Forgive my ignorance

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Churches sui iuris Deprived of Hierarchy

Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris “entrusted to hierarchs (not of the Rite) who preside over (the Church) as per the norms of common and particular laws” (hierarchs locum tenens) are those which were never formally organized with a hierarchy or have only vacant Sees.

Belarusan Greek-Catholic Church

The hierarchical jurisdiction, the Apostolic Exarchate for the Byzantine Belarusan Catholics, is sede vacante and has been since after WWII, when the Church was suppressed and the repose in exile of Bishops Cheslav Sipovich, MIC, and Vladimir Tarasevitch, OSB, both of blessed memory, the last Byzantine Belarusan hierarchs. The Church’s rights were restored in 1989, but the See has not been reconstituted.

Right Reverend Father Archimandrite Sergius Gajek, MIC, is presently Apostolic Visitator ad nutum Sanctae Sedis for Greek-Catholics in Belarus and Right Reverend Father Archimandrite Alexander Nadson, MIC, is Apostolic Visitator for Belarusan Greek-Catholics Outside Belarus.

Georgian Greek-Catholic Church

The Apostolic Exarchate of Istanbul for the Byzantine Georgian Catholics has been sede vacante since the martyrdom in odium fidei of the Servant of God Father Archimandrite and Exarch Shio Batmanishviii, of thrice-blessed memory, by the Communists in 1937.

His Excellency Bishop Louis Pelâtre, AA, [Latin] Vicar Apostolic of Istanbul is locum tenens. The viability of the Church is in question. There is a single parish and less than 500 faithful, but at last report there are no clergy of the Church and the pastoral care of the faithful is in the hands of other Byzantine clergy in the city.

Russian Greek-Catholic Church

This Church has two canonical jurisdictions with no formal canonical relationship between the two, and neither’s hierarch was ever singularly designated as presiding. Thus, they technically constitute separate Churches sui iuris, although they represent a single entity for purposes of counting such Churches.

The jurisdictions are:

The Apostolic Exarchate of Moscow for Byzantine Russian Catholics in Russia and the Apostolic Exarchate of Harbin for Russian Byzantines and All Oriental Rite Catholics in China. Both are sede vacante since the martyrdom in odium fidei of their incumbents, Blessed Father Archimandrite & Exarch Kliment Sheptitsky and the Servant of God Father Archimandrite & Exarch Fabian Abrantovic, MIC, both of thrice-blessed memory, under the Communists. The Church’s last hierarch, Bishop Andrei Katkov, of blessed memory, an episcopus ordinans without jurisdiction, reposed in 1996.

(Technically, the Albanian Greek-Catholic Church is also of this category, as an Apostolic Administrator, is not a presiding hierarch in the strictest definition of that phrase.)

Communities with Jurisdictions but without sui iuris Status

There are a small number of other ethnic communities of Eastern Catholics that have never been formally accorded their own sui iuris status but have distinct jurisdictions within various sui iuris Churches. These principally are the Czechs, Macedonians, Serbians, and Montenegrons.

(continued)
 
Ordinariates for Faithful of the Oriental & Eastern Rites

There are also jurisdictions termed ‘Ordinariates’. Historically, these have been jurisdictions within a predominately Latin Rite nation for Faithful of the Eastern & Oriental Rites within that nation who are not under the pastoral care of a hierarch of their own Church.

Ordinariates are generally erected in places where there are a substantial number of Eastern or Oriental Catholics but no canonical jurisdiction of their own Church has yet been erected. The Ordinary is usually the principal Latin hierarch in that country.

Presently, the following Ordinariates exist:

Ordinariate of Argentina for Faithful of the Oriental Rites
His Eminence Jorge Mario Cardinal Bergoglio, SJ, Ordinary

The authority of the Argentinian Ordinariate does not extend to Armenian Catholics, Maronite Catholics, or Ukrainian Greek-Catholics, as those Churches each have an Eparchy in Argentina, nor does it encompass Melkite Greek-Catholics, as that Church has an Apostolic Exarchate in Argentina.

