Forgiven Sins & purgatory

[d.l.ee]

I am in RCIA, and will soon make my first confession. When I make my confession, and I am forgiven of these sins, will I still have to pay for them in purgatory? Will I still have to pay for venial sins or mortal sins or both in purgatory? Does paying penance take care of sins on earth so we don’t have to pay for them in purgatory? Does penance have to be paid within a certain time in order to not have to pay for those sins in purgatory? Am I completely off base with what happens in purgatory?

Sorry for the wall of questions - just trying to better understand how the forgiveness of sins, penance, and absolution affects my time in the afterlife.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[otjm]

I think “pay for the” is looking at it the wrong way.

You may not have ever been with someone who was dying; I have been with several. And contrary to popular opinion, each and every one of them (and likely, the vast multitude who die) still had a predilection to sin. The term "concupiscence might appropriately apply. We all have a tendency toward sin, and most of us die with that tendency still as a part of “who we are”. And that has to be worked out, or purged, before we have the beatific vision.

That is not to say there is no need for recompense for the sins we have committed; but let’s take an example. Someone who has a hair trigger to anger is going to lash out at people; the action is often out of proportion to the matter at hand. Near their death, they may be less prone to that hair trigger reaction, but less prone means that it is still there to some extent. That individual may have been very devout also, and been granted many indulgences for their past behavior; but the tendency is still there. That needs to be rectified/purged, and that too is part of the issue of purgatory.

There are pious commentaries by various saints who have reported visions, and among them are comments about someone being in purgatory “until the end of time”.

For starters, we are not required to believe that is necessarily true; in addition, a soul has no body so there is no time dimension as we understand time; so the commentary may be taken with a grain or two of salt. We don’t know, and the Church does not say, how long or what the process is in purgatory; but anyone there is guaranteed heaven, or they would be elsewhere. And we often hear stories about the pain of purgatory; not physical pain; but certainly there is emotional pain or something near it that we all experience when trying to overcome our unwanted tendencies.

 

[MAS79]

Basically once God forgives our sins there is still temporal punishment due for them which is either paid for in this life through penance (say through suffering/prayer/good deeds/sacrifices etc) or in the next in Purgatory before eventually reaching Heaven.

but just in my opinion… very few are pure enough upon earthly death to completely avoid purgatory and go straight to Heaven. sure, we all would like to dodge purgatory but it’s more difficult to do than we all think it is.

EDIT: I like otjm’s post above as that gives a bit more details which make sense when you think about it as we can’t even have the slightest blemish on our souls when we reach Heaven and we all probably have some level of tendencies towards some sins, even if only small ones, which needs to be purged from us before reaching Heaven.

 

[d.l.ee]

Thank you both! Your responses are very helpful!

 

[John_Martin]

Check this out: The Last Things Part I | SoftVocation Practicing forgiving yourself finds you beginning to be fully suited for being in the presence of God.

John Martin

 

[Dan_Defender]

but just in my opinion… very few are pure enough upon earthly death to completely avoid purgatory and go straight to Heaven. sure, we all would like to dodge purgatory but it’s more difficult to do than we all think it is.

I agree. And how long and what kind/intensity of punishment is open to debate. On the one hand, every debt must be paid. On the other hand, we entrust the matter to God’s justice and mercy.

 

[joseie]

Once you confess your sins,and you do the penance as ordered by the priest you are completely absolved of the punishment of the sin because we believe that Jesus has given authority to the priest to absolve one from sin. To believe that priest can give only partial relief is against the very principles of confession and against bible.

