Forgiveness FAQ

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You should forgive her as soon as she is genuinely repentent.It is hard to forgive sometimes but Jesus likes us too.
 
Teeliumtrozzle said:
You should forgive her as soon as she is genuinely repentent.It is hard to forgive sometimes but Jesus likes us too.
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That is exactly what i have been saying, but i’ve received much criticism for my belief, Teeliumtrozzle!

Tell me, please, why do you believe repentance is sometimes required before you forgive a person?

(BTW, i love the shamrocks 'cause i’m at least 25% Irish.) 👍
 
Teeliumtrozzle said:
You should forgive her as soon as she is genuinely repentent.It is hard to forgive sometimes but Jesus likes us too.
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Teeliumtrozzle! Good to have you aboard this little bobbing thread! Everyone, so far, on this thread also believes that one should forgive another person “as soon as she is genuinely repentant.” Everyone, so far, on this thread also realizes that forgiveness, even when a sinner is repentant, is sometimes incredibly hard. We all agree!

In addition, we have have a general agreement that God requires repentance of Christians in order to receive His forgiveness, but we are still at odds about how we ought to relate to one another (not being God, ourselves, with all knowledge of a person’s heart and perfect Wisdom, Mercy and Love).

Where we are at odds is whether you are obligated to withhold your forgiveness from someone who does not meet your conditions for forgiveness.

The two conditions which Socrates4Jesus has brought forth are:
  1. a person must be repentant in order for you to forgive her. He does not make the “genuinely repentant” qualification, so I’m guessing there may an issue regarding perfect contrition versus imperfect contrition.
  2. a person must be ignorant of the sin in order for you to forgive her. In this case, we haven’t really determined the measure of ignorance necessary to warrant forgiveness.
Without one of these two conditions being met to your satisfaction (proof, etc.), Socrates4Jesus, contends that you should not forgive another person.

Others on this thread offer a third option:
3) a person can forgive another person as a free act of Christian charity, regardless of his or her contrition and/or culpability. This thrid option, drawing on the parable of the moneylender (Luke 7), recognizes that sometimes a free, unconditional act of forgiveness among men can move a previously unrepentant heart to love, contrition, and transformation.

So, do you agree with Socrates4Jesus that you are required to withhold forgiveness until you can perceive someone is repentnant or ignorant? Or, do you consider #3 a possibility within the scope of Christian charity?

PS. . .I recently heard on my favorite local Christian radio station that they are sending missionaries to finally bring Christianity to Ireland!!! 😉
 
:confused: OK maybe I am having a slow brain today, or I just tried to read so much my brain has turned to mush. My question is: “Is it possible to forgive someone who wronged you horribly without forgiving the acts they commited?” "Isn’t it God’s place to forgive them for their acts, especially if this person feels they have done nothing wrong?’ I guess I could be more specific, my best friend and my husband had an affair, a couple of years ago, and I worry about my soul. My husband and I have worked out our problems, he has very deep regrets and all has been forgiven, and life is great for us. This woman however lives within blocks of our home (she just moved in) and brought back all of the old memories, and I still am having difficulty forgiving her. I do not know that I can actually forgive her acts, but for my soul I pray daily that God will forgive me for harboring a lack of forgiveness for her and that he would place this in my heart. Can someone help me with these issues?

Thank you,
scarlet405:confused:
 
Jane:

Thank you for answering those questions! So you, the good doctor and myself agree that my pardoning a person for his sins against me and my cancelling a debt owed to me are acts of forgiveness. I’m not sure what Phil believes, as he does not want to tell me, and we are still waiting for Chuck to give us his opinion. Chuck seems a reasonable sort of guy, so i imagine he will agree us, too.
 
I think we are now getting near the end of this discussion, Jane, and i want to thank you for sticking with me despite my nearly driving you to your wits end. Perhaps after i’ve been gone from this forum for awhile you will look back and think, “Dear old Soc was a stubborn arse, but i suppose miss him.” (I know i shall miss you.) Maybe you might even thank God for me (or perhaps i’m hoping for too much) for my helping you better articulate the truth, as you see it, about forgiveness. I’d like to also thank you for showing me where i was in error so that i might draw closer to the truth about forgiveness. Getting closer to the truth, i believe, is essential to getting closer to the One who is the Truth, who is Jesus.
 
I understand that these are acts of forgiveness. What I am having trouble with is forgiving where the offender feels they did nothing wrong when they hurt you. To quote the offender, “That is life, deal with it and grow up.” How do you forgive that, let alone the actual acts?
Scarlet405:confused:
 
scarlet405 said:
:confused: OK maybe I am having a slow brain today, or I just tried to read so much my brain has turned to mush. My question is: “Is it possible to forgive someone who wronged you horribly without forgiving the acts they commited?” …scarlet405:confused:
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Scarlet:

Here is what i have learned thus far. (And you should consider yourself blessed, as we here have done all the hard work of digging up this treasure chest of truth and you have wandered up to us on the beach just as we lift the lid to reaveal the treasure we have shed blood, sweat and tears to obtain.)

That treasure of the meaning of forgiveness is this: If by forgive you mean “to cease to feel resentment against” then the answer to your question is yes. You should, unconditionally, forgive people in this way even if they do not feel sorry for what they have done or try to change their behavior.

If by forgive you mean “to pardon them for their wrongs against you or to cancel any debt they owe you as reparations for their wrongs” the answer, i believe, is no. That is, you are not required to forgive in this way unless they repent. Now, if they truly feel remorse for the wrong they have done to you, and if they promise to not commit this sin again, and if you believe you can trust them, then i would think you possibly should forgive them (by forgive i mean personally pardoning them for their sins and cancelling their debts owed to you). Those are a lot of ifs, but even if you decide they are not sincere in their repentance you should forgive them by not feeling resentment against them.

What do you think, Jane, did i give Scarlet good advice?
 
🙂 Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for. I want to be able to forgive the person, even if my heart cannot forgive the acts. I feel that is God’s place, and the person must first be willing to admit wrong doing and want forgiveness. We as mere humans cannot forgive acts for which there is no regret, but we can for the person and the human condition. I think my heart has been telling me this for a long time, but I was having a hard time believing it to be that simple. Thank you so much for your help, you do not know how much better I feel right now.

My on-line just went off, so when it pops back on I will post this and try to view the message, that was when it went off.

Thank you again and May God BLESS YOU!
Scarlet405
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
What do you think, Jane, did i give Scarlet good advice?
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If by forgive you mean “to cease to feel resentment against” then the answer to your question is yes. You should, unconditionally, forgive people in this way even if they do not feel sorry for what they have done or try to change their behavior.
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Yes, good advice.
If by forgive you mean “to pardon them for their wrongs against you or to cancel any debt they owe you as reparations for their wrongs” the answer, i believe, is no.
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This, of course, is where the waters get murky. As DrPiano has pointed out, even God’s own forgiveness does not cancel all consequences for sin.
That is, you are not required to forgive in this way unless they repent.
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Actually, yes, I agree. You are not “required to forgive.” Actually, I think this applies to ceasing to feel resentment as well. You are not “required to forgive” in general, unless a person is repentant or incuplable.

HOWEVER, neither are you “required not to forgive” until a person repents or until you perceive their ignorance. You can, out of love, forgive another sinner unconditionally in the hope that this act of charity will move their hearts and change their lives.

