Forgiveness FAQ

  • Thread starter Thread starter Socrates4Jesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tweety said:
Of course…
Click to expand...
Would you be willing to let me explain what i believe God has shown me forgiveness is to you? And then will you ask him what he thinks?

You won’t have to memorize scripture or anything. You might just tell him you talked to this guy who heard you were going to meet with the good friar and he asked you to ask him.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Would you be willing to let me explain what i believe God has shown me forgiveness is to him and ask him what he thinks? You won’t have to memorize scripture or anything. You might just tell him you talked to this guy who heard you were going to meet with the good friar and he asked you to ask him.
Click to expand...
Of course… I am hoping that we catch up, it is not set in concrete, but we do most times… God willing… as he is ever so popular and people bring him down here to be the Celebrant at weddings, Baptisms, etc…and when he gets to have a break and see his family as they do not far from our city. He is ministering to an aboriginal community and he loves it. 🙂 He can normally only stay 5-7 days, and i’m praying now that we catch up… But of course i would… 🙂
 
Excellent! I will not be with you in person, but i will be there in spirit. You can be my mouth and ears. I can explain what i think forgiveness is, you can tell Fr. Dave, he can give you his response, and you can tell me what he said.

You will have to ask us both questions, of course, to be sure you understand each of us correctly. That way you will convey correctly what we both have to say to each other. You will be like God’s messenger between the two of us. What an awesome thing it would be if the God had something to say to me through the good friar! 👍
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Excellent! I will not be with you in person, but i will be there in spirit. You can be my mouth and ears. I can explain what i think forgiveness is, you can tell Fr. Dave, he can give you his response, and you can tell me what he said.

You will have to ask us both questions, of course, to be sure you understand each of us correctly. That way you will convey correctly what we both have to say to each other. You will be like God’s messenger between the two of us. What an awesome thing it would be if the God had something to say to me through the good friar! 👍
Click to expand...
I cannot promise he will come to my home… and i cannot speak on his behalf that he will, but he did last June when he had a week off and came here and said a Mass, and he dropped in quickly to our city about 6 or 8 weeks ago to do a wedding and he was too busy to get to mum’s, so she met him at the Monastery and he lent my mum a little relic to help her as she has bad health and my husband and i are having trouble conceiving a second child… well we did conceive, but had miscarriages, and now we cannot conceive at all… anyway, she must return it to him when he returns. If he does come to my home i will ask him… i hope you will be online when and if he does. 🙂 We have a 15 hour time difference i think… it is 10.20pm roughly here, what time is it there? He is awesome!
 
I’m a chronological thinker, taking one truth at a time until i arrive at the truth of something. Here is how i have, at the moment, arrived at what i think the truth about forgiveness is.

What is forgiveness?

(1) Forgiveness is an act of love.

(2) St. Paul lists several acts of love in 1 Corinthians 13.

(3) He says love is gentle, kind, patient, etc.

(4) All of the acts of love he lists can be shown to someone who does not need to be forgiven, except one.

(5) The only act of love he lists that cannot be shown to someone who does not need to be forgiven is to “keep no record of wrongs”.

(6) Each of the other acts of love are not forgiveness. Rather, they are some other way of loving.

Conclusion: The only act of love that is forgiveness is to “keep no record of wrongs”.
 
This is an important task i am asking you to take on for me, Matey! I will be there with you in spirit, but as a deaf and mute one. You must be careful to understand what i’m asking you to ask him. Therefore, please ask me questions about anything you do not understand of what i said.

🙂
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
This is an important task i am asking you to take on for me, Matey! I will be there with you in spirit, but as a deaf and mute one. You must be careful to understand what i’m asking you to ask him. Therefore, please ask me questions about anything you do not understand of what i said.

🙂
Click to expand...
No, i comprehend what you wrote, and i will also let him see that if he comes over, as that will help him too i think…

I see how you get to your conclusion. He is a very loving and Christ like priest in my, and lots of people’s eyes and believes wholly in forgiveness - i know that because he also helped me forgive the man who molested me. I was at a funeral and my aunty was supposed to sit with my mum and myself and as i walked into the Church i saw her sitting in the same row as her husband who she had separated from (the man who lolested me) and i started shaking etc… (this was before i forgave him) and i got up and said to mum that i had to go and i could not take him being in MY Catholic Church and i felt sick and had to get out of there - right in the middle of a funeral of a very dear family friend… Well, mum asked me to stay for Jesus and that he was there with me… I didn’t want to stay, but i did. She told me afterwards that God looks upon that with a smile. I did something i did not really want to do - but i did it for the Glory of God. I was suffering and i gave my suffering to Jesus that day - once again… I understood years later what mum meant that day…