Ordinariate of Austria for Faithful of the Eastern (Byzantine) Rites
His Eminence Christoph Cardinal Schönborn, OP, Ordinary

The authority of the Austrian Ordinariate is limited to Byzantine or Eastern Catholics, as the only substantial Oriental Catholic presence is Armenian and that Church has its own Ordinariate for areas of Europe not within any of its other canonical jurisdictions.

Ordinariate of Brazil for Faithful of the Oriental Rites
His Eminence Eusébio Oscar Cardinal Scheid, SCI, Ordinary

The authority of the Brazilian Ordinariate does not extend to Maronite Catholics or Melkite Greek-Catholics, as those Churches each have an Eparchy in Brazil.

Ordinariate of France for Faithful of the Eastern (Byzantine) Rites
His Excellency André Armand Vingt-Trois, Bishop Ordinary

The authority of the French Ordinariate is limited to Byzantine or Eastern Catholics, as the only substantial Oriental Catholic presence is Armenian and that Church has an Eparchy in France; it also does not include Byzantine Ukrainian Catholics, as that Church has an Apostolic Exarchate in France.

Ordinariate of Poland for Faithful of the Eastern Rites
Józef Cardinal Glemp, Ordinary

The authority of the Polish Ordinariate does not extend to Ukrainian Greek-Catholics, as that Church has both an Arch-Eparchy and an Eparchy in Poland. (The Polish Ordinariate has reported no numbers for several years now, likely as a consequence of the fact that virtually all Byzantine Catholics in Poland are of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church.)

Ordinariate of Russia for Faithful of the Eastern Rites
His Excellency Joseph Werth, SJ, Bishop Ordinary

The formal canonical erection of a Russian Ordinariate has not been announced, although Bishop Werth has been designated as Ordinary for Faithful of the Eastern Rite in Russia.

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Western Church and Rites

The Latin Rite and Church are (as mentioned above) the largest of the Rites and Churches of the Catholic Church.

The Latin Rite presently includes a single formal ‘Usage’, termed the Anglican Usage, which is ordinarily permitted to be served in only certain desgnated parishes in the United States.

An indult exists for the celebration of the Mass in Latin according to the Tridentine ritual, a form that predates the Novus Ordo, presently the normative manner of its service. There is also a very limited indult in existence for the so-called ‘Glagolitic Mass’, which is said in an ancient Slavonic language that is not a vernacular tongue (the term is a misnomer, as ‘Glagolitic’ is the alphabet in which the liturgical service books are written, rather than the tongue in which the Mass is said). Neither indult is properly termed a usage.

Within the Latin Church, there are also three Rites that are ordinarily limited in their celebration to certain geographic locales and to only specific churches within those. These are:
  • Ambrosian Rite
  • Bragan Rite
  • Mozarabic Rite
Additionally, there are eight Religious Order Rites within the Latin Church. The service of these is restricted to those clergy of the respective religious orders and, in some cases, to certain feast-days or houses of the order to which they are applicable. The Rites are:
  • Benedictine Rite
  • Carmelite Rite (or Rite of the Holy Sepulchre)
  • Carthusian Rite
  • Cistercian Rite
  • Dominican Rite
  • Franciscan Rite
  • Norbertine Rite (or Premonstratensian Rite)
  • Servite Rite
Many years,

Neil
 
Additionally, there are a number of Churches that term themselves “Catholic” under a variety of rationales, but are not in communion with Rome. These Churches make varying claims of Apostolic Succession, some of which are unquestionably valid, others being of uncertain validity.

The Churches are:
  • the Eastern Orthodox Churches
  • the Oriental Orthodox Churches
  • the Assyrian Church
  • the Ancient Church of the East
  • the Old Catholic Churches of the Utrecht Confession
  • the Polish National Catholic Church
  • the self-described “Old Catholic Churches” that are not in communion with that of Utrecht
  • the Churches of the so-called “independent and/or autonomous Catholic/Orthodox movements”
Add to that the several Churches that don’t easily fit into any of the above categories, such as the non-Roman Catholic Churches of Brazil and the Phillippines, the Anglo-Catholics, the Evangelical Catholic Church (with origins in Catholicism and Lutheranism), and others.

Many years,

Neil
 
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Dimmers:
I always thought there was one Catholic church and had no idea there was different RITES and different practicing Catholics in general.

