Foreplay Within Marriage

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Actually, God designed the male and female anatomy to be complimentary. Modern thinking has conditioned people to disregard this design.
 
Vonsalza said:
So in the eyes of the Church, masturbation doesn’t “count” as such if not taken to completion?
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Touching your spouse is not masturbation. Touching your spouse in certain ways to stimulate them to climax could be masturbation.
 
I don’t know what you exactly mean, but if it includes masturbation or a any genital activity, it’s not ok. Abstinence is abstinence of genital activity.

if it is just arousal, It could be smart, or not smart, depends of your owns conditions and reactions, but I believe it’s ok.
 
They can be open to life if they have intercourse on infertile time.

They cannot achieve united and open to life bond when they abstain because it’s the own of marital embrace.

And they can be open to life in other aspect of their life.
 
If you want your wife to climax, you probably have to do the latter though? It’s not common for women to achieve it through normal intercourse, hence we tend to hear about women not being satisfied enough
 
Lea101 said:
If you want your wife to climax, you probably have to do the latter though? It’s not common for women to achieve it through normal intercourse, hence we tend to hear about women not being satisfied enough
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The OP already established they were not having intercourse. My reply is within that context, not in the context of assisting the wife before/during/after intercourse.
 
Anicette said:
Abstinence is abstinence of genital activity.
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That is certainly true as far as the rules for some NFP methods.

It is not accurate to say that spouses cannot (morally) engage in any genital contact because they do not intend to have intercourse. The Church does not teach that.
 
Yes, he said it’s ideal for the couples to climax together… but I believe he also said it’s licit for the man to help his wife immediately after his completion.
The “women must lay back, close their eyes and think of England” variation of Christian sexual morality gets tiresome.
 
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Vonsalza said:
You see, the feminine nerve center for sexual stimulation - the clitoris - is not in the direct path of friction in typical intercourse. It’s located juuuust above that path (unlike the male nerve center, the glans, which is front-and-center).
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I don’t need a biology lesson.

Note you say “typical” intercourse. I assume you mean the “missionary” position.

There are other positions that facilitate the stimulation of the clitoris. And there is no rule that says that the man can’t use hands within the context of normal intercourse.

The sin occurs when stimulation happens outside the context of normal intercourse.
 
twf said:
The “women must lay back, close their eyes and think of England” variation of Christian sexual morality gets tiresome.
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If I was drinking coffee, I’d have spat/blown it all over my screen.

Entirely too funny…
AdamP88 said:
I don’t need a biology lesson.
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🤔
Note you say “typical” intercourse. I assume you mean the “missionary” position.
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No, I meant “vaginal”.
There are other positions that facilitate the stimulation of the clitoris.
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Not with the mechanical function of penetrative, reproductive sex, there isn’t.

The reality is that the male orgasm is essential to the reproduction of most sexual species while the female equivalent is not essential. Your designed/evolved form reflects this fact.
And there is no rule that says that the man can’t use hands within the context of normal intercourse.
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Hard-liners on masturbation might disagree with you here.
When we cite the statements of Catholic officials rather than authoritative writ, we would likely agree that the topic being debated lacks an element of certainty.

Either way, Catholic sexual norms appear to be enough of a boondoggle that we can all appreciate why priests generally reply “consult your conscience” rather than engage with all this conflicted policy.
 
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Abstinence is avoiding sex.

If the goal is avoid a pregnancy, in NFP, the stance is to avoid genital activity.

The otherwise would be conjugal masturbation.

Please quote the official text claim that a NFP couple is free to engage in any activity they want during fertile times vs chaste NFP.
 
In order for a sexual act to be procreative (open to life), that act itself must be so ordered, inherently. You can’t perform sexual acts to climax, other than natural intercourse, and then have natural relations days later, and claim that it is all open to life.

It is a bad idea to try to see how much sex you can get away with, on fertile days when you have decided to abstain. Some limited foreplay would be moral, but if you are trying to avoid intercourse, that seem counterproductive.

The rules are the same for husband and wife. If an act is masturbation for the husband, than it is so for the wife. She is not under a different set of rules, such that she could climax (apart from natural intercourse) on Monday, and then have natural relations on Wednesday, as if the latter act justifies the former.
 
Vonsalza said:
Not with the mechanical function of penetrative, reproductive sex, there isn’t.

The reality is that the male orgasm is essential to the reproduction of most sexual species while the female equivalent is not essential. Your designed/evolved form reflects this fact.
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You might want to educate yourself on the Gräfenberg spot.

Also, the contractions to the female vagina during orgasm help to move the semen, the cervix sort of dipps down and moves the semen up with each contraction.

God’s design is perfect.
 
AdamP88 said:
Forgive me if I don’t take your word for it.
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You needn’t. Anatomy isn’t subject to opinion.
TheLittleLady said:
You might want to educate yourself on the Gräfenberg spot.
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I’m familiar.

The science of it isn’t even 100% convinced it exists. Not all women claim to have this phantom anatomical feature and those that do often disagree on where it is.
TheLittleLady said:
Also, the contractions to the female…
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I never said it wasn’t beneficial. I only said that it’s not reproductively necessary. And it’s not. Most women report being unable to climax from regular vaginal intercourse at all; yours and Adam’s objections duly noted.
TheLittleLady said:
God’s design is perfect.
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Verily, but creation has fallen. 😦
 
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1ke said:
Depends on whether you fool around and stop (fine) or fool around and climax in some other way (manual/oral) without intercourse (not fine).

So in the eyes of the Church, masturbation doesn’t “count” as such if not taken to completion?

Touching your spouse is not masturbation. Touching your spouse in certain ways to stimulate them to climax could be masturbation.
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Masturbation is touching oneself. Touching your spouse is not masturbation. Mutual masturbation is not spouses touching each other. It is spouses touching themselves simultaneously.
 
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You know the word “foreplay” is a word that covers a lot of territory now a days, at what people mean by it, and what they do.

I don’t think people have to be sexual. You can love someone, without that aspiration. Whether someone is applying NFP, or just that spontaneous relationship being open to life, the unpredictable. Regardless, love is the first, foremost, and primary role in anyone’s marriage and institution. Love, romance, and drama are key roles. Jesus died on the Cross, was suffered, bruised, and beaten out of love for us. To save us from our sins.

I doin’t know, saying to your wife she is beautiful? Reading a story together? Telling stories, laughing with each other. Read a play by Shakespeare together. Even with the archaic words, laugh together. See the brilliance, beauty, and joy being together in a relationship, and enjoying each other in it. Wherefore the aspirations are not sexual.

The beauty that espouses a romantic relationship will be pre-cursors of your marital vows to each other. It should happen naturally. And, I’d even suggest, when that matrimonial vow/gift reaches to the bedroom, I’d say take time together and pray the Rosary. Offer your entire selves in the state of prayer. Offering your heart, mind, and soul to God. For Christ’s first Commandment: Love thy God…and love thy neighbor (wife, children, or child to be into existence.) A sanctifying and holy union in marriage.
 
Blessings
At least you and your wife are practicing NFP. I don’t know, personally, Foreplay can be frustrating, if whole act can’t be completed. It’s only 6 days? Abstainence isn’t a consideration? Abscence makes the heart grow fonder. I’m old and maybe be forgetting frisky times??
May the Lord guide you in the path of His way. If you love Me, keep my commandments.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice
 
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