Forensic panel is blocked from Willingham case

[agnes_therese]

Your clear dislike of the governor is showing. You must be feeling threatened.

Apparently the organization that filed the complaint in the first place feels that the committee can do their job. How can that be if they were eviscerated?Stick to the facts of the case, counselor. The panel has not been hampered in completing the investigation that they were formed to do. Surely you don’t want them to stray from their stated purpose, do you?

Peace

Tim

You know, Tim, people can disagree with you without it being “political,” or “feeling threatened.”
The timing of Perry’s change in the membership of the panel is a VERY odd “coincidence.”

 

[Orogeny]

You know, Tim, people can disagree with you without it being “political,” or “feeling threatened.”

Of course I know that but Beau is an apologist for democrats. He has every right to that, but he doesn’t have any right to expect not to be called on it. This is about politics and nothing else.

The timing of Perry’s change in the membership of the panel is a VERY odd “coincidence.”

I was very upset when I first heard about this because it was reported on the news that the Governor had stopped the investigation and it was all over. Then I read the article in the Houston Chronicle that I have linked twice in this thread. That story didn’t jive with what I heard on the news. It sounded to me that all that was going on was that a legal opinion had been given by the AG. That legal opinion should actually help the panel do what they were tasked to do which is to determine a fire marshall’s obligation to notify the justice system that a method used to evaluate a scene was not valid. That is what the legislature set the panel up to do, not look into evidence of that trial or any other trial.

You find the Governor’s timing odd but not Beau’s post? Why do you think he posted it when he did?

Just to be clear, I think that, based on what I have read from the experts, Willingham was probably innocent of the charge he was executed for. I oppose the death penalty.

Also to be clear, I happen to like Beau. He and I are very different in our political outlook, but I don’t hold that against him.

Peace

Tim

 

[SamH]

There were four victims of that accidental fire – the three girls who died in the fire, and their father who was executed by the state on very bad “evidence.”

Correction, there were three victims and I would like to know where I assessed any blame towards them. As for the father, are you attempting to deny that he did what I said he did?

 

[agnes_therese]

Correction, there were three victims and I would like to know where I assessed any blame towards them. As for the father, are you attempting to deny that he did what I said he did?

No, there were four – the father died because of the fire, too, just much later. And you very clearly assigned blame to Willingham for his own conviction.

 

[agnes_therese]

You find the Governor’s timing odd but not Beau’s post? Why do you think he posted it when he did?

Tim

I expect most people post here when they have a chance to be on the forum.

 

[Orogeny]

I expect most people post here when they have a chance to be on the forum.

Beau’s posts about Governor Perry have nothing to do with how often he is able to get on the forum. He posted it because it looks like the Governor will run for president and Beau knows that he is a strong opponent to President Obama. The timing is not odd, it is obvious.

Peace

Tim

 

[agnes_therese]

Beau’s posts about Governor Perry have nothing to do with how often he is able to get on the forum. He posted it because it looks like the Governor will run for president and Beau knows that he is a strong opponent to President Obama. The timing is not odd, it is obvious.

Peace

Tim

He posted that news story 5 days after it appeared. Since you obviously can’t post a story before it appears/you’ve seen it, are you saying that we are required not to post any potentially negative stories about someone who “looks like” they’re going to run for President? Because that would mean no negative stories about Obama, since it certainly “looks like” he’s going to run for President. And I’m not sure the World News section of the forum could survive without those.

 

[SamH]

And you very clearly assigned blame to Willingham for his own conviction.

Yes I do. A year ago I spent a lot of time reading up on this event - the ONLY logical conclusion was that Willingham killed his children. Was some of the evidense questionable - yes - and it always is in case like this, but most of it was not.

 

[Orogeny]

He posted that news story 5 days after it appeared. Since you obviously can’t post a story before it appears/you’ve seen it, are you saying that we are required not to post any potentially negative stories about someone who “looks like” they’re going to run for President? Because that would mean no negative stories about Obama, since it certainly “looks like” he’s going to run for President. And I’m not sure the World News section of the forum could survive without those.

Agnes, you can stand up for Beau all you want. He is clearly an apologist for democrats, especially the President.

Why bash Governor Perry? The article was about a ruling made by AG Greg Abbott, not about an appointment by the Governor. Why not attack Abbott? Because he isn’t running for president, that is why.
Beau Ouiville:

Wasn’t Rick Perry the guy who let the execution proceed?

First off, what does that have to do with Abbott’s ruling? Second, as has been pointed out, the Governor can’t stop an execution, only delay it. So why bring him up? Again, what is the Governor apparently about to do?

Peace

Tim

 

[estesbob]

Texas executed a Hispanic man Tuesday night. . No surprise that his passing went unnoticed by the usual suspects. . I guess a poor Hispanic being executed is not nearly as important as the execution of a middle-class white man who’s death can be used to advance one’s political agenda.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Why bash Governor Perry?

Why not? He is the governor, after all.

Folks should understand that this thread has never been about Perry but about the totality of a state-sanctioned killing. Perry is just a side issue; like Gary Condit as to Chandra Levy.