This explains why when I lived in Queens, New York (Astoria) I would see these really tall nuns wearing all black (kinda scary looking) with these really large Crucifix around their wastes. Also I would see similiarly dressed Priests that resembled Hassidic Jews picking up children at the local schools. From what I have read these would be Greek Orthodox Catholics. Very interesting stuff.

You’ve all been kind to educate me, thanks for the answering.
Dimmers, the Greek Orthodox are not Catholic although they claim to be. The Greek Catholics use an identical liturgy to the Greek Orthodox (the liturgy of St John Chrysostom). There are however Greek Catholics that are in communion with Rome that come under different sui juris (particular Church) jurisdictions (bishops). Of these, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest. Check out www.byzantines.net and www.ugcc.org/eng/.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
Well, it’s something I’m taking more literally for a change. Although I disagree with you, I respect your opinion.
That’s not just my opinion. It’s the teaching of the Church.
Incidentally, I received a response from Pope Benedict to a letter I wrote him last year. It was very nice.
Getting a response to a letter you wrote him last year does not mean you are Catholic. Surely, that is not what you meant to imply. :confused:
 
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havemercy:
Ah, thanks for clarifying…HERETIC!

Jokes, jokes. I’m Catholic (its been a few months), and I’ve got a LOAD to learn. Things are still a little muddy though. Is there a thread somewhere else that talks about the church you belong to?

And perhaps this colossal tangent can carry itself over to a new thread. Hmm…?
lovetony
LOL! That was pretty good. Congratulations on finding the Catholic Faith. I hope you enjoy your journey.

There is no thread addressing the particular church I belong to here. If you have questions you could email me privately. I would also like to see the thread return to the OP’s topic as I am interested in learning about the various Rites, Jurisdictions.
 
Semper Fi:
You seem to place a great deal of authority in having bishops which have been validly ordained (though illicitly). However, you still appeal to the Pope to prove your case… you say stuff such as “even the Pope recognizes our bishops as valid” (paraphrase). I am wondering why you, as a Christian not in Communion with Rome would put such stock into what the Catholic Church says about your jurisdiction? It would seem to be an antithesis to appeal to the Pope to prove that your bishops are validly ordained…
My reference to the Pope and the See of Rome was solely for the sake of those who do place an emphasis on the necessity of being recognized by them for ordinations to be “valid.” It doesn’t matter to me personally or to the Reformed Catholic Church, as far as I understand.

I’m not trying to prove anything here. I just offered a response to the OP and have spent the rest of the time more or less responding to attacks and persecution. Such is life. LOL
 
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DeFide:
This is false. It is an infallibly-defined article of faith that the Church is unique and one. The faith is one. If you are schismatic, then by definition, you do not share the one faith of the Catholic Church. Christ did not establish multiple competing systems of truth.

It is particularly unsavory that a non-Catholic is posting such information under the label of being some sort of Catholic.
And such is the argument for exclusionism. Not very ecumenical are we? Or are you rejecting that part of Vatican II? So much for brotherly love and embracing others. “Love one another as I have loved you…”- who said that?

I don’t believe there are “competing systems of truth,” there’s just one. It’s astounding to me how one can judge something as “competing” or entirely invalid without knowing anything about it. Oh, well.
 
It is particularly unsavory that a non-Catholic is posting such information under the label of being some sort of Catholic.
As you know nothing about me, I would continue to encourage you to refrain from your prejudice and negative characterizations.
 
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Eden:
That’s not just my opinion. It’s the teaching of the Church.

Getting a response to a letter you wrote him last year does not mean you are Catholic. Surely, that is not what you meant to imply. :confused:
Well then I respect it as a teaching of the Church, although my personal interpretation arrives at a some what different conceptualization.

No, I did not imply that getting a letter from the Pope makes one Catholic. My point was that the Pope was wonderfully delightful, respectful, and encouraging. A contrast to what I have experienced here.

