Forgive them. They know not what they do

[Ron_Conte]

This verse from Luke:
{23:34} Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do.” And truly, dividing his garments, they cast lots.

seems to me a broad statement, not solely referring to persons who were involved in the Crucifixion of Jesus. I interpret it as a statement of the role that invincible ignorance might play in the path of salvation of many different sinners.

Jesus’ teaching is intended by Him to speak to the people of every generation. I deplore the type of critical analysis of Scripture which assumes the narrowest possible scope for Jesus’ sayings. And His words from the Cross, in particular, pertain to that salvation which is offered and truly concretely available to all persons.

 

[GEddie]

A definite maybe!

ICXC NIKA

 

[LittleFlower378]

I love this verse. Remember Jesus isnt saying I forgive you to his murderers. He is asking the Father to forgive them. If someone will not recognize the pain they have caused you even after confronting them, then we like Jesus can offer them up to the Father. Its an act if mercy. Great read called “Forgiveness” bybtwo Jesuit authors.

 

[eazyduzit]

He is in effect saying He forgives them. He is paying for their sins with His own blood. We are the same. When we sin we really don’t know what we’re doing.

Have you ever seen “The Robe” with Richard Burton?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

From the Catena Aurea on Lk. 23:34:

BEDE. …] He prayed not for those who chose rather to crucify, than to confess Him whom they knew to be the Son of God, but for such as were ignorant what they did, having a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge, as He adds, For they know not what they do.

GREEK EX. But for those who after the crucifixion remain in unbelief, no one can suppose that they are excused by ignorance, because of the notable miracles that with a loud voice proclaimed Him to be the Son of God.

 

[PJM]

=Ron Conte;13414383]This verse from Luke:
{23:34} Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do.” And truly, dividing his garments, they cast lots.

seems to me a broad statement, not solely referring to persons who were involved in the Crucifixion of Jesus. I interpret it as a statement of the role that invincible ignorance might play in the path of salvation of many different sinners.

Jesus’ teaching is intended by Him to speak to the people of every generation. I deplore the type of critical analysis of Scripture which assumes the narrowest possible scope for Jesus’ sayings. And His words from the Cross, in particular, pertain to that salvation which is offered and truly concretely available to all persons.

A astute observation my friend:

From our Catholic Catechism

CCC #1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

CCC# 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

CCC# 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

So what you suggest is manifested CONDITIONALLY with love and Mercy through our Catholic Church. Amen!

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[fhansen]

This verse from Luke:
{23:34} Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them. For they know not what they do.” And truly, dividing his garments, they cast lots.

seems to me a broad statement, not solely referring to persons who were involved in the Crucifixion of Jesus. I interpret it as a statement of the role that invincible ignorance might play in the path of salvation of many different sinners.

Jesus’ teaching is intended by Him to speak to the people of every generation. I deplore the type of critical analysis of Scripture which assumes the narrowest possible scope for Jesus’ sayings. And His words from the Cross, in particular, pertain to that salvation which is offered and truly concretely available to all persons.

I think there’s always at least a degree of ignorance in all sin.

 

[PJM]

=fhansen;13415542]I think there’s always at least a degree of ignorance in all sin.

My friend, your position does not align with the Teachings of our Catholic Faith and Church

From our Catholic Catechism:

CCC # 1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.*** There is sin which is mortal;*** I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"

God Bless you,

Patrick