 

[Richca]

God bless you in being in RCIA and soon to make your first confession. Penance is a virtue and a sacrament and there are three parts to it, namely, contrition, confession, and satisfaction. Every sin carries with it guilt and a debt of punishment either eternal such as mortal sin or temporal such as venial sin. Jesus forgives us our sins and their guilt in confession and the eternal punishment if we had any mortal sins to confess but not necessarily all the temporal debt of punishment we incur from our sins. The priest gives us a penance or satisfaction to perform after our confession to atone for at least some of the temporal punishment we incur from our sins but this satisfaction or penance may not satisfy completely for our debt. Really, God only knows and it depends on our dispositions and cooperation with God’s grace. It is possible that our contrition or sorrow for our sins itself and which sins we confess in confession can eliminate all the debt of punishment we have incurred from our sins provided we still perform the penance the priest gives us. However, we can’t know this for sure so it is a good idea to perform works of penance following the way of the cross of Jesus. Works of penance or satisfaction can simply be fulfilling our daily duties for the love of God and our neighbor and in fact every good work or action we do whether in thought, word, or deed while in the state of grace has a satisfactory and atoning value to it.

The Church’s doctrine and granting of indulgences is another way of satisfying for lingering temporal punishment for our sins or which we can also apply for the souls in purgatory. Indulgences are either plenary or partial. Plenary indulgences remove all the debt of punishment we owe while partial indulgences remove some of it. A single plenary indulgence can be gained every day while we can gain an unlimited number of partial indulgences every day. The Church’s official manual and doctrine on indulgences can be found here:
https://d2wldr9tsuuj1b.cloudfront.net/3189/documents/2018/4/Indulgences_v2.pdf

Ideally, when we die here on earth, we should be ready to go straight to heaven. But, if we are not and we die in the state of grace free from mortal sin but not free from all venial sin and all debt of punishment we have incurred, than we go to purgatory to be purified for the full and complete remission of our sins before we enter heaven.

 

[d.l.ee]

Thank you so much for you response. This was immensely helpful! Thank you also for your note on indulgences as I also had some confusion about that.

 

[Richca]

Your very welcome. Concerning the idea of satisfaction or making reparation for our sins which is the third part of the virtue and sacrament of penance, see the APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA OF POPE PAUL VI in the appendices of the Manual of Indulgences in the link I gave you. Pope Paul VI explains this very well according to the catholic faith, divine revelation and the Tradition of the Church. As the manual states concerning indulgences, indulgences which are works of reparation or penance and satisfaction for our sins, they are not meant to replace the sacraments or the fulfilling of our daily duties according to our state in life though the Church offers us partial indulgences in the fulfillment of our daily duties throughout the day in one of its general grants just by lifting our minds to God or reciting some short invocation while performing our daily duties. Visiting the sacraments themselves such as Mass and confession is a form of penance, indeed, the sacrament of confession is called the sacrament of penance. So, going to confession regularly is doing penance and since the sacraments are the Church’s principle means of acquiring God’s grace, they are really the most powerful means at our disposal of doing penance for our sins simply by receiving the sacraments. Indulgences which are granted by the Church through the infinite mercy of God are like an addition to the sacraments since we can’t be in confession or at Mass all day every day but we have responsibilities and duties to perform in life such as going to work and supporting our families.

Indulgences are a beautiful doctrine of the Church especially the plenary indulgences which a person is capable of obtaining every single day by quite easy works and fulfilling the other general obligations concerning plenary indulgences. The three major grants or works concerning plenary indulgences are (1) a half hour of prayerful reading of Holy Scripture; (2) a half hour visit to the Blessed Sacrament; (3) the rosary prayed alone in front of the Blessed Sacrament or anywhere with a group. Actually, I believe doing the Stations of the Cross like at some Church a person can gain a plenary indulgence too.

 

[HopkinsReb]

I am in RCIA, and will soon make my first confession. When I make my confession, and I am forgiven of these sins, will I still have to pay for them in purgatory? Will I still have to pay for venial sins or mortal sins or both in purgatory? Does paying penance take care of sins on earth so we don’t have to pay for them in purgatory? Does penance have to be paid within a certain time in order to not have to pay for those sins in purgatory? Am I completely off base with what happens in purgatory?

Sorry for the wall of questions - just trying to better understand how the forgiveness of sins, penance, and absolution affects my time in the afterlife.

Thanks for all your help!

It’s worthwhile to think about the word “Purgatory.” You’ll notice that its root word is not punishment – it’s not “Punishmentory.” Its root word is “purge.” You’re not weeds fed to the flames, reduced to ash. You’re clay put in the kiln, emerging perfected. Purgatory is there to complete God’s transforming work, not to punish you.

 

[halogirl]

See this is not what I’ve been taught by either former Methodist church or on RCIA re a ‘punishment’. My priest said it’s a process of purification where you see fully what impact you had on others in life so more like a review. And it’s a letting go. Yes this might be really painful emotionally but you are not being punished as Jesus took the punishment on himself.

 

[halogirl]

This is how I was taught

 

[Beryllos]

Am I completely off base with what happens in purgatory?

Who knows? I think of Purgatory as a kind of Boot Camp (military basic training). It might be painful, but it makes you better, and you can be glad for that. You are better off getting yourself in shape before Boot Camp, but if you don’t, they can fix that, and you will be fine by the time you graduate from it.

 

[Wesrock]

See this is not what I’ve been taught by either former Methodist church or on RCIA re a ‘punishment’. My priest said it’s a process of purification where you see fully what impact you had on others in life so more like a review. And it’s a letting go. Yes this might be really painful emotionally but you are not being punished as Jesus took the punishment on himself.

I agree with HopkinsReb that the root of the word purgatory is “purge” and the general point of that. However, the Church does specifically speak of temporal punishment and eternal punishment. Nowadays it seems most people attach an entirely negative connotation to punishment, but I think it needs to be seen as disciplinary. We discipline our children with various forms of punishment because the correct types of punishment can be corrective and character building. Such it is with Purgatory. The disciplinary punishment we receive in Purgatorgy is character building and rehabilitative and helps us break our attachment to sin. I don’t see why we can’t also connect this to the idea of justice in general. That seems to turn people off for some reason.

 

[Genesis315]

“expiate” or “make satisfaction” are the words you’re looking for.

Think of it this way: if you steal $100 bill, but later regret it and go to confession and are forgiven–the “stain” of your sin remains with you: the $100 bill is still in your pocket! Returning it (or, if that is not possible, giving it as alms) rids you of that stain. You can’t just say “Jesus paid the price of my sin” and keep the money.

All sin has a kind temporal stain of injustice that is not wiped away by confession. It is expiated by penance–prayer is a common penance because by it we give some honor back to God that we did not give him when we sinned. Or perhaps we partook of some illicit pleasure of the flesh–fasting to deprive ourselves of some licit pleasures or comforts would be a way to make expiation.

The penance commonly given in confession is not intended to expiate the confessed sins completely. That’s why we are encouraged to engage in prayer, fasting, and almsgiving at other times too, but especially during the Church’s penitential days and seasons and most of all by “patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death” as the Catechism notes when discussing temporal punishment (CCC 1473).

Since we are all one body in Christ, we can make satisfaction for one another. An indulgence is simply the application of this.

Satisfaction or expiation not made in this life is completed after death by what we call Purgatory.

 

[halogirl]

I find all this difficult. My Methodist background tells me He took our punishment on Him for eternity. He paid so we didn’t have to. It’s not punishment it’s preparation

 

[Wesrock]

I find all this difficult. My Methodist background tells me He took our punishment on Him for eternity. He paid so we didn’t have to. It’s not punishment it’s preparation

If a father finds that his son has stolen something from a store, he might go to the store and pay the store back in full to prevent his child from going to jail, so his child will not be condemned. However, he would still discipline the child at home, not out of vengeance, but for correction, so that the child may be a more perfect human being, because it’s not just a matter of preventing him from going to jail and leaving him as he is, but about transforming the child into a better person.

 

[halogirl]

That makes total sense but hopefully he does a lot of this thru our trials in this life