I have other reasons to consider myself Catholic.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
Well then I respect it as a teaching of the Church, although my personal interpretation arrives at a some what different conceptualization.
As long as you admit that it’s your personal interpretation and not based on fact, then we are on the same page.
No, I did not imply that getting a letter from the Pope makes one Catholic. My point was that the Pope was wonderfully delightful, respectful, and encouraging.
Glad to hear it. I agree he is wonderful.
A contrast to what I have experienced here.
It would not be in your best interest for anyone to lie to you here and entertain your belief that you are Catholic. The Pope is not a registered member of this forum (ha! :rotfl: ) but I am sure he would agree that your denomination is not a rite of the Church.
I have other reasons to consider myself Catholic.
Well, then you will continue in the erroneous belief which is based only on personal interpretation.
 
It would not be in your best interest for anyone to lie to you here and entertain your belief that you are Catholic. The Pope is not a registered member of this forum (ha! :rotfl: ) but I am sure he would agree that your denomination is not a rite of the Church.
I would not expect anyone to lie to me here. I would expect what I consider to be common courtesy and a refrain from ridicule from some of the other posters here. It’s great to disagree, but it’s all in how it is done.
Well, then you will continue in the erroneous belief which is based only on personal interpretation.
No, actually, it is an accurate belief based upon my Baptism into the Roman Catholic Church on June 4, 1972. 😉

And you never know, the Pope may have one of his people here posing as a troublemaker just to stir things up a bit! LOL
 
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ReformedCatholic:
No, actually, it is an accurate belief based upon my Baptism into the Roman Catholic Church on June 4, 1972. 😉
No. That just means you have a valid Christian baptism. When you or anyone else leaves the Church to join another faith, you are no longer a Catholic. That’s called an “ex-Catholic”.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
And such is the argument for exclusionism. Not very ecumenical are we? Or are you rejecting that part of Vatican II? So much for brotherly love and embracing others. “Love one another as I have loved you…”- who said that?

I don’t believe there are “competing systems of truth,” there’s just one. It’s astounding to me how one can judge something as “competing” or entirely invalid without knowing anything about it. Oh, well.
How does your church define ecumenism? (This is a serious question, because there is ecumenism and there is false ecumenism- How are they different?)

As for charity, your posts haven’t been exemplary either: note the above quote.

Isn’t the above quote a judgment? (judging others)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Eden:
No. That just means you have a valid Christian baptism. When you or anyone else leaves the Church to join another faith, you are no longer a Catholic. That’s called an “ex-Catholic”.
LOL, who said I’ve joined another faith? A whole other discussion, but it doesn’t matter… we’ve gotten way off track here and I’d just refer folks to Irish’s posts as the most comprehensive answers to the OP’s question.
 
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Nicene:
How does your church define ecumenism? (This is a serious question, because there is ecumenism and there is false ecumenism- How are they different?)

As for charity, your posts haven’t been exemplary either: note the above quote.

Isn’t the above quote a judgment? (judging others)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
In all honesty, I’m not sure how they define it in terms of ecumenism vs. false ecumenism, I’ve just recently learned of the concept of “false ecumenism,” so it’s just something else I’ll have to study.

This guy’s been insulting and ridiculing me for three days and my comments were in response to the general tone of disrespect to make a point. I find it interesting that you call me out on being “uncharitable” but no one has done so for your peer- although you do imply that in your statement indirectly.

Yes, it is a judgement of demonstrated behavior, but not of the person.
 
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ReformedCatholic:
This guy’s been insulting and ridiculing me for three days and my comments were in response to the general tone of disrespect to make a point. I find it interesting that you call me out on being “uncharitable” but no one has done so for your peer- although you do imply that in your statement indirectly.
You are presume wrongly. I would check the other threads where I have posted to other catholics the same. Once you look them up we can discuss falsely accusing your brother, and reconciling with him.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
In all honesty, I’m not sure how they define it in terms of ecumenism vs. false ecumenism, I’ve just recently learned of the concept of “false ecumenism,” so it’s just something else I’ll have to study.
It’s a worthy study. In a nutshell false ecumenism requires that you abandon previously held beliefs in order to facilitate reunion. So basically for example, the church has never taught “faith alone”, it isn’t scriptural nor tradition, nor in patricitics. False ecmenism would require us to abandon that belief in order to facilitate reunion. In other words, “Faith without works is dead” - James.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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