Forgiveness for non-Catholics possible?

[ALLFORHIM]

Sounds like water down Christianity to me… I don’t believe in the Protestant concept of eternal priesthood that all believers are infallible… IMO

Hi,
I certainly wouldnt say infallible just redeemed. I still sin I consider water downed christianity to be when people are taught that if they are good and they treat people with love and they do this and do that they will go to heaven. That is taught everywhere Ill tell ya what–you should come visit my church and I bet ya you will walk out of there thinking we do not water anything down.

Peace

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Although I don’t share your beliefs either, I do have many loved ones that are Protestant and we strive to stay united as much as possibe against the anti-Christ spirit of the world. I respect your love for the Bible, and that you seek the truth of Christ.

As I’ve said, Christ never intended for any of His sheep to have to figure out which Church was true. It wasn’t a multiple choice question until the Reformation, which was caused by the ignorance of men on BOTH sides of the split. The sinful men in the Church at that time did as much damage as the reformers. Now we’re all suffering for it.

In Heaven, the Body of Christ will be no longer be divided. In the mean time, as Catholics it’s our job to try and bring the rest of the separated sheep home. It’s really tough, especially being mindful of people’s feelings. Sometimes hurt is caused unintentionally. After all, this is quite serious stuff we’re talking about.

I pray that I may learn true patience, charity, and understanding toward my Protestant Brothers. Please pray for me.
Peace be with you.

Hi, I ditto what 4given said. One thing that might help you is to think of us as christians as well, instead of separated brethren. I think of catholics as my brothers and sister in Christ. I actually had never heard the term separated brethern till I came here.

 

[Ceil-1]

I love my brothers and sisters who choose to seperate themselves from the Church. I have a hard time with it, though, because it caused me to lose my faith and wander off to other pastures looking for the “perfect” religion.

The confusion it brought led me to sin, and that can’t possibly be from the Holy Spirit. No, the division in the Body of Chirst is a work of the devil, but those in these Protestant sects are no more or less causalties of this spritual warfare than Catholics. We are all in dangerous waters, perhaps we more than they. After all, to whom much has been given, much will be demanded. With our graces we should all be Mother Teresa’s and St. John Vianney’s

I knew coming home to the Catholic Church was the best decision because of the heights of sanctity it brings to so many, albeit relatively few of us. There are many holy Protestant people, but they pale in comparison to a Mother Teresa, St. John of the Cross, an apostle or any of the martyrs of the Church. Oh there may be a Protestant here or there who dies for his faith, but not many.

I think anyone who is content with their faith, and level of relationship with Jesus is in big trouble. Complacency is a dangerous frame of mind when it comes to our souls. I would be second-guessing that attitude.

 

[nkelly]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
No more hi-jacking please!

Please have a look at post #36. I’ve heard the protestant position several times now and I don’t need it to be explained to me again.

1. I’m an trying to establish what the Catholic Church teaches on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians!
2. If (mortal) sins can be forgiven by going directly to God, why is the sacrament on confession necessary? Again I would like to hear the CC’s position on this.

Thanks,
Noel.

 

[nkelly]

OK, now I’ve taken deep breaths and calmed down.

I’d like to get this thread going again.

Ignoring what has gone previously, I’d like to start with these
questions:

1. What does the Catholic Church teaches on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians.
2. If (mortal) sins can be forgiven by going directly to God, why is the sacrament on confession necessary? Again I would like to hear the CC’s position on this.

Thanks,
Noel.

 

[jam070406]

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9810fea2.asp

 

[nkelly]

Thanks Jam, I’ll read this tonight.

God bless,
Noel.

 

[Danno2281]

When I read the verses you posted I see that Jesus forgave sins while He walked the earth

However, here’s what He said after He ascended into Heaven. All Christians used to understand this…

John Chapter 20:

21
(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Since then our forgiveness from Christ has come from those to whom He gave the power to forgive sins. (Priests)

<>
McKevin

Hi ,
I believe that that ability died with the death of the last Apostle. IMHO the Apostle made disciples out of many people and so on and so on right down till today. God is clear in Scripture about this. In Acts and 1 John that I gave you was after Jesus had ascended.

How curious that Jesus would commission men to forgive sins only from the time of His resurrection to the death of the last Apostle. Do you believe that He wanted the “laying on of hands”(1Tim:4,14;5,22;Acts:6,6; 8,17;2Tim:1,6) to impart the powers of the apostles, or was it a transmission of nothing. Remember that what Jesus once wanted, He always wants - “the Same, yesterday, today, and forever.”(Heb:13,8).
And, by the way, that same applies to the “rapture”, a non-biblical teaching (except for the rapture following the resurrection of the dead that Paul speaks of in 1Thes: 4,17)that contradicts Christ’s expesss desire,“I DO NOT ask that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.”(Jn:17,15)

 

[kimball1]

Noel,

First I want to say that I know only just a few Catholics that according to their own religion are going to heaven. The Catholic church dogma says that missing the “Sacrifice of the Mass in and Unbloody Manner” on Sunday (or Saturday evening, or whatever “counts”) is a mortal sin, in which upon their death, they would go directly to hell if not getting to confession. Yet these same Catholics are sure not to eat meat on Friday. (See I Timothy 4:3) They say they don’t believe that part. Sounds like the cafeteria salvation plan. (pick and choose).

