depends on the situation, really. The only issue I have with the OP is the fact that the OP is NOT sharing an experience, like puzzleannie. The OP simply states that the Seattle Archdiocese practically FORCES you to stand during consecration and that is not true. That is the ONLY statement I am debating here. I am not here to debate what my priest, parish or children/family call our Archbishop. Frankly, that is between our parish/children/priest and the Archbishop and is not really a matter for your concern. I am here to defend him and his Archdiocese. I am not defending a few select priests who seem to think you should stand during consecration. That is a matter to take up with the Archbishop. How can he help the lay people if he doesn’t know??? Again…just so everyone understands, I am defending the statement made by salvo1:

The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here

Not true…sounds like the people of the “afflicted” parishes need to see to it that their priest is “educated” in the correct and respectful ways.

As Cardinal Arinze stated, the appropriate posture for the Eucharistic Prayer is to kneel. I believe that we all seem to have a consensus on that point. Redemptionis Sacramentum offers a remedy. First, the OP should discuss this with the pastor of the parish he is attending. If nothing happens at that level, then he must go to the local Ordinary (diocesan bishop). In this case, he must seek relief from the Metropolitan of the Archdiocese of Seattle (the Archbishop)

Exactly my point, benedictgal BUT…you really shouldn’t concern yourself about what my children/family/parish calls him in an informal setting or any setting for that matter. It really, respectfully, is none of your business, considering you know nothing of my family or our Archbishop and what his request/preferences are.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program…