Commenting on what anyone is an apologist for is really slamming the speaker, not the argument. And we all know what type of logical fallacy that is.

 

[estesbob]

Why not? He is the governor, after all.

Folks should understand that this thread has never been about Perry but about the totality of a state-sanctioned killing. Perry is just a side issue; like Gary Condit as to Chandra Levy.
.

Really-where were you Tuesday Night? Not a peep.

 

[Orogeny]

Why not? He is the governor, after all.

Why didn’t you go after the AG?

Folks should understand that this thread has never been about Perry but about the totality of a state-sanctioned killing. Perry is just a side issue; like Gary Condit as to Chandra Levy.

Which is why you brough him into your original post, right?

Commenting on what anyone is an apologist for is really slamming the speaker, not the argument. And we all know what type of logical fallacy that is.

Nope. Facts are facts and that particular fact explains why you decided to smear the Governor in the first post of this thread.

It is ok, Beau. We know you can’t help it.

Peace

Tim

 

[agnes_therese]

Agnes, you can stand up for Beau all you want. He is clearly an apologist for democrats, especially the President.

Peace

Tim

I’m just standing up for logic. And I see you didn’t address my point about your “timing” complaint.

 

[Orogeny]

I’m just standing up for logic.

Logically you would support Beau standing up for Democrats?

And I see you didn’t address my point about your “timing” complaint.

Your original point was about the timing of Gov. Perry’s change of appointments to the board, insinuating that it was politially motivated (as if anything that any politician does isn’t). I correlated that to Beau making this about the Governor for political reasons. It doesn’t matter when the article was written because that really wasn’t the point.

Did Perry change the membership of the board based based on political motives? Yes. Did Beau try to blame the AG’s ruling on the Governor for political reasons? Yes. That was my point. Everything a politician does is political and almost everything that Beau posts is political.

Peace

Tim

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Did Beau try to blame the AG’s ruling on the Governor for political reasons? Yes.

Sorry, you are wrong. The AG’s ruling is what it is. I did not blame it on Perry at all. It may be accurate. However, it is a shame that folks won’t even consider that they may have been wrong.

That was my point.

Then you were in error.

 

[StrawberryJam]

If someone else already posted this link to this topic, please ignore it.

I thought it was interesting.

salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/06/25/cameron_todd_willingham_rick_perry

From the article:

What do we know about the thinking that went into Perry’s decision to reject the request for a stay in 2004?

The only thing that we know is via Willingham’s appeals attorney, who spoke to someone in the governor’s office. That staffer said that the governor had taken a look at it and didn’t see anything that would warrant postponement of the execution. That’s basically all we know about it.

Reading the story made me wonder if Perry should be the one charged with a crime.

 

[Orogeny]

Sorry, you are wrong. The AG’s ruling is what it is. I did not blame it on Perry at all. It may be accurate. However, it is a shame that folks won’t even consider that they may have been wrong.

Well, let’s see. First there was an exerpt from the article at kansascity.com and then a link to the article. That was followed by this:
Beau Oiville:

In other words, if the state executed a man not guilty of the crime charged, they don’t want to know about it.

Wasn’t Rick Perry the guy who let the execution proceed?

So, let’s look at that. The title of the article, which you had no control over so it doesn’t reflect on you, is misleading in that it implies that the panel’s investigation has been blocked. It has not and I don’t think you believe it has been. However, it is misleading and I think you tried to take advantage of that.

Next, you insinuate that “the state” doesn’t want to deterimine if a man not guilty of the crime he was charged with, was executed by the state. Was guilt or innocence of Willingham the mission of the panel? Yes or no? I’m not interested in your opionon of what the task should be, but what the stated task is.

Next, why did you insert Rick Perry into the discussion? Guilt by association perhaps? Let me ask you, if you were arguing a case in court and the case was whether or not the AG’s ruling blocked the forensic panel’s investigation, would the judge allow your question about the Governor? What is the relevance, counselor?

There was no more reason to bring Rick Perry into the discussion than there was to bring in Ann Richards, the late governor who allowed many executions to proceed during her terms. Yes, Gov. Perry was the governor when this specific execution took place, but, as has been pointed out numerous times, he couldn’t stop the execution.

So, we have you citing and linking to an article and then spinning it into a political jab at the Governor. Deny it all you want, but it is clear that was what you were doing.

Peace

Tim

 

[estesbob]

If someone else already posted this link to this topic, please ignore it.

I thought it was interesting.

salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/06/25/cameron_todd_willingham_rick_perry

From the article:

What do we know about the thinking that went into Perry’s decision to reject the request for a stay in 2004?

The only thing that we know is via Willingham’s appeals attorney, who spoke to someone in the governor’s office. That staffer said that the governor had taken a look at it and didn’t see anything that would warrant postponement of the execution. That’s basically all we know about it.

Reading the story made me wonder if Perry should be the one charged with a crime.

You are aware the Governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence?

Power to commute a death sentence?

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

You are aware the Governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence?

Since he’s running for president, shouldn’t he be questioned on this issue?

Or maybe it would be more productive to just try to get a pardon for Willingham.