Forgave those who trespassed?

[argio]

I’ve overheard a growing number of pray-ers use the past tense of “trespassed” in the Our Father. One is my wife. For decades, I’ve suggested she also use “forgave” to be grammatically correct. Is your forgiveness in real time or in the past?

 

[pianistclare]

I had a similar thing when teaching an 8th grade class:
When reciting the Fatima prayer I noticed that instead of saying
“especially those in most need of Thy mercy”
a student was praying
“especially those who mostly need Thy mercy”.

 

[JRKH]

I’ve overheard a growing number of pray-ers use the past tense of “trespassed” in the Our Father. One is my wife. For decades, I’ve suggested she also use “forgave” to be grammatically correct. Is your forgiveness in real time or in the past?

Can’t say I’ve heard this…but I suppose it doesn’t surprise me either.

To answer your question - - since every present second proceeds immediately into the past, it is reasonable to say that all forgiveness is in the past.

However, since we can have difficulty in truly forgiving and putting things behind us, forgiveness can be ongoing so continually in the past and present and (hopefully) in the future.

As to the matter of how we pray the Our Father, I think that the petition really applies to all periods - past, present and future. We are petitioning to be treated by our Lord in the same manner that we have treated others - that we ARE treating others and how we intend to treat others in the future…

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James

 

[paperwight66]

Something equally unfortunate happens in our parish.

The Angelus is said before midday Mass, and at least one person says ‘And she was conceived by the Holy Spirit’.

 

[ProVobis]

I’ve overheard a growing number of pray-ers use the past tense of “trespassed” in the Our Father. One is my wife. For decades, I’ve suggested she also use “forgave” to be grammatically correct. Is your forgiveness in real time or in the past?

The literal translation from the Latin would be:​

Et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
And forgive us debts our,

sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris.
just as we forgive debtors our.​

The translation we use I believe was one which Henry VIII mandated. It seems that “our debtors” would be the same as “those who trespass” against us. Could also be “have trespassed” (present perfect), I suppose:shrug:

 

[thistle]

Can’t say I’ve heard this…but I suppose it doesn’t surprise me either.

To answer your question - - since every present second proceeds immediately into the past, it is reasonable to say that all forgiveness is in the past.

However, since we can have difficulty in truly forgiving and putting things behind us, forgiveness can be ongoing so continually in the past and present and (hopefully) in the future.

As to the matter of how we pray the Our Father,** I think that the petition really applies to all periods - past, present and future. ** We are petitioning to be treated by our Lord in the same manner that we have treated others - that we ARE treating others and how we intend to treat others in the future…

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James

I agree with that.

 

[IrishAm]

Forgiveness is an on-going process; anyone who has ever been deeply wounded knows that. Ergo, it is never past tense. It is always past, present and future . . .