The bad news is that all sin is mortal. Mortal means death dealing, and Venial means easily forgiven. The Biblical truth is that Romans 6:23 says, 'For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." As far as sins that are easily forgiven, I Corinthians 7:23, “You were bought at a price.” To say anything about Christ’s death was easy is way off. If we are to be saved, we must put our trust in Jesus Blood, which he sacrificed once and for all.

Hebrews 7:27 says, "Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” What this means is that even demons know about the Trinity, the Deity of Christ and the Bodily Resurrection. So why can’t they be saved. The answer is simple: The Blood of Christ was made available for Man and not Angels.

Hebrew 9:22 says, “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

So you should not be concerned about non-Catholics, but those who do not put their trust in the finished work on the Cross, once and for all.

In John 19:30, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. When He died on the cross it was once and for all. When He said “it is finished,” the greek word was “tetellestai,” which also meant “paid in full.”

Look at Psalm 103:11-13, "

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;

Now getting back to forgiveness, compare the “Sacrifice of the Mass in and Unbloody Manner” vs. “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” Like the demons, you can believe in the Trinity, the Deity and Bodily Resurrection, but if you don’t have the blood, you will have no forgiveness. You need to put your trust in the right sacrifice.

For further information: chick.com/reading/books/218/218_01.asp

Also, you can contact me at webpastor@cedarhillbaptist.org

Peace and Grace,

Bud

 

[trogiah]

OK, now I’ve taken deep breaths and calmed down.

I’d like to get this thread going again.

Ignoring what has gone previously, I’d like to start with these
questions:

1. What does the Catholic Church teaches on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians.
2. If (mortal) sins can be forgiven by going directly to God, why is the sacrament on confession necessary? Again I would like to hear the CC’s position on this.

Thanks,
Noel.

Perhaps this is still not the answer you are looking for, since I am speaking out of what I understand Scripture to say and not out of the statements of a priest, bishop, or pope, but I think all Church leaders point to Jesus as the Messiah so if I quote Jesus, I am expressing Church teaching.

Jesus says “If you forgive others, God will forgive you, If you don’t forgive others, God will not forgive you.”

and in other places and in parables he makes clear that the fundamental requirement to obtaining forgiveness is to practice forgiveness.

So to answer your question, “Is the sacrament of reconciliation absolutely necessary?” the answer in the most absolute sense is “No.”

But (there is always a “but”), is it not better to live this life with as few burdens as possible? The sacrament of reconciliation can reduce the burdens of this life.

Consider this:

In Chapter 23 of Matthew we read

“The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses.
Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens (hard to carry) and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they will not lift a finger to move them.”

What is the power that the scribes and Pharisees have to lay burdens on peoples shoulders? It is the same power that Jesus gives to His disciples and their successors in the Church. It is a strong power but not an absolute power. It’s misuse can be survived but does create unnecessary burdens on the faithful.

The proper use of the sacrament of reconciliation can lift the many unnecessary burdens many of us carry around with us.

This seems to me to be the teaching of Scripture and the Church

Peace,

Jim

 

[jmcrae]

OK, now I’ve taken deep breaths and calmed down.

I’d like to get this thread going again.

Ignoring what has gone previously, I’d like to start with these
questions:

1. What does the Catholic Church teaches on forgiveness of sins for non-Catholic Christians.

That God can work outside the Sacraments if He so pleases.

After all, God can work any miracle, and even defy the law of gravity such that, though you always stumble, you will never fall. However, when is the last time God actually did that for you?

If not very recently or not very often, then humbly consider that God might not work outside of the Sacraments quite as frequently as we might want Him to, either.

1. If (mortal) sins can be forgiven by going directly to God, why is the sacrament on confession necessary? Again I would like to hear the CC’s position on this.

While it is certainly possible for God to work outside the Sacraments, it would be unwise of us to stake our eternity on the presumption that He in fact does so in our personal case, or presume that we are just so darned special that He would suspend His own laws for our mere convenience or merely to save us the few moments of embarassment of going to a priest for assistance in a grave matter.

On the other hand, we know definitively that He has provided the Sacraments as a gift to us His people. We therefore ought to make use of these great gifts as frequently as we conveniently can, and that while doing so, we ought to give thanks to God for providing us with the Church and with our priests.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a sure remedy for mortal sins - it just makes sense to use it.