Anyway after it had finished, i could not leave the Church and Jesus. I sat there shaking and crying at the thought of being so close to that man… and Fr Dave came over and consoled me, and when he put his hand on my forehead, i calmed down… He had a healing touch to say… He was the Priest (my mum moreso) who got me back practising in the Church again, he said : “What is one hour a week to go and be before God?” And when i thought about it, i thought how selfish i had been with my time all those years. I always loved the Church and the faith, but got turned off by little things and people and stopped going to Mass. I would argue with people FOR the Church, NEVER against it - yet didn’t participate any more… Then mum came back too and that lead in turn to me coming back…

PS I just saw your most recent post, i had a little break to get a drink… excuse my ingnorance but what does BRB stand for?
 
It’s shorthand for be right back.

Fr. Dave sounds like a good man and one i’d like to meet. Perhaps when i get to the other side of eternity you can invite me over to chat with the two of you. That would be cool! 🙂

I hope you will also ask him two questions for me next time you see him:

First, should we love in our thoughts and words only, or also in our actions?

Second, what actions show that we have really kept no record of wrongs?
Got to run to work, Matey. So many computer woes to fix, so little time!

Talk with you later.

🙂
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
It’s shorthand for be right back.

Fr. Dave sounds like a good man and one i’d like to meet. Perhaps when i get to the other side of eternity you can invite me over to chat with the two of you. That would be cool! 🙂

I hope you will also ask him two questions for me next time you see him:

First, should we love in our thoughts and words only, or also in our actions?

Second, what actions show that we have really kept no record of wrongs?
Got to run to work, Matey. So many computer woes to fix, so little time!

Talk with you later.

🙂
Click to expand...
Not a problem… Those 2 are easy to do…

I’m off to la la land… zzzzing…

Have a great day at work.

Tweety 😃
 
Yes, they might be easy to ask but not so easy to answer. This one might he harder to ask, for it is a question that might offend lesser people. However, from your description, Fr. Dave seems a man after God’s own heart and one who is not easily offended.

The third question i hope you will ask is this: Is there ever a time when it is good and righteous and virtuous to keep a record of wrongs?
 
No, he would not be offended easily… i don’t think he would? The main thing is that he is a Man of God, and adores Jesus. I know one thing, and that is that he believes in forgiveness (ok, he has to, as he is a priest… But, he ‘really’ believes in it… ) He was the best parish priest that his parish ever had, and so many people feel like that. The priest who took over is an awesome young priest also, but Padre Dave as i call him, showed his parishioners love, had no problem ringing them, would go to their homes and give them the Holy Eucharist if they were sick… He really was a shephard looking after his flock… God has given him such a gift… We miss him terribly, but God has put Fr Chris in his place and he is just as awesome, just maybe not so forthcoming with affection… But just as awesome, i had the most wonderful confession with Fr Chris… Face to face… He just got back from East Timor… God has given all these young priests from The Missionaries of God’s Love - such BIG ❤️ ❤️. My mother was a part of the Disciples of Jesus, a group who take a covenant to live as true Christians, be humble etc…That was through the MGL’s. Mum was part of it for over 10 years, but her health makes it impossible for her to attend the meetings, seminars and Masses like she once used to… So she left the group last year. They were her community… and it was a little Community - they really care and look out for eachother, and love Jesus. They believe in evangelising also. My mother has been outside the abortion clinic here and prayed outside it, (all very peaceful, no nutcases running around screaming and shouting, no harrassing women or anything like that… just praying the Rosary etc… for the poor little babies/fetus’)

Now, one thing i haven’t told you is that they are a Charismatic order. Now, since i have joined CAF, i realise that *that puts off some Catholics (not me) and i just realised that i have not mentioned it to you before… So you may not *want me to ask him questions, and if that is the case, i will not be offended. 🙂

Well, we all had a good sleep, but winter is approaching and we are all coughing and sound like dogs barking… My beautiful mama is very, very sick with this flu thing and i pray she doesn’t get pneumonia as that could kill her as she is so frail, has lost weight and has a lung diseace - bronchiastatis in which she cannot cough up all the phlegm and it sits in the bottom of her lungs… they have warned us that pneumonia will probably be the thing that kills her. She can cough for over an hour without stopping and that in turn gives her an asthma attack, and her heart beats so fast that i fear she may have a heart attack too…