Forgiveness, among men, needn’t always be conditioned upon repentance and ignorance. Forgiveness, among men, can be a response to God’s Love for us.
Now, if they truly feel remorse for the wrong they have done to you and if they promise to not commit this sin again and if you believe you can trust them, then i would think you possibly should forgive them.
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The problem here, as we have already discussed, is that your perception of another person’s feelings of remorse can be skewed by your own hurt and pain. Promises can be spoken without proper intention. Trust is not necessary for forgivness.
 
scarlet405 said:
🙂 Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for. I want to be able to forgive the person, even if my heart cannot forgive the acts. I feel that is God’s place, and the person must first be willing to admit wrong doing and want forgiveness. We as mere humans cannot forgive acts for which there is no regret, but we can for the person and the human condition. I think my heart has been telling me this for a long time, but I was having a hard time believing it to be that simple. Thank you so much for your help, you do not know how much better I feel right now.

My on-line just went off, so when it pops back on I will post this and try to view the message, that was when it went off.

Thank you again and May God BLESS YOU!
Scarlet405
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Don’t take my word for it Scarlet; listen to Jesus:

"This, then, is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
(Matthew 6:9-15)

I believe Jesus, here, is speaking of forgiving by ceasing to feel resentment against someone, by not holding a grudge. This is an unconditional kind of love.

“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”
(Luke 17:3-4)

I believe Jesus, here, is speaking of forgiving by pardoning a person for the wrongs she has done to you. This is a conditional kind of love. It often (thought not always) requires a person to repent before she should be pardoned.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”
(Luke 17:3-4)
I believe Jesus, here, is speaking of forgiving by pardoning a persons for the wrongs she has done. This is a conditional kind of love that often (thought not always) requires a person to repent before she should be pardoned.
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Breakthrough! 🙂
 
Socrates4Jesus. . .I’d like to give you a celebratory gift. . .I think you’ll really like it!

Go here. . . wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors

When you have nothing else to do. . .Have a bit of fun for your old friend, Jane! 😉 I really love this site. . .I think your wife may enjoy it, too!
 
I do so want to thank you for all of the help. You have made things so much more clear for me. I have been dealing with what God wanted of me and what I felt was right, but the extra issues were getting in the way. I am ready to forgive and hold no malice, as I know God would want me to. I just knew that unless they admitted to wrong doing and were seeking forgiveness, I did not have the power or the wish to forgive the acts. Now it is clear to me that I can pray and ask God for forgiveness and ask him to intercede in her life, that maybe she can see the error of her ways and ask forgiveness of him. I am glad to know that this does not mean that I have to forgive sins, because I place that responsibility with God. He knows the hearts of “Man”. My trust has been so shattered that I am just know getting it back, but with her I have none because in her eyes she has done nothing wrong. If she sees herself as having done nothing wrong, then she is more than capable of making the same mistakes again and ruining someone else’s life. Pray for me as I pray for her. It is the only way that I will find “Perfect Peace” in my life.

Thank you both again for your help and your knowledge. You have really been HEAVEN SENT. :angel1:
May God grant you both Peace and Bless You,
scarlet405
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Jane:

Thank you for answering those questions! So you, the good doctor and myself agree that my pardoning a person for his sins against me and my cancelling a debt owed to me are acts of forgiveness. I’m not sure what Phil believes, as he does not want to tell me, …
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You are too funny Mr Soc4Jesus! I agree with you all. I am of the belief that both aspects of forgiveness - resentment or pardoning - are most perfectly dealt with unconditionally. I know you have some issues with the unconditional pardoning aspect, but that is OK. You have still come a long way from when we started and although I got cranky at times :o it has been a beneficial experience and I thank you and the rest of the Endless Forgiveness Debate Team as well.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
That is exactly what i have been saying, but i’ve received much criticism for my belief, Teeliumtrozzle!

Tell me, please, why do you believe repentance is sometimes required before you forgive a person?

(BTW, i love the shamrocks 'cause i’m at least 25% Irish.) 👍
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I sort of agree with you Soc and I have had a good weekend with much prayer and confession and family talk of truth. We aired things out no big outbursts and no condeming each other, some forgiveness. I have been reading along and it has helped thanks to you all. Blessings to you, Dessert
 
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