 

[jmcrae]

PS: with regard to non-Catholics, at the Judgement Day they will not be found guilty of anything that they never had any way of knowing. But if someone knew that he needed to become Cathoilc, and that he needed to go to Confession, and through pride or laziness decided against doing this, his soul is in his own hands, and he has made his own choice.

 

[kimball1]

JMcrae,

If you died today and came before a perfect and Holy God and He asked you why He should let you in His kingdom, what would your answer be?

Bud

 

[letisia]

There is no forgiveness. The catechism teaches there is no salvation outside the church. Only thru the grace of GOD. U have to repent and confess your sins without the sacrements your sins will not be forgiven only thru his mercy. LOVE PEACE MERCY THRU THE LOVE OF GOD

 

[kimball1]

The catachism is not truth. The Bible is truth.

The Bible says in Romans 5:17, "For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16, "know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Hebrews 7:27, “Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.”

1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”

 

[jmcrae]

JMcrae,

If you died today and came before a perfect and Holy God and He asked you why He should let you in His kingdom, what would your answer be?

Bud

I would say, “I have no merits of my own, but thanks be to Jesus Christ and His Church, I have been washed clean in Baptism, regenerated in Confession, made holy in Confirmation, divinely united with Christ in Holy Communion, for I have been given Christ’s merits through the Sacraments and ordinances of His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.”

 

[jennyhay]

I converted to Catholicism from the Lutheran church. I know many godly Protestants with contrite and sincere hearts, and I know that they will be forgiven their sins by our God who is merciful and just. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

So why the necessity of the sacrament of reconciliation? For me, there is no more tangible experience of Christ than this: to say out loud to another human being (the priest) all of the evil things that I have thought and done and said, and then to have him look at me with kindness and tell me that my sins are forgiven. It just doesn’t get any better than this. The sacrament of reconciliation integrates me: the good in me can work on the remaining evil without becoming proud of it’s goodness.

I had many reasons for converting, but I may have converted if for no other reason than to have access to this sacrament. Protestants don’t know what they are missing.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Dear all,

In light of John 20:23, can someone please tell me if mortal sins can be forgiven directly by God without the need for sacramental confession and absolution? Is it enough for a dying person to repent of his/her sins and be forgiven?

John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Looking forward to hearing some responses please!

God bless,
Noel.

They could be.

They however they will not hear the words forgiving their sins, if they are forgiven, until after their physical death. Personally, I would rather hear them now while still alive on earth.

 

[Danno2281]

Noel,

First I want to say that I know only just a few Catholics that according to their own religion are going to heaven. The Catholic church dogma says that missing the “Sacrifice of the Mass in and Unbloody Manner” on Sunday (or Saturday evening, or whatever “counts”) is a mortal sin, in which upon their death, they would go directly to hell if not getting to confession. Yet these same Catholics are sure not to eat meat on Friday. (See I Timothy 4:3) They say they don’t believe that part. Sounds like the cafeteria salvation plan. (pick and choose).

The bad news is that all sin is mortal. Mortal means death dealing, and Venial means easily forgiven. The Biblical truth is that Romans 6:23 says, 'For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." As far as sins that are easily forgiven, I Corinthians 7:23, “You were bought at a price.” To say anything about Christ’s death was easy is way off. If we are to be saved, we must put our trust in Jesus Blood, which he sacrificed once and for all.

Hebrews 7:27 says, "Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” What this means is that even demons know about the Trinity, the Deity of Christ and the Bodily Resurrection. So why can’t they be saved. The answer is simple: The Blood of Christ was made available for Man and not Angels.

Hebrew 9:22 says, “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

So you should not be concerned about non-Catholics, but those who do not put their trust in the finished work on the Cross, once and for all.

In John 19:30, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. When He died on the cross it was once and for all. When He said “it is finished,” the greek word was “tetellestai,” which also meant “paid in full.”

Look at Psalm 103:11-13, "

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;

Now getting back to forgiveness, compare the “Sacrifice of the Mass in and Unbloody Manner” vs. “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” Like the demons, you can believe in the Trinity, the Deity and Bodily Resurrection, but if you don’t have the blood, you will have no forgiveness. You need to put your trust in the right sacrifice.

For further information: chick.com/reading/books/218/218_01.asp

Also, you can contact me at webpastor@cedarhillbaptist.org

Peace and Grace,

Bud

 

[nkelly]

Danno2281:
Hello Danno, if you’ve nothing to offer as regards enlightening me on the catholic Church’s teaching on forgiveness for non-catholics, then I’m not interested! As soon as I see someone posting Jack Chick links, I immediately loose interest…

God bless,
Noel.