Well, have a great night i suppose i should say to you, as it is 7.55am here and that would make it 4.55pm over there… Your day at work is just about over i hope… My DH is home today! He normally works Saturdays too, but not today… Joy! Yippee! Yahoo! What shall we do? Where shall we go? He and Braden are rumbling in bed together… i have to go join them!😃 😃
 
🤷

Q. 9b. Is forgiveness only that attribute or act of love that “keeps no record of wrongs” (1 Corinthians 13:4)?

Does anyone think the answer to this question is “No”?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Jesus words cause me to consider this, Guano. As i mentioned earlier, He said

“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.”
(Luke 17:3)
I read this and i see repentance as a condition. Jane and others are telling me that Jesus means we should forgive both those who repent and those who do not (in short, we should forgive everyone). If this is the truth, i think Jesus would have made it easier for me to see it if, instead of saying, “if he repents” He would have said, “regardless of whether or not he repents”.
Click to expand...
I do not think it is a condition, Socrates. I think Jesus is saying, once yoru brother turns from his wrong way, don’t continue to rebuke him. Put it behind you and MOVE ON! One has to take this into account along with the rest of Jesus words on forgivenss. He makes it clear that if we do not forgive, neither will our heavenly father forgive us. He demonstrated how to forgive, as he did so while they were nailing Him to the cross. No repentance is required. Welcome, perhaps, but not required.
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes. Anabaptists (such as those in Amish communities) and Quakers resolve the issue by saying they will commit no violence, not even in self-defense or to protect those they love. I believe their course of action is a consistent one, but not necessarily the one Jesus wants.

I was in the U.S. Army for a time, and never shot anything but targets made to look like men. I wonder how someone who believes he should forgive everyone, regardless of what they do, reconciles shooting a man dead with forgiving him?

Me, i would say, “Love always protects, but it does not always forgive. If my enemy tries to harm me, rather than forgive him, i must protect myself and others.” To say i forgive him and then pull the trigger to cause his death would make me a hypocrite, i think. Of course, if he were to lay down him weapon and surrender, i would have no choice but to forgive him and treat him as i myself would want to be treated were i in his situation.
Click to expand...
I think love always forgives. It means not to hold their sin against them. That does not mean that their sin will not be held, but giving up our wrong thinking that we somehow are privileged to hold it. It is damaging to hold, and “vengence is mine, saith the Lord…I will repay”. Harboring resentment is arrogance and taking on the perogatives of God.

As a student of the martial arts, I must disagree with you about the use of force. Force does not necessarily imply anger, resentment, or unforgiveness. One can actually protect oneself and one’s loved ones from an inner place of forgiveness and peace. That does not mean one would not move to cause wrong action to stop. What is hard for us, as human beings, is to keep our righteous indignation out of it, as the anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God.
Socrates4Jesus said:
In two chapters of Luke i find two examples of Jesus using the word everyone but not meaning absolutely everyone without exception. Therefore, i do not think it unreasonable to say it is possible that what Jesus means by the words you quoted is

“Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us [and who later shows she has have repented by her words and actions].” (Luke 11:4)
Click to expand...
The flaw in this, Socrates, is that you are not God. God has the right to wait for repentance, where we do not. He will not be damaged by holding unforgiveness and resentments, because He is not mortal. On the other hand, the failure to forgive will make human beings very ill, spiritually, psychologically, and physically.
 
guanophore said:
I do not think it is a condition, Socrates. I think Jesus is saying, once yoru brother turns from his wrong way, don’t continue to rebuke him. Put it behind you and MOVE ON! …
Click to expand...
Yes, i agree, Guano. Once a person repents you and i should not keep a record of that wrong any longer. 👍
 
guanophore said:
… I think love always forgives. It means not to hold their sin against them. That does not mean that their sin will not be held, but giving up our wrong thinking that we somehow are privileged to hold it. It is damaging to hold, and “vengence is mine, saith the Lord…I will repay”. Harboring resentment is arrogance and taking on the perogatives of God.
…
Click to expand...
Are you saying then, Guano, that i should forgive by:

(a) Keeping no record of wrongs in my thoughts, but keeping a record of wrongs in my words and deeds?

or

(b) Keeping no record of wrongs in my thoughts and words, but keeping a record of wrongs with my actions?

or

(c) Keeping no record of wrongs in my thoughts, words and